Pure vita BvC vs stated?

[SicHalo]

Pure vita BvC vs stated?

Hmm i just got an idea actually quite recently weither or not to switch to a pure vita bvc. As most have you seen and known i have been using BvC for a while now and from what i have seen i rarely gear change now in pubs and play mostly pubs very few privates and to stat to use a forti seems a bit of a waste of time now i think about it.

When i first used pure vita i did not have a clue what i was doing, my gear sucked etc so it was not effiecent. But i think i came a long way from this i have decent charm gear etc and i was wondering which would be the best configuration to try now?

Hopefully going pure vita might improve my skills more.

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[Ce Olba]

Hmm i just got an idea actually quite recently weither or not to switch to a pure vita bvc. As most have you seen and known i have been using BvC for a while now and from what i have seen i rarely gear change now in pubs and play mostly pubs very few privates and to stat to use a forti seems a bit of a waste of time now i think about it.

A waste? So, you really value those 220-315 life that much? I wouldn't say it's worth much, specially since with 33* 20's you are at 6262 life with 63/47 stats. With 30/20 you would be at 6835.

I've used three BvCs so far: 54/49 one (meaning 30 str belt), 65/49 (the regular setup) and a pure-vita one. The worst of them was without a competition the pure vita one.

Why would you even want to make pure vita? You only gain a very little amount of life. If you want/need the life, you could just use Hoto + CtA and have 6492 life. Of course, that's with Ravens. The level, however, is 90. At 95, you would have 6529 with the 63/47 and 7103 with pure vita. With Hoto + Cta you would now have 6769 life. Hell, at lvl 99 with 63/47 you would have 6735 life with dual Dooms and 6982 with Hoto + CtA.

So again, I ask: why? You don't need the extra life and you can get to quite high lifes even with 63/47. Hell, with 53/34 (the lowest possible on EUSCNL), you would have 6749 life at lvl 95 with dual Dooms and 6997 with Hoto + CtA. At lvl 99, you would now be at 6955 life with Dooms or 7211 with Hoto + CtA compared to 7309 with pure vita.

 

[SicHalo]

thanks alittle sense got slapped back into me hmm i kinda see the point, i was later today going to re-equip my pure vita barb to see what its like but hmm i might just keep it like it is with some stats.

 

[mainaman]

Hmm i just got an idea actually quite recently weither or not to switch to a pure vita bvc. As most have you seen and known i have been using BvC for a while now and from what i have seen i rarely gear change now in pubs and play mostly pubs very few privates and to stat to use a forti seems a bit of a waste of time now i think about it.

When i first used pure vita i did not have a clue what i was doing, my gear sucked etc so it was not effiecent. But i think i came a long way from this i have decent charm gear etc and i was wondering which would be the best configuration to try now?

Hopefully going pure vita might improve my skills more.

Any thoughts or ideas?

thats a good idea,
if you play right you dont need forti against hammerdins, you dont need to boost phys dmg of ga's. If you need extra dmg use guillaumes with 40/15 in it.
I am making a pure vita bvc too ,for pubing.
If you go the 63/47 way, when using fortitude, you drop 400+ in lufe which for pubing is not little at all.
In pub when you have several classes hostile to you , you cant usde forti ,and you know why.
Pure vita is better for pubing, 63/47 is hands down better for priv dueling.

 

[SicHalo]

thats a good idea,
if you play right you dont need forti against hammerdins, you dont need to boost phys dmg of ga's. If you need extra dmg use guillaumes with 40/15 in it.
I am making a pure vita bvc too ,for pubing.
If you go the 63/47 way, when using fortitude, you drop 400+ in lufe which for pubing is not little at all.
In pub when you have several classes hostile to you , you cant usde forti ,and you know why.
Pure vita is better for pubing, 63/47 is hands down better for priv dueling.

hmm both u and Olba have valid points but i was also thinking like how u mentioned for pubing and i think Mortojos even said the same thing for pub dueling.

 

[mainaman]

hmm both u and Olba have valid points but i was also thinking like how u mentioned for pubing and i think Mortojos even said the same thing for pub dueling.

really if you think about it you can kill hammerdins with enigma on ,just as effectively. Most of the pub hammerdins are pretty much no contest anyway. I use widow+enigma in pubs and it works fine, if i see them charge too much i just nl-tele-ww in the direction they are going and it works well almost every time.
You really don't need fortitude that much, imo.

 

[Ce Olba]

If you go the 63/47 way, when using fortitude, you drop 400+ in lufe which for pubing is not little at all.
In pub when you have several classes hostile to you , you cant usde forti ,and you know why.
Pure vita is better for pubing, 63/47 is hands down better for priv dueling.

The 400 life that you lose at lvl 95 is very little. Here's a demonstration:
400 damage in PvP ->2353 before PvP. Now, if it was physical, it would be 4706 damage, which is quite low (Barbarians reach 6000-7000 with Grief). Now, if it was elemental with 75% resistances, that would mean 9412 damage. What kind of an elemental caster has that kind of damage? A FoHer might, but that's it. Now, if you had 85% resistances, it would mean 15686 damage, quite close to the damage of a Trapper. Now, if you have 90% resistances, it would mean 23529 damage, quite close to the average of a Lightning Sorc or the maximum of a FB sorc.

In short, that 400 life is damn meaningless except for three occasions: versus FB and Lightning sorcs, versus Trappers and versus FoHers.

And you can easily beat all of the four even without the 400 life. So why would you not risk it?

@Sic, yes, Morotsjos did, in his late time, start to talk about how pure vita > 63/47 for pubbing. However, it's the same as using a 63/47 without changing gear. So, why not risk that 400 life and have the flexibility in case you feel like doing private duels at a time?

 

[akumaxxyz]

imo pure vita bvc is best, you dont need those other stuff like fort,widow to beat anyone if your good enough. widow only maybe against exceptionally very good hdins. nothing like 7k +life barb go nuts on sors hehehe

 

[mainaman]

The 400 life that you lose at lvl 95 is very little. Here's a demonstration:
400 damage in PvP ->2353 before PvP. Now, if it was physical, it would be 4706 damage, which is quite low (Barbarians reach 6000-7000 with Grief). Now, if it was elemental with 75% resistances, that would mean 9412 damage. What kind of an elemental caster has that kind of damage? A FoHer might, but that's it. Now, if you had 85% resistances, it would mean 15686 damage, quite close to the damage of a Trapper. Now, if you have 90% resistances, it would mean 23529 damage, quite close to the average of a Lightning Sorc or the maximum of a FB sorc.

In short, that 400 life is damn meaningless except for three occasions: versus FB and Lightning sorcs, versus Trappers and versus FoHers.

And you can easily beat all of the four even without the 400 life. So why would you not risk it?

@Sic, yes, Morotsjos did, in his late time, start to talk about how pure vita > 63/47 for pubbing. However, it's the same as using a 63/47 without changing gear. So, why not risk that 400 life and have the flexibility in case you feel like doing private duels at a time?

well he has 2 barbs as he said , so if he has the gear why not try it?
even though your argument about the life loss being insignificant compared to flexibility is correct, in pubs where you have ffa situations pretty much more life is more desirable imo, just my opinion.

 

[Ce Olba]

well he has 2 barbs as he said , so if he has the gear why not try it?
even though your argument about the life loss being insignificant compared to flexibility is correct, in pubs where you have ffa situations pretty much more life is more desirable imo, just my opinion.

The "more life" you gain will only save you a single hit at best. And if you need that single hit to beat your opponents, something is not right.

imo pure vita bvc is best, you dont need those other stuff like fort,widow to beat anyone if your good enough. widow only maybe against exceptionally very good hdins. nothing like 7k +life barb go nuts on sors hehehe

A BvC with a as-strict-as-possible stat setup and lvl 99 can go over or close to 7000 life without prebuff. Hell, even a lvl 95 63/47 BvC can get 7084 life with a 5 bo helm and CtA and Hoto.

Also, you should know that being prepared is half of the battle. It's not cool to say "You are too good so I cannot duel you." It's an excuse.

 

[akumaxxyz]

The "more life" you gain will only save you a single hit at best. And if you need that single hit to beat your opponents, something is not right.

you make it sound like your suppose to win in every kind of situation with a bvc
.
sometimes that life is enough to let you win vs the best kind of duelers. a good example would be boner vs bvc, where both of you have little life left and that life will let you survive a spray of teeth.

