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Pure Conc Melee Questions

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by PheonixLeader, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Pure Conc Melee Questions

    Hi,

    I'm about to make another meleer and i tought about that setup :

    - Arreat sup with ed/ias jewl
    - Angelic amy
    - Edeathz
    - Eth Glitch Prudence
    - Ss with ed/ias jewl
    - 20%ias/cb/life/ar/strengh Gloves
    - Dungo
    - 1xRaven + 1xAngelic ring
    - Gores

    I was wondering if i should just use ebotdz and not loose any ias sockets but if i go that way, 15%ds is kinda...low. Don't know what to do.

    Also, if im pure melee (conc/zeal/fury, etc.), will my invent will be like :

    - BTorch
    - Anni
    - 9x125+ar/30+life gcs
    - 10x30+ar/20life sc's

    ?

    Thx
     
  2. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    I would think that a Grief Phase Blade would be the best choice for pure conc/melee.
    First off, damage wise, Grief should put you were you want and add more DS to your attack. So thats high damage with 35% DS total now, without Highlords, and don't forget you can still do double damage with Critical from your Mastery which you didn't have when you were dueling as a Pally.
    Second, for speed, even the lowest ias Grief PB with one ias jewel in your helm is going to result in 9fpa which is awesome.

    Now, lets say you use full angelic's to raise the scale on your AR, drop a Cham in the shield for CBF, equip Rends for Def-ED-CB and mass dam/ar/life small charms for more life and damage.

    That would seem to be better damage, life, AR, Great speed with no ill effect to your defense or armour choices.

    Peace



     
  3. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    I know dmg will be higher because of the hidden dmg on grief, but how could 20%ds could be better than 66%ds? And how come -33%def is worse than -25%def? (I'm talking about Edc now because i plan to sell all my zealer to make that conc barb godly. So, Edc or Grief or Ebotdz? And why. Cuz 100%ds is sexy).

    Also, i should use angelics instead of Hl/Rfs if ill use griefpb?

    Don't understand...(tired.)
     
  4. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Okay, lemme give this a shot...

    Just looking at base weapon damage + DS bonuses (I might be off here feel free to fix plz:badteeth: )

    edc damage=137-403 = 270 avg damage
    66% DS x 270 = 179 DS avg damage
    Total avg damage = 449

    Greif PB=431-435 = 433 avg damage
    20% DS x 433 = 87 DS avg damage
    Total avg damage =520

    Now of course adding in other items that add to your damage will just improve
    either one, for example, HL @35%DS would add 152 damage to grief but only 95 to the edc. So DS is good to have, but even more useful with higher base damage.

    The -8% Target Defense difference is really -4%, as its effectiveness is cut in
    half. Not a huge difference there.

    AR set-up

    This is looking at lvl 94 mind you.
    With your Angelic/single Raven Combo/Charms
    1128+250+(1125+300) = 2803 total AR

    With 2 Angelic/scs
    1128+1128+(740) = 2995 total AR

    Now thats pretty darn close, a bit higher with 2Ang/scs,
    save a few minor quibbles on dex/life differences.

    The nice thing about your setup is when you switch off to HL and 2XRaven,
    you have much higher AR over scs 1925 vs 1240 pretty significant, and even
    more with your charms + angelics = 3681!?!:shocked:

    I'm just not sure in charms whether its worth giving up 270 life (x BO) and 111 to you base Max damage. And I'm still sticking with using angelics at this point since I think they are needed for hitting-worse case.


    P.S. when I first posted, I was thinking that your were calculating the ias% on the HL to reach breakpoint, my bad.



     
  5. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Yeah. All true.

    Now, if im telling you ebotdz + eth sacred fort + angelics(all 3x) ? What you think?

    I just dueled one and his ar/def/life were 32k/40k without chilling/5k.
    Thats kinda interesting...

    The main point in there is that i don't really want to use grief because in alot of tournments or pub games, grief is take as a bm wep.

    Thx again
     
  6. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Ah, well what's better than an eth sacred forti? Nothing that I can think of, unless its a cost issue and I certainly wouldn't want to waste it in pubs.

    I guess if your dueling amongst peers that say Grief is BM, well, I'm really interested to know why that is....:scratch:

    As far as Edc over Ebotd, well, Edc does have more avg damage and Ebotd has better speed. Your going to have to make a comprimise somewhere in your gear selection here either way, and with the speed factor, the overall setups could be quite different to maintain damage/speed/AR and some life.

    If your trying to maintain the same speed,
    The differences really seem to come down to a few basic parts:

    Ebotdz
    cham
    angelic
    rends (or dracs which offer damage not affected by DR, OW)
    *****
    Edc
    40/15ias
    raven
    ias gloves

    All of these parts offer differences in damage AR and life (except for cham)
    and I would count str and dex bonuses to Vita.

    In the end I bet you'll come up with Ebotdz, as Hal had suggested, and he's
    well versed in Conc imo. I just think its interesting to look at balanaces and numbers associated with the build. Just don't be surprised if you duel a
    slower swinging GriefZ barb and get a busted lip.:starry:



     
  7. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Eh, didnt mean to tell Eth... it wasnt eth actually.

