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Pure melee dueling league

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Zebby, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Zebby

    Zebby IncGamers Member

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    Pure melee dueling league

    Those of you who played on USWest in 1.09 may remember a GM dueling league called Gimmeitam. We have decided to bring it back as a pure melee dueling league.

    To join all you have to do is read and agree to the rules listed below, and leave the following information OR send it to [email protected] so your username can be added to the channel bots list.

    Username:
    Class you play:
    Ladder on NL:
    Character name:
    What you would like to be called: ie. Joe, Bill

    If you have any questions feel free to contact me or the other two co-founders at:

    *Zebb
    *Inkanddagger
    *Eternal.night


    These Rules are NOT final, and as such are up for debate. Please remember these specific rules were put in place to try to balance the classes as much as possible.

    CONDUCT RULES

    Conduct rules are intended to promote a friendly, honorable environment for everyone. Moderators can use their discretion to stop any annoying, rude, or inappropriate behavior. A partial list of banned behaviors includes:

    NO BIGOTRY OF ANY KIND! This includes racism, sexism, and everything else. Be careful in your jokes, not everyone thinks it’s funny. This includes comments in your profile and char names.

    TREAT OTHERS WITH RESPECT! No flaming, no trash talking, nking, spamming, or abuse of any kind. This also includes generally annoying behavior.

    NO EXCESSIVE SWEARING OR VULGARITY. This includes /f m messages.

    NO CHEATING, HACKING, STEALING, DUPING, AND SO ON. Do not discuss MH, duping, and so on in our forums, channel, or games.

    If someone is breaking these rules get as much evidence as you can (including screenshots and witnesses) and report it to your head moderator. Mods can decide to warn, temp/perm ban, or any other punishment they deem appropriate.
    Dueling specific rules:

    Duels are held in Nightmare on the Blood Moor.
    Both sides MUST say go before each duel.
    NO potions, shrines, wells, mercs, or leaving the moor.
    NO POISON CHARMS are allowed to be used. Poison from skills (rabies, Venom, etc) ARE allowed.
    NO TELEPORT. This includes charges on items and enigma. Enigma can still be worn, but the teleport skill cannot be used.
    NO Slow -- including Holy Freeze, Decrepify, Clay golem, and slow target % items (such as Cleglaws Pincers)
    NO grossly defensive play (such as avoiding combat for a long time to regenerate your life) will result in a loss.
    NO items with "% to cast†are permitted
    NO use of BONE PRISON.
    NO use of OAK SAGE unless you are a Druid.
    A maximum of 10% to each resistance may be worn (meaning 85/85/85/85 = max resist Allowed). Any amount of resistance stack is allowed.
    The Runeword Grief NOT permitted.
    Knock back is NOT permitted.


    Enchant will be allowed on any class.
    CTA is allowed on all class's
    There is a maximum of 25% poison duration reduction.
    Any off item melee non-class specific skills are allowed (this included Berserk and Zeal from Passion runeword)


    Class specific Rules

    The Following “melee†skills are NOT Considered Melee in this League.

    Paladin:
    Smite, Charge

    Barbarian:
    The use of ww is allowed under the following stipulations:
    A maximum of 35% DR
    A Barb may use Bo OR shout, Not both.

    Amazon:
    Charged Strike, Power Strike, Lightning Strike.
     
  2. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    Expect my email in the next minute. :grin:

    ~LesC
     
  3. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    I think the "% to cast" rule should go as far as none at all, or it would seriously reduce the amount of useable gear. I'd suggest something along the lines of Dracul's, Exile, Last Wish, anything that can give a "real" edge over an opponent. Things with CTC% glacial spike or other weaker attacks shouldn't be considered in this rule. Just my thought on that. :thumbsup:

    Do the same rules apply to a whirlwind assassin as they do to the whirlwind barbarian?

    I'd also like to ask why Grief is banned?

    It seems to me some of these rules benefit a werewolf more then other classes, such as the poison length reduce which will help a rabies druid. I'm going to be playing my melee druid in these duels but I still think if another character wishes to use an oak sage from charges or whatever they should eb able to do so since everyone else is able to use CTA and other skil giving items such as passion, etc.

    Also, why the DR% cap and only one warcry on the barbarian?

    The rest is all good. :laugh:

    Can't wait to get this going.