 

[Ce Olba]

you make it sound like your suppose to win in every kind of situation with a bvc

.
BvCs do win in most situations with the right gear and player.

sometimes that life is enough to let you win vs the best kind of duelers. a good example would be boner vs bvc, where both of you have little life left and that life will let you survive a spray of teeth.

it will allow you to take about 0.5 more spirits, meaning if you are extremely lucky, you will have be alive for 1 more spirit. Again, if you need that 1 hit to win, something is wrong. You shouldn't be in a situation where you need the extra 400ish life to win, specially since it can, at most, take a single hit more. Or what PvP attack do you know that does either one of these:
I. 1176 magical damage
II. 2353 physical damage
III.4706 - 23529 elemental damage depending on resistances

Two two first are right out of the question, leaves you with elemental damage. Now, which ones? FoHer, Trapper, Lightning Sorc, FB Sorc, Blizzard Sorc. Now, you should be able to beat all of those without the extra 400 life. If you cannot, either you are simply not skilled or you're playing stupidly or are simply worse.

And if you need more life, level up. 1 level = +53 life. So, from lvl 90 to 99 you gain +473 life. So, at lvl 99 with 63/47 you would be equal to a pure vita lvl 90 individual, lifewise. DS-wise, OW-wise, skillpoint-wise you would be superior.

 

[mainaman]

The "more life" you gain will only save you a single hit at best. And if you need that single hit to beat your opponents, something is not right.

are you saying you never get hit so you can afford less life?
An how come if i want more life instead the ability to wear fortitude,totaly useless armor in pub environment, something is not right, elaborate pls?

FoHer, Trapper, Lightning Sorc, FB Sorc, Blizzard Sorc. Now, you should be able to beat all of those without the extra 400 life. If you cannot, either you are simply not skilled or you're playing stupidly or are simply worse.

so in a game with all these dueling against you you will never die to them?

 

[akumaxxyz]

LOL. i dont want to argue with someone who does not play d2 pvp anymore, you can theory craft all day everyday its not of my buisness.

your point about leveling up to get the life as a pure vita barb with the stat build is too extreme, as no one will have the patience to lvl to 99,

 

[Ce Olba]

are you saying you never get hit so you can afford less life?

No, I'm simply saying that the 1 extra hit won't mean anything unless you totally suck or are outmatched by your opponent. How many time do you end up with 0 life versus trappers, fohers and sorcs? At that time, it's extremely unlikely that the extra 400 life would do anything. At most, it will take 1 more hit, but most likely not even that.

An how come if i want more life instead the ability to wear fortitude,totaly useless armor in pub environment, something is not right, elaborate pls?

I mean something is not right if you need that 400 more life to win duels. Also, you can gain that 400 life with 8 level-ups.

so in a game with all these dueling against you you will never die to them?

If you duel against multiple characters, the most likely outcome is that either you come very much victorious or then you die quickly. You see, a team of an FB sorc, a Foher and a Cold sorc means -100 in three different elements, each hitting at at least 10 000 damage, meaning 3400 per hit, so you are dead in 2 hits even with 6800 life. Yes, now that 400 life would give you a single hit more, but can you really kill three characters with only taking 3 hits in 1v3? I doubt.

LOL. i dont want to argue with someone who does not play d2 pvp anymore, you can theory craft all day everyday its not of my buisness.

Theories? You seriously think I've not dueled on a BvC? Even if it has been quite a while since I did, that doesn't mean that my experiences would be invalid. Also, since D2 is based on maths, it's a fact that the 400 extra life is quite meaningless in practice.

your point about leveling up to get the life as a pure vita barb with the stat build is too extreme, as no one will have the patience to lvl to 99,

So I guess Stoutewolf does not exist? Since he is a person with 2 lvl 99 PvP characters. Also, lvl 99 is not even needed, it depends from the lvl you normally duel at. Add 8 and you have the same life that a lvl X (X being the original level, the one to which you added the 8) pure vita character would have.

