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pvp bone question

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by fleeflicker, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. fleeflicker

    fleeflicker IncGamers Member

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    pvp bone question

    I was thinking how someone who was trying to create a pefect bone necro would go about it...is it possible...and how much dmg does your necro really need to be able to kill anyone?

    If you max teeth 20 bone spear 20 bone spirit 20 bone wall 20 bone prison 20
    1 skele 1 mage 1 clay golem 1 blood golem 1 iron golem 1 revive 1 amp 1 iron maiden 1 deceprify and the 2 on the prerequisites and 1 on bone armor...

    with the 15 extra skills from all 3 difficulty levels ancients,radament,den of evil, izzy you would have to be at least what level to achieve this?

    any help would be great
     
  2. oneBlast

    oneBlast IncGamers Member

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    More than you actually can have.

    You can get 110 skill points at level 98 with the 12 skill quaests (ancients don't give additional skill point, they just give enough exp for you to lvl up)
    It takes 100 skill points to max bone spells, so you can dump the rest into, summons/curses, as you see it fit.

    http://soulesschild.hiveports.com/necguide/


    I was about to link you to soulesschild's guide (one of the best around) but the link doesn't seem to work anymore?

    does anyone know why is that?

    Cheers
     
  3. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    you only need to max teeth, spear,spirit,wall, spear, and prison (preferably max teeth last for more BA physical absorb in my opinion, some like to max teeth for pvp against sorcs)
    get one point into skele,mage,clay golem, blood golem, iron golem, revive (use these as tanks and get more skele/mage with skillers)
    there is really no point in getting curses unless you're a summoner because you really don't need them since you'll be teleporting with enigmga and spamming spears...

    in items aim for 125 fcr, 86 fhr? (don't remember), pnb gcs, torch and anni can help too if you can afford

    you can kill in hell without any skillers but it takes a lot longer than usual, skillers boost your dmg from around 1.5k spirit dmg (no skillers) to around 4k dmg (lots of skillers)
     
  4. zooply

    zooply IncGamers Member

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    ite sorry, you probably know way more about bonemancers than me (seeing as i never made one lol) but still gotta question some stuff:
    1)that's 120 points, unless you meant those are the only ones worth maxing?
    2)tanks for pvm, or 'meatshields' for when you tele pvp? ig for the thorns & runeword auras? also why no points in masteries or s res then?
    3)most i can see being worthless for a boner, but what of decrep?

    and ya 86 fhr is right =)

    working on my novamancer, & already thinking of making a pvp boner myself actually lol (or maybe a foh'er, or smiter for ubers)
     
  5. Darksteel

    Darksteel IncGamers Member

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    Rough outline of my nec (best pvp char i've made, and I've made PLENTY)

    3/20 nec circlet w/shael
    enigma
    wizzy w/res/stat/-req jewel (hoto is very overrated)
    Stormshield w/p cham (need cbf for windies)
    Magefist or Trangs
    arach
    Fcr ammy
    fcr ring
    SoJ
    Treks

    9 pnb gcs, enough fhr to hit the 86 bp, rest are lifers. Anni and torch of course. 10 +5 res scs w/life or mana. CtA and spirit on switch.

    Stats: Enough str for gear, rest into vita. Max block aint worth it IMO.

    Max skills in this order: Spear and spirit, teeth (very useful), bone prison (beefs armor and helps vs. zons and most smiter types), rest into bone wall. Make sure you have at least one into amp (for team duels), IM (for bm), clay golem, mastery, and summon resist.

    With this set-up you will hit the essential 125 fcr and 86 fhr breakpoints, have stacked resists in hell,

    With this set up you hit the 125 fcr and 86 fhr breakpoints, have stacked resist in hell, 43% physical reduction, and have over a 4k spear and spirit and 1k teeth (useful for stunning until namelock).

    This set up also gives massive sorbing options vs sorcs, which will naturally be any boners hardest duels besides windys. Take off the SS and SoJ and switch in the following:

    Lightning: 4 Lo monarch and high sorbing wisp
    Fire: 4 Vex monarch and dwarf
    Cold: 4 p Saph monarch and raven.

    These set-ups will give you 95% resistance as well as well as some sorb, making these attacks useless. I HIGHLY encourage you to duel without this though and only use it as a last resort against a bmer, as this will make you better in the long run.

    If you want I can go into more detail and maybe even write a guide (I know there's like no good boner guides out there) but this should be a good start.
     