    ~LesC
     
  4. OnTheDownLow

    OnTheDownLow Banned

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    glacial spike will stun druids every time they go off, and plr doesn't affect rabies :grin:
     
  5. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    Good thing I don't know anything about rabies or that might have been embarassing. :grin:

    But you need to hit the druid to get him in hit recovery anyways so I don't think it would be a huge difference. But I'm no expert on FHR and all the junk.

    ~LesC
     
  6. OnTheDownLow

    OnTheDownLow Banned

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    yeah but it will recovery lock you.
     
  7. Bune

    Bune IncGamers Member

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    Gimmeitam back as an all melee league? Awww come on now, if your gonna open Gimmeitam back up don't limit the people that can join it. Gimmeitam was by FAR the most fun duels I ever had, and the best Sin vs Sin as well (Q-SIINK etc)... maybe you can allow all classes and have a melee only game...?

    I for one would be damn interested in joining either way, I'm playing a WW sin.

    *Catalyst-PvP
     
  8. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    I think he's making it a melee only due to the lack of melee only dueling games on B.Net... or atleast it will increase the number of pure melee games that are actually pure melee.

    ~LesC
     
  9. Zebby

    Zebby IncGamers Member

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    Ok, I'll try my best to answer every1's question at once :D

    1. @ LesClaypool:
    a) When i say chance to cast % i do indeed mean such skills as Amp, IM, Life tap, ect. Things that will give a real advantage. Its not gonna matter if u have an item with a 10% chance to cast lvl 1 charged bolt or something like that.
    b) No, the same rules do not apply to ww sins, WW barbs are as we know the kings of melee to most other classes.. and as such are alot stronger then sins, i HOPE those rules make it so they can be beaten and wont be overpowered.
    c) Grief is banned as of right now due to it being fairly overpowered. Lets face it.. a majority of the builds would be using grief and grief alone more of the time. hopefully this makes it so a variety of differnt weapons will be used. I also think such builds like... psn dagger necros, ww sins among other builds would be dominated by other class's if we alloyed it.
    d) And yes, poison length reduce does NOT affect rabies, but it does affect builds such as ww sins and psn dagger necros.
    e) The dr and wc craft on ww barbarians is an attempt to keep it balanced and make it so they CAN be beat but not underpowered. Some of you may remember Clan-honor (another Gm dueling league) we used the exact same stipulations and found it worked perfectly at keeping them "at bay" so to speak.

    @Pure-MX:

    That may indeed end up happening... depending on how much interest this pulls. But as of now it'll be pure melee. :grin:

    I hoped i've helped answer everyones questions.
     
  10. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    @Zebby:

    I see how the barbs can be overpowered so I'll leave the DR% cap thing for you to decide and it won't bother me much. The poison length reduce cap of 25% makes my Ethereal Glad Bane worthless, anyway I can convince you to change it to 50%? :grin:

    I myself duel against alot of melee who use grief PBs and I come out victor alot more then them.

    And I don't think there is a King of Melee, my Zealot destroyed WW barbs.

    That's why I think I'm going to have to send a new E-Mail concerning my Class and Build my Zealot.

    And would a Conc/WW Hybrid suffer the same penalties as regular WW? [asking for a friend who plays barbs]

    ~LesC
     
  11. OnTheDownLow

    OnTheDownLow Banned

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    I think a big part of the point is to have diversity - people making conc barbs instead of every single barb in GI beign a ww. In fact, the top melee guy on east right now is a conc barb. If you don't think it can happen, maybe you should try making one ;)
     
  12. Zebby

    Zebby IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, thats EXACTLY what im trying to do.

    Now back at LesClaypool:

    I did some testing and 25% PDR limits, but doesnt totally neglect venom or psn dagger. 50% PDR with 85% Psn res hurts those builds pretty bad so we'll try to keep it at 25% for now.

    Now back to grief... Some class's wont have too big of a problem VS grief users but others wont stand much of a chance VS grief users (going back to unique builds)

    As for your friend. he needs to stay to the DR/warcrys limit if he's going to use ww in any way, shape or fourm.


    On a side note: Great feed back and interest so far. I just logged on and 14 people were in the channel (Op Gimmeitam. for those who didnt know :p)
     
  13. antirush

    antirush IncGamers Member

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    I don't have any characters on west at the moment but I'm more than willing to switch back to get into a melee league. My account is *Ar12 and I'll be playing either a jabazon or a kicker.