My point is: the 400 life means squat in actual dueling situations, no matter what you say, it's a fact. If it wasn't, why would mcm, who mainly seems to do pubduels, use the 63/57 instead of pure vitality? Isn't he the one who made BvCs into what they are today? If so, are you saying that mcm is wrong, thus claiming that you are somehow superior to the father of BvCs? NICE.

 

[akumaxxyz]

get more emotional and pissy? dont put words in my mouth as i never stated im the best or the one who made bvcs into what they are. im simply stating why i think vita is better and you go rampling about your theories and math.

400life more or less is very helpful vs hdins boners, i never said they're needed vs sors trapers etc. think of a situation where you vs hdin and you lasted 1 more hammer because of extra life and that is all needed for you to win, same for boners.

oh and about the stout wolf person, thats just one person, you think every casual gamer is going to lv 99? haha.

 

[HappyAssassin]

Just a friendly reminder, please keep this civil guys.

 

[mainaman]

Also, since D2 is based on maths, it's a fact that the 400 extra life is quite meaningless in practice.

falce statement since your dueling performance is not affected by math, its a ffected by latency, judgement , others ppl performance....

If it wasn't, why would mcm, who mainly seems to do pubduels, use the 63/57 instead of pure vitality? Isn't he the one who made BvCs into what they are today? If so, are you saying that mcm is wrong, thus claiming that you are somehow superior to the father of BvCs? NICE.

im not sure why you are talking about mcm here?
for sure you should ask him personally about his view on the topic .

 

[Ce Olba]

falce statement since your dueling performance is not affected by math, its a ffected by latency, judgement , others ppl performance....

So you are saying that the damage rolls, for example, are affected by latency, judgment and the performance of other people? Yeah right and I'm Jesus.

The duel might be affected by such things. However, we are discussing spells here and there is no theory crafting in the fact that they hit each and every place always except Amazons and Assassins. Thus, talking about that 400 life as a mere +1 to the amount of hits your character can take is a valid argument: there is no chance that it won't happen.

im not sure why you are talking about mcm here?
for sure you should ask him personally about his view on the topic .

The fact that he uses a BvC with 64/57 and mostly seems to duel in publics is enough of evidence to come to that conclusion. Also, never have I seen mcm recommend pure vitality over 63/57 or other statted setups. See the topic I made called "Mcm's stat setup", there he states all of the following:

64/57 was before torch and basically lets you use a setup that offers a lot of damage, PDR%, decent AR, range with bow swap, and lots of light resist to deal with strong smite + strong FOH in hell. You can do the same thing with 44/37 stats and a 20 stat torch (assuming you are on west and have access to wraith brands, modify str if your best frw/fhr/res/res/res/str boots have less than 19 str.)

The other thing that has come to light is that using angelics gives better damage on average (taking into account chance to hit) than highlords/ravens for any opponent over 7600 defense, assuming you don't need the 35% light res from highlords. So the best vs hammerdin setup is arreats, fort, angelics, grief/beast|hel widow, gores, dracs, 19 STR or better OW belt. This requires base stats of 44/47, and it's definitely worth it if you duel a lot of hammerdins 1v1.

For vs smiters, generally speaking the use of COA gives you more room for error, but it is very possible to beat really good smiters without any DR because proper WW is so difficult to hit with smite, so if you really want to do well vs smiters (assuming GM duels) you would probably want to shoot for a BER/BER COA, fort, grief, beast, angelics, high str OW belt, dracs, gore rider setup, which could require more than 44 str -- in fact it would require 53 base str assuming you had a 30 str OW belt with a strreq of 108 or less (mithril coil), and a beast with 36 or more str.

And that's why I'm not remaking my level 96 barb with 64/57 base -- because to have the same flexibility I have now it would only save me 21 stat points = ~210 more final life and it just isn't worth the time

Edit: For those that ARE remaking/making their barbs -- I would go with 53/47 base stats (assuming you have access to 19str res/res/res/fhr/frw boots, a 36+str beast, and a 30str OW belt.)

Edit again: Best pub setup is BER/BER COA, Enigma, Highlords, Ravens, Grief/Beast|Doom/Doom, Trangs Gloves, Arach, str/fhr/frw/res/res/res boots.

Specially pay attention to the first edit.

 

[CaptnSparrow]

Despite Ce Olba being a total *** about it, he's right.