PvM WW: IK > BOTD.. personal experience This is not intended to start a flame war, just to post my personal experiences from someone who has sampled the grass on both sides of the fence. I've played both barbs extensively and I have to say that the IK set just freaking totally owns BOTD. I'm not even going to bother talking about the pros and cons of a zerker/concentrate build, since I find killing once monster at a time insanely tedious. It's just not my thing, sorry. No, i'm not going to talk about PvP either, though I imagine BOTD > IK in that arena. First, some background. I spent a lot of time collecting this gear to make the godliest non-IK barb I could think of. I had a 392% eth BOTD Ghost Spear. Fastest whirl around, godly range, crazy damage, 150-1141 two handed. I had people try and tell me a War Pike was a better weapon; I just laughed in their faces. I put this evil little spear on a barb wearing Arreats, Chains of Honor, LoH, Gore Riders (there's a story behind that), Verdungo's, Nature's Peace, Highlords and a Raven Frost. I'd say he was pretty godly. He tore through demons like nothing i've ever seen, one-whirl killing hell Travincal pretty much, 10+k Berserk and 9.5k whirlwind with a might merc. I probably could have had a better setup with dual eth BOTD CB's/Zerkers, but in a pinch, a Ghost Spear was a good trial run and didn't cost me quite as much Zerker's would definately have had better resale value, though. At the end of the day though, for me.. IK set totally owns BOTD in PvM. I sold the spear yesterday for sojs, and am not afraid to say that I am TOTALLY happy that I went back to the IK set for all my whirlwind needs. Why? --> IK set is pure str/vit. You never have to worry about allocating points to dex, ever. That means more damage (str) or more life (vit) depending on how you want to play it. You hit just fine anyway. My BOTD spearie had less life even though he wore a 39/12 verdungo's. I'll take my 4k life IK barb any day, thanks. --> IK set has Crushing Blow. You really don't know what this means until you try and do the clone with your BOTD ghost spear and NO CB. My IK barb kills the clone WAY, WAY faster, and believe me, I fight the clone regularly. I was forced to remove my very high MF war travs and replace them with gore riders just so my ghost spearie could compete with my IK barb in killing speed. --> IK maul has insane elemental damage. Often times I would whirl through PI's, kill them, and then go "hey, that took a second longer than normal" and realise i'd just butchered a PI. With BOTD, you really, really, really notice PI's, because you have no elemental adders to kill them "accidentally". My biggest pain as a BOTD spearie was a pack of PI mana draining ghosts. With IK, I just whirl through freezing, chilling and killing with elemental damage even though they're PI, cause they have such low life. With BOTD, I HAD to use Berserk, which meant I got mobbed, could only handle one at a time, and in some situations had to drink some potions. --> IK maul freezes targets. This leads to shattered targets, which means no resurrection, which means you can do away with Nature's Peace. My BOTD barb pretty much HAD to wear Nature's Peace to take on huge packs of ressurecting minions, they were too annoying for words. With the IK set, half of the stuff is smashed, and the rest is immobile (HFT + 2 means you freeze almost everything you encounter except bosspacks). --> BOTD's "poison nova when you kill an enemy" doesn't activate from deaths caused by WW. thx, gg. --> No magic find. Whatsoever. IK gives about 100mf almost incidentally from the helm (with ptopaz) and the boots (partial set bonus). If i'd tried to cram MF on my BOTD barb I would have had to give up CoH (bye bye +2 skills/damage to demons/65 resists), boots (bye bye CB/DS), amulet.. you get the idea. MF is pretty much included in the IK set. --> IK set maxes your resists without even trying. With just a single pt in Nat resists, you pretty much get there once you've equipped the full set. An Annihilus pretty much maxes out the rest of your resists. I don't even want to think of how my BOTD barb would have worked out without CoH, it was pretty essential to getting my resists to max. And CoH is not cheap. So what was good about my BOTD? Absolutely insane damage. But that's it. If that's all you want, good for you (BOTD strikes me as extremely well suited to PvP). Oh, the ghost spear looked GREAT on paper for me. But my IK set just added so many crazy bonuses, so many crowd control features, helpful PI things, magic find etc that I ended up regretting the day I ever socketed those runes in that damned ghost spear. A BOTD spearie probably would have been okay if I hadn't already had a IK barb for all my whirling needs. But since I had IK, another whirlbarb was just redundant, and he wasn't even as much fun. He also almost never found any uniques, as opposed to my IK baba for whom things seemed to drop constantly with just 100 MF. You don't notice all the little things about the set until you don't have them. Considering that IK armor is about 1000000 times easier to get than a good ethereal BOTD in a godly weapon.. i'd say go with IK every single time, folks. Of course, that's just my opinion, and it's largely based on my experience playing whirlybarbs (and ONLY whirlybarbs) PvM. Trading away my BOTD Ghost Spear I must have seen some of the stupidest BOTD sockets ever (eg, non ethereal BOTD colossus blade.. BOTD phase blade.. BOTD in exceptional ethereals..). In the end, I sold it to someone who needed it for their merc, and i'm damn glad it's gone. Feel free to post your experiences here, too.