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Pure Charger Gear?

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by xLithiumx, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. xLithiumx

    xLithiumx Banned

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    Pure Charger Gear?

    I want to make a Charger and am not sure on what gear it would use. So would like any suggestions.

    I am on East ladder softcore and No gear it out of reach for me so please recommend the best gear possible.

    Thanks any help is appreciated

    xLithiumx
     
  2. bobofuzzlymunky

    bobofuzzlymunky IncