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PvP Fire trapper, by Shadow752

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Naliworld, Mar 18, 2004.

  1. Naliworld

    Naliworld IncGamers Member

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    Very good start. My suggestions:

    1) A more detailed section on why C/S vs. C/C, and how strategies differ between the two.

    2) Merc choice when levelling the build.

    3) Offer different strategies/equipment for Fire trappers who can't afford/don't want to use the 'Enigma' runeword.
     
  2. Shadow752

    Shadow752 IncGamers Member

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    Ok I will see if I can update it as soon as I get some free time. With school and all it might be a little while though. Thanks for your suggestions.
     
  3. Evanta

    Evanta IncGamers Member

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    I haven't seen anything abt fire absorb. What happens if they happen to use rising sun against you?
     
  4. Shadow752

    Shadow752 IncGamers Member

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    Well, if they use just 1 fire absorb item, you can usaully kill them still, it will just take a longer amount of time. However, if they use something like 2 dwarfs, or a dwarf and a Rising Sun, then your just gonna do no damage. This is the case for any elemental user though. Sometimes when you encounter an absorber, you can cast cloak of shadows and mind blast them in hopes that your shadow will get the kill. I doubt you can do this with a weak shadow master, but I know my level 25 shadow can usually do it. Then theres the case where someone uses absorb and can completely mow down your shadow. In cases like that there isn't anything you can do, sadly. Please, do not let this deter your opinion on the fire trappers ability as even lightning trappers and blizzard sorcs can be absorbed.
     
  5. DeathsHand

    DeathsHand IncGamers Member

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    i was thinking about the absorb problem...why not max death sentry and put the rest into lighting sentry, you can get DS to about 2.5-3k max dmg with 11 shots and also it gives a large bonus to inferno dmg.
     
  6. D1ce

    D1ce IncGamers Member

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    I've tried Lite/Fire Trapper a while ago, and without Trap charms your damage just won't be cutting it to kill very fast. I played her alike an old v1.09 Trapper and she killed pretty good, albiet slow. My LS dmg was arounf 2k, and WoF was around 200-300 dmg, so go figure. Also you won't be able to finish the skill points/synergies until very high levels. Worth a shot though =/
     
  7. Shadow752

    Shadow752 IncGamers Member

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    Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself. You said pretty much everything I would have said right down to the .09 trapper :p Another solution to the absorb problem could be a bow merc equipped with a windforce, 160/60 ias armor, and a 120/45 ias/ed helm. These girls make short work of almost anything as their damage can get around 5k.
     
  8. D1ce

    D1ce IncGamers Member

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    Thx :surprise: well, you could also try widowmaker on switch and give them a double surprise ^_^ Either way Enigma [depending on your opinion] will probably make this build much stronger if you can use it wisely. But be careful of the mana! :\ I was going to try out a WoF/BF Trapper, but I scrapped her in the middle of normal as BladeFury only hits very low def chars. My plan was to Trap them in Full synergy WoF, then BF them for openwounds/Venom. too bad mf isnt ITD :\
     
  9. DeathsHand

    DeathsHand IncGamers Member

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    erm...this is a pvp trapper so wouldnt u use 10 trap charms..?

    ive looked it up and you can get 1k+ WoF dmg and upto 3k+ death sentry dmg with 11 shots.

    if you're talking about ur 1.09 assy then you're lying about having a 2k dmg LS (i had lvl 40 traps in 1.09 and ls never even did 1/4 of that) but if you're talking about 1.10 then you're WoF dmg is low (only 200-300 when u can get 900+ easily).

    btw remember we're talking about pvp pls, in pure pvp guides there isnt really a need for how fast/slow you can kill in a pvm situation but it should be geared totally towards pvp which is the entire point. in a pvp situation the average lightning trapper had 8k dmg and can kill anyone with 75% res and no absorb in less then 8 hits generally so with 3k light traps it should take less then 20 which in reality isnt that much considering mindblast.
     
  10. reno666

    reno666 IncGamers Member

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    I think he's talking about playing style, as in using .09 trapper tactics/equipment in .10 Correct me if I'm wrong D1ce.

    For some reason, a lot of new trappers seem to forget about MB these days. They don't even bother to learn the cast rates.
     
  11. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Okay, I played Trapsin a lot in 1.09. Mainly focused on the plaint trapsin, but later on I geared together a pretty awesome C/C Hybrid too.

    I would say that Lightning stuns just as fine as Wake of Fire.

    And you're way off about Wolves. A wolf can acctually gear up on FHR, and get a whooping 2 frames FHR. That is more than enough to break out of WoF lock. I did it with my wolf and won vs. most 1.09 Trappers.

    In 1.09 almost every trapper used WoF. Neglecting the range and shots of the Lightning Sentry. My Hybrid acctually whooped Trappers in Traps vs. Traps duells because of this. That and a level 35+ MB...

    105% FCR, fastest trap laying speed with chosen weapon and any trap would be quite enough though. Although a C/C with +3 traps / +3 <specific skill> claws would be able to reach level 50+ traps. And that's damage. Not mentioniong the advantage of claw block, since you have only 60 skill pts. for full synnergies you can easily max both MB and Claw Block.

    I know damage on Fire Traps are a bit low in comparison (but average should be fairly high), consider using Shadow Skillers too. A small comparison:

    Trap Skillers Boosts the following skills
    ------------------------------------
    Chosen Trap (Inferno / WoF / Fire Blast)
    (Blade Shield (usually kept at one if you have %-chance to cast or similiar))

    Shadow Charms Boost
    ------------------------------------
    Claw Block
    Fade
    BoS
    Shadow Master
    Mind Blast
    Psychic Hammer

    You can, however, keep shadow skillers to pre-buff fade or bos. Sometimes though, you might want to switch mid fight. Claw Block can't be pre-buffed, shadow can, but if it dies you'll re-cast at 10 levels lower. Hammer can get some nice magic damage at higher levels. Not enough to kill, but it's a click and use kind of attack that always hits, it's pretty nice to get people to back off if you're in a situation where MB doesn't cut it. MBs damage is physical too, so vs. 50% PDR it doesn't do much.

    Just tossing in a bunch of arguments of ideas into the picture. Feel free to obliterate and flame them :)
     
  12. D1ce

    D1ce IncGamers Member

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    Okay my original post was as follows:

    And she was for PvP. The v1.09 was a playing style comparison. I did not use 10 Trap Charms, let along a full inventory of charms since I was too poor at the beginning of v1.1, thus my damage was low. However, it was enough to kill most opponents, albiet slowly --as stated in post. So yes Reno you were right. I did state in the post and here again that I killed slowly, which would imply that I had low damage. I hadn't even maxed my WoF synergies, althought I will admit I would never hit 900 dmg without trap charms.

    Kaffe:
    As for LS stunning as much as WoF, I'd say that they are about the same now. Somehow I think that WoF got nerfed in the patch, or people just got fast enough FHR that you have to MB them more now or else not even WoF will keep them stunlocked anymore. It's mainly the MB knocking back that is stunning now, and LS simply does more damage and pierces so is superior vs high FHR opponents.

    I remember playing around with Psychic Hammer in v1.09 and also in v1.1, are you sure the damage is magical? Also it doesn't always knockback, so I wouldn't recommend it in a pinch. You could most definately be right though. If your on USEast preferably Ladder we can test some stuff out, /w *Physical_Mage just leave your acct name too.
     
  13. reno666

    reno666 IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, I'd tend to agree but the WoF is still faster and area is wider so in split-second decisions, WoF still used more.

    This part I don't quite understand. Are you referring to the guide's build or your C/C hybrid? Assuming you get to lvl. 85, maxing 3 fire skills, you're left with about 30 points which you need to divide b/w MB or WB. How do you max both (unless you level to 95, of course, youch).

    If you do manage to find 2x the claws you're referring to (+3 traps/+3 WoF ?), you'd still need 7-10x trap charms to reach lvl 50. How do you reach 105% fcr ? :scratch: If using Mage and Arachnid and, maybe, a crafted amulet, best you get is 50% fcr.
     
  14. D1ce

    D1ce IncGamers Member

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    I have a +2 20% fcr ammu o_O
     
  15. reno666

    reno666 IncGamers Member

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    Can I say hate you :drool:

    Was thinking with Mage + Arachnid + ur crafted ammy + 20 fcr diadem = 80 fcr. With some mana charms, this would be, in some circles, called a Good Thing.
     
  16. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Well, this totally depends on. With a lots of FR/W, alternatively high FCR and Teleport you can keep barbs at bay, and just let Lightning Sentry do the trick. However, I tend to keep them at bay with Mind Blast, and keep Lightning Sentrys firing. Since they fire 10 shots, you have more time to concentrate on Mind Blast, instead of just mashing up the buttons laying traps and MBing over and over again.

    The range of Lightning Sentry (about Full-Screen) helps greatly vs. Sniping Amas and Necros. Most necros tend to beleive traps can't touch them (surprise). That's where I like Lightning Sentry.

    Magefists, Arachnid's, Stealth, 20% Amu, Rare Circlet, 2 x FCR rings /w ~100 mana would equal 125% FCR, easily making any part of the gear exchangable. Now, I wouldn't really recommend this set-up. Skills are of the essence for a Pure C/C trappers, and that much FCR is sacrificing a lot of block. And since 99% of all people now a days want, plan to get, is using Enigma Stealth is out of the picture. Although, I still beleive any trapper can take a teleporting class, and a few leagues here at Europe have rules that nerf tele-users big time.

    Now, this all depends on gear and preference, it was more random ravings and idea spamming :p.

    FCR is mainly for the shield/weapon set-up Trapper. With 105% FCR you will rarely need claw block either way, since most caster classes have pretty crappy FHR. And vs. melee you'll need your block high.

    Only reason to go C/C really is to show off with level 50 traps.

    In the issue of maxing MB or Claw Block. With enough +skills you don't have to max out Claw Block, just get it around 60% block. Rest goes into Mind Blast. With crappy FCR (if you pick that) you probably won't rely as heavily on MB either way, you probably want to deal your damage through those traps...
     
  17. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Isn't there a condition that you have to take like 1/10 of your life in damage to go into hit recovery. Or something like that. In that case we got a pretty strong argument. Higher PvP reduction and all that...

    I can agree on WoF being good for stun, heck I kept a druid and a pally on bay with WoF in a TvT game (pallys and wolves turned out to have the greatest natural FHR in the game...).

    I still Like LS for those sniper fights, and barbs, as they're so god damn fast with high incr. speed. Unless you tele or run very fast they'll just come up and WW you if you stick with WoF.

    I'm on Europe :(. And truth told, I haven't even built a trapper in 1.10 yet. I'm just basing it on old research and some cold, hard logic.

    Hammer deals half physical, half magic damage. Try to use hammer in a few fights and see what happens. Usually though, Mind Blast is better. Don't know if they fixed the MB bug though, or does it still leave that swirly that causes the player to go into hit recovery for even the slightest amount of damage? In that case, MB once, hammer on for the rest...

    A few tips, I usually had Shock Web on Left Side, some times you accidentally click attack (when you're out of Coffee basicly :p). Shock Web + MB + LS, not much but something more. Fire have to use the Fire Blast there (if you can that is...).
     
  18. reno666

    reno666 IncGamers Member

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    The thing is, this is a WoF build :evil: That said, against high r/w opponents, WoF is the better trap to use b/c LS doesn't seem to track fast moving objects very well. This is only my experience and humble opinion, of course.


    Off-topic: Some trapper hurt my 95 resist char. the other day with Shock Web, probably b/c of -resist facets ? If this really works, SW could be the de facto lightning trap against melee opponents :idea:
     
  19. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Shock Web has a nice coverage, it makes nice damage with synnergies (considering how wide spread it is). I can imagine it being pretty effective. I think -resistances affect shock web, since it's not counted as a minion (guessing though, who knows what Blizzard has done). So facets would acctually pay off there.

    And LS has a hard time hitting fast-paced targets, in that case WoF really has an advantage. And as you said this is a fire guide, and we should probably try to discuss how to push the WoF sin forward instead of raising the Lightning Sin to higher levels :p. But, to counter your statement, that's what Mind Blast is for, to keep the opponent pinned down. With 105% FCR and an 8K lighting sentry there isn't much to debate about. Mind Blast + Lightning will win over Lower Damage + Lower FCR. Or even the same FCR and Lower Damage (probably). Only thing that can save one there is that WoF hits so many times more that it acctually makes up for missing damage.
     
  20. DeathsHand

    DeathsHand IncGamers Member

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