  6. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    Answers that i have to offer that may be completely wrong...:grin:

    1) ideally, those are what you want to max, usually i max spear,spirit,prison,wall than get the meat shields (i should be around lvl 77 for this including the quest that give me goods, eg den, izzy, radament, bird, tome, etc if i didn't list any) than i start on teeth (i max prison and wall first because i want extra ba absorbing to physical cause they're mainly a pvp boner's weakness in my opinion, but you could max teeth first and choose between prison and wall to max for those pesky sorcs and teeths stun)
    2) you don't need any summon resist because its a complete waste, they're just to tank not do dmg over time with the skele, mage, and revive. you should have enough skillers to get atleast 5-8 skele/mage and forgot how many revives (12ish) get BIG revives, like the big minotaur things and urdars so that when you tele with your skele,mages, and revives they won't move from you unless you walk/run instead of teleing again. (try it out, its called minion stacking or something, minion glitch... try it out with a messed up necro.. lol just remember to get big revives like urdars so that they don't move including your merc and golem)... you'll also just want to use a clay golem because they have the most life out of all golems and whenever they get hit, they have a chance to slow. i usually go for an act2 nm holy freeze merc because of the slow it has just incase i cant aim correctly, it slows them down...:thumbsup: (the "tanks" can be used for both pvp and pvm)
    3) i've never had any experience with decrep, but i know that in classic, necros that use decrep are pretty good. i've seen people cast decrep on sorcs and other casters but i'm not sure if it slows down their tele rate... good luck on this one

    PS: ask for the guy above me's guide... he's probably more pro than me considering his items...:wink3:

    oya... darksteel feel like giving frees considering you're so rich with them pnb gcs and those items...i can always switch to east...:shocked:
     
  7. hisakix

    hisakix IncGamers Member

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    1.) Why would you need the Cannot Be Frozen from Cham? FCR not affected?
    2.) Against phy dmg opponents max block is worth every point spent in dex. Every vit point translates to 2HP for the nec, and that's a pretty low return. Since most pvp necs will want to duel all types of builds and char types, why not max block and reduce 75% of all melee/ranged attacks to zero (excluding the obvious ones, smite, cs, etc.)?
     
  8. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    1) i'm confused about the cannot be frozen cham and fcr statement dude... where did that come from
    2) some necros like to go full vit for caster fights, but you can also go full vit against melee too, its just harder to fight them with unless you know what you're doing... most people go full vit because since you're a necro, you'll be teleporting a lot and you usually won't get hit, if you get hit, you teleport away if you have the chance anyway... in my experience as a vit necro, i tend to stay as far away from the enemy as possible while still being able to see them on minimap so if they decide to rush me, i have a chance to tele/run away... that is if they're not desynching... both vit and block build for necro can go against any build but its a preference of taste when it comes to this...
     
  9. soul killer

    soul killer Banned

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    1) Being frozen sucks, reduces fr/w by alot which is needed for dueling windys and other build, teleing isnt the only thing bone necs can do.

    2) Max Block is pretty useful is your dueling melee builds and zons, get some PnB lifers and youll be good vs. all.

    My 2 cents.
     
  10. zooply

    zooply IncGamers Member

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    blech i guess my last post didn't work lol. anyways:

    1)i meant summon mastery & resist just to let them live a bit longer lol. i don't personally care too much for the idea of using summons simply for the fact of getting them every time i die in pvp =(. also you didn't answer 'why iron golem' lol
    2)nah it doesn't slow casting i believe, but it's still nice to toss at some melees ^_^
     
  11. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    1) you have to ACTUALLY put points into summon mastery for it to work with the summons. say you have lvl 1 summon mastery and 1 into raise skele and you have +20 to skills, it means that you can summon 8 skele, but you only get benefit of lvl 1 summon mastery... if you're going to use summon resist, or summon mastery you're basically a summon/bone hybrid

    and what were you asking about the iron golem? couldn't find anything about you asking about them, its just a prerequiste for revives in the tele/minion glitch
     
  12. zooply

    zooply IncGamers Member

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    ah. you're right on the iron golem. my bad lol

    i don't think that's necessarily true about summon mastery though. skills like that aren't like synergies. they're direct boosts. why have +2 s. mastery on marrows if it only benefits from hard points? or the same with a leoric
     
  13. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    well... not sure about the s mastery though, but i do know that you have better points to spend on the bone synergies.. eg. the synergy you didn't max yet for bone tree... you get the other in summon trees because they're required prerequiste or because you're actually using them. most of the time they don't die either unless you get stunned and can't tele, which shouldn't happen very often if you keep your distance so there's i find there's no point in getting s resist or s mastery...

    than again, its your build, play the way you want to play
     
  14. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    Did not read all the reply's but did see darks reply.

    The cham is SS helps your chr better then not having it (try it first then you may change your mind. It helps you walk/run out since teleing will be useless once stunned.

    As for max block IMO and I will stress this in general. If you only duel casters then go vita. If you duel any good melee you will need max block. 3/4 of attacks miss along with your PDR and BA helping a ton.

    Dark, how much more life does a vita build really get? With the right FCR rings, etc. adding to your str and dex it should be possible to only have to add about 150 into dex, that is 300 life before BA so, what, a difference of only 500 life on average (around 3500 for vita build, maybe a tad higher if they are using 100 life ammy, etc.). That is nothing IMO.

    Ok I am done

    GoGo necs
     
  15. zooply

    zooply IncGamers Member

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    well ya. i guess it's a personal preference thing:smiley: i threw the 2 points in for g. mastery & summon res. on my novamancer just because besides my merc, that fire golem is the only tank i got lmao. figured a little boost to him would help with some pvp & pvm. but i gotta agree with you on revives. they're nice tanks even without mastery & s res. and who doesn't love teleing around with some urdars or souls:grin: btw, you mention big creatures like those minotaurs & balrogs. i'm assuming because of their size they're cover you much better when you tele than say a corrupt rogue?
     
  16. Darksteel

    Darksteel IncGamers Member

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    My only problem with max block on a necro is this:

    What duels is having max block going to be noticeable? Really only BvC's and some zons.

    What are a necros hardest duels? Sosa, windy, and maybe a good trapper.

    BvC's, while generally feared, usally ain't too bad with a boner. There are some very good BvC's out there that will give you problems but if you play it defensively it gives you a slight advantage against these guys. Tele into spirit fields the same way a windy would tele into his nados against a bvc. You also have a recastable bone armor if he does manage to get a ww in, and you won't be caught in block lock once he does. And zons, well, you'll just get the hang of them. Again you have bone armor plus clay golem will minion stack onto you to absorb even more damage. Just don't stay in one place but be agressive. And if worse comes to worse just bone prison her if in a pub for instant el-cheap-o win. Same for BvC, just IM him and let him whack your clay golem if the pubber is ticking you off.

    Now on the opposite side having max block can take away about 800 or so hp from a necro. Necros usally run anywhere from 2-3.5k life, some good ones hit can 4k (though usually with a hoto's spirit, and against I'm not a fan of hoto on necros).

    When you look at it having max block takes away about a third or quarter of their total hp, which hurts them in their tougher duels to help them in their easier duels.

    Also the cham in the SS is strictly for windies. Tele-ing against windies is suicidal, and your gonna be running. Windies are IMO your hardest duel. Use teeth to knock out summons while running and avoiding nados and then snipe em with spear. Sounds easy, but you gotta be good to beat even an average windy.
     
  17. Homie G

    Homie G IncGamers Member

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    Well, personally, i wouldnt do too much on the summon tree if I were you. I made a necro similar to the one you're thinking of making, and I was wishing i didnt put points into the summons. Some people think that having summons for meat shields is good, but I dont really need them. I decided to remake my necro and the one i'm making now is much better. This is the build i followed

    First skill point, one in bone armor, dont touch it again till later after this

    Teeth: Maxed
    Corpse Explosion: 1
    Bone Spear: 20
    Bone Spirit: 20
    Bone Wall: 20
    Bone Prison: 20

    as I went along, I put a point into amp damage, weaken, and terror so I could get Decrepify, then put one point into that. Just put points into them as you can get them.

    Then just dump the rest of the points after that into bone armor. I found it more worth it to put the points into bone armor as it makes your wall, prison, and teeth stronger. The only skills I touched on my necro on the summon tree is 1 point in clay golem and 1 point in golem mastery. With extra skill bonuses it makes a great meat shield for only 2 points invested in it. You might wanna put points into summons just for the hell of it, but make sure that you think about the extra damage you could be doing
     
  18. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    nah, i mention big creatures to revive because and ONLY because of the minion stack. when you tele, they're so huge that your other minions (eg. skele and amges) don't move unless you decide to walk... but most tele simultaneously so that makes it even harder to hit you because they're all on top of each other basically... like i said earlier, get a messed up necro you made (if you did) and try it out with teleport and urdars with skeles and all

    oya... and homie g what lvl are you? seems like you already maxed the synergies... and bone armor is not a synergy for any of your offensive bone skills (spear,teeth,spirit)... thats already 100 skill points dude, and 4 into curses for your decrep... than a gumby... 105 skill points used (unless i counted wrong... hehehe) and that is CRAZYYYY i will never be able to get any of my chars up that high:cry: ... not a hardcore grinder like most i guess... not to be offensive, but you made it sound like you had a char that maxed them all out so i was just wondering...



     

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