    For Hal, he's telling me that all conc barb arent very good... and that isnt true. If he thinks that, i don't know who he can be a mod without dueling some of the greatest duelers out there... anyway.

    About grief, its calling BM because of venom. Every wep that use a skill that isnt melee or isnt in the skill three of your char is BM in tournments. Grief is half bm/gm in alot of games, just because alot of other user use it. I'm maybe to old and don't like the new patches, but for example, in .09 or 1.1( don't remember), eexil wasnt allowed in melee tournments because of the life tap (huge amount : 15%, thats why dracs is fine, only 5%).

    G2g.
     
  8. Lyrs

    Lyrs IncGamers Member

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    In PvP, if the Venom on Grief bothers you, than your build obviously needs to be redesigned.

    As for tournaments, if you're interested in whichever, then find and build according to their rules on their site/thread/forum/whatever. The ideas and suggestions of BM and GM provided on this thread will likely be wrong and/or incomplete.
     
  9. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Well, in the grand scheme of all things that are dueling in Diablo, Conc just isn't the best PvP skill going, or even the best BvB skill going. If you want
    to be pure melee and Tourney duel, then hats off, I respect that, as we all
    have our own tastes in game play. I personally prefer BvB/PKK which allows
    more flex, but isn't without its limitations of course. From what I can tell, this forum has spent alot of time looking at WW and BvC, due to the overall value
    of those skills in dueling for Barbarians. Furthermore, BvC offers up an opportunity to play a character which requires a person to play with more skill, which is alot different then item stacking and just holding down left-mouse button until you or your opponent is dead.

    Like you, I'm not new to the game, but I'm playing pubs East NL. Try making a
    BvB or Melee game there... I bet when I go back on tonight, I'll click on a BvB game and I'll see more Sorc/Nec/Pally then barbs:shocked: and thats pretty typical. I started out Conc, but for that reason I've abandoned it. Tourney does sound interesting, but it does sound to me like the rules are set by older players who can't equip new rune words on there already high level tightly balance chars.I'm probably wrong about that, I'm just not into other people dictating what I can and can't use. But whatever, Its about what you enjoy in the end.



     
  10. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    I'm sorry that you lost to a conc barb in PvP (as you mentioned in your other thread), which has apparently led you to the conclusion that they are an extremely powerful melee pvp class. Perhaps it was an incredibly talented player, a lucky fight(s), or your tactics against him weren't working out too well. I never said that all conc barbs sucked, but rather that in general, without a very skilled controller, they are at a disadvantage.

    I wrote the conc guide to promote their play, and so telling people that they are weaker in duels than other builds would be antithetical. However, it is my job, as a member of this community and a moderator of this forum, to provide people with honest, unbiased information that will help them be the best they can be in this game. Thus, I ponted out the difficulty in reaching higher levels of dueling success with the build.

    Try to show a little respect.

    -Hal



     
  11. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Meh, my thread is over anyway.

    I'm sorry if you find some unrespected things vs you, but that wasnt my idea. You told me on my other barb thread that barb was less powerfull than zealer (most of the time). To be honest, i think the same. Is just that zealer/conc and other combo of duel that have lifetap/nothing aspect is kinda... unfair. That's why, at base, leech cant be use in melee duel. What i'm trying to say is that, except that lifetap thing, the #1 ranked conc barb can duel and kill 1/2 of the time the #1 zealer, as both of their three skills are there to help each of those to be the best around.

    All that to say that i think melee duel gm (no lifetap at start for ex., or psn dmg that kill the other without hitting the other one twice, etc.) are the best aspect of the game (in duel i mean) because you can't really be an *** in those duel game and just have fun with great duelers (try to have fun in a pub caster game for 1xhour....GL).

    Like Barloc said, i'm not new and played for 5-6years (don't even remember..) and i'm about to quit because I don't have much time now to have fun on my comp... working, working, etc. Just wanted to make a great/fun/gm dueler for my (really..) last char.

    I respect all of you,

    Thx
     
  12. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    No problem buddy, just misunderstandings/etc. The joys of the text medium and all.

    But yeah, I suppose that equally geared, a zealer and a conc barb could come down to a 50-50 split. I was just running off of what the general idea of a melee duel here is, where zealers have the gear advantage and whirlers wipe us out.

    Sorry if I came off hateful, btw. We were going through another Twin Emps wipe on my WoW server, haha. No hard feelings :)

    -Hal
     
  13. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Good luck with your Barb Pheonix, I'm sure it'll be awesome with what ever you decide Bro-

    Peace

    @ Hal- don't think I mentioned this before, but I remembered when you put up
    that guide, as I was lurking around then.It was an inspiration when I abandoned 1.09 Open Bnet dueling for Closed Play. Well written and organized. That's part of the reason why what you say here has a lot of weight to me, and the typically tactful and thoughtful manner of you posts. You've been a good Mod, and I'm not just saying because you have the power to Ban me here:laughing:

    Peace,
    Barloc
     

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