    Depending on which is more populated I'll be going ladder or non - so which is it?
     
  14. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    hi obviously the league is not local to me but i still have some questions that maybe usefull for others etc;

    Wot about a smiter, in general most ppl think the attack smite is a bm type attack due to itd and itb will this be allowed?

    I also see u take grief off the list, fair enought i see the point vs other unqiue builds effectiveness being droped and a acess to a wider range of gear. Bust still some classes effectiveness drops due to no grief i.e the smiter etc.

    And how does this Warcry cap work, and how will it help?

    I personally think no build skill wise should be limited or nerfed, sometimes trying to play with the balance like this often makes things worse than it is.

    To much caps and rules usally get out of hand, when i say this i think of a dueling league like EP, where some of the rules and nerfeges i think are so extreme only certain chars end up dominating the league.


    Also with caps some gear is out of the question, i.e Stormshield, prolly the best mele shield existing cannot be used, shaftshop armour as well, then u have CTC dracs again some of the best mele gloves out of the question, quite alot of runeword weaps have CTC properties.

    So in reality this is not opening a wide range of weapon and gear oportunities, rather u still may be limited to certain weapon and gear choice anyway.

    Maybe it would be usefull to see how the league works with no limit on gear + skills etc just to see how it works and if things look abit overpowering then u should think about adding nerfing.
     
  15. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    Smiters have been banned from the league.

    Barbs are among the most powerful melee builds with the best melee attack in the game. With the DR% and WC cap it nerfs their effectiveness to lower them to a level where others will have a fighting chance.

    I somewhat agree that trying to balance out a league without actually testing it can be troublesome but many leagues have worked with such rules. But I think the caps are to help out the underpowered builds such as Daggermancers.

    We already had a small discussion on this subject, I don't see how Stormshield and Shaftstop are not usable. Only things that cast certain offensive spells are banned, dracul's is easily one of the best melee gloves but are by far the most BM due to the CTC% Lifetap, and those are the spells we are trying to get rid of. If a runeword has a chance to cast a weak elemental spell then there isn't really any harm.

    That's the point, to keep the members restricted to GM weapons and gear.

    If there aren't any limits it won't be a GM league which is obviously what Zebb is shooting for.

    ~LesC
     
  16. stoutewolf

    stoutewolf IncGamers Member

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    werewolfs are overpowered here in this league
     
  17. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    Thats one of the reasons why i mentioned that argument, i think a fury/rabies could take out most chars in this.

    Also u say dr cap is 25% how can u use stormshield which gives 35% dr or shaft giving 30% does this not break ur limit?

    yeah but i can imagine weaps like doom not existing in this league as it both slows etc, and CTC volcano which can stun.

    You can have limits on certain items and still have a fairly "gm" enviroment but then again this is something ppl have to agree on as everyone has different views on gm + bm.

    The reason why these leagues are not so successfull cuz by nerfing one char it usally gives another char an edge, visa versa.

    This is why i bring up the EP league in Europe we have although this is all class thing not restricted to mele, but with all the rules and nerfs there is only one char that usally dominates which still messes up the balance anyway.
     
  18. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    another reason many leagues are not 'successful' is because the average level of intellect shown by d2 users is pitiful.
    They cannot see why their max absorb mass stack char isn't allowed vs sorc or why ranged chars being able to run faster than melee is not skill.
    EP has been going for ~5 years in its various incarnations even if the majority of bnet dont get involved.

    now a balance example here is WW barb - now most of the over hyped bvc players tend to mention that they use 50dr and dont even bother with a shield to beat any non barb melee chars.
    if this is the case then its hardly a test of skill, hence the attempt to create balance is achieved by lowering dr and def levels etc.
    the rules can be tested and changed if problems are found - this tweaking is the basis of finding a duel environment based on skill rather than natural dominance of classes.
     
  19. TheBassman

    TheBassman IncGamers Member

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    The WW barb DR% cap is 35%.

    I agree that some of the rules can be changed to improve but I think Zebby is tring to promote the league first and come up with a set list of rules once we have enough members and we can all agree on the rules afterwards.

    ~LesC
     
  20. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    Yeah that makes more sense to come up with the proper "sensitive" type gm or Bm rules when u have alot of member that can come to an actual agreement on these things, making the rules more full proof.
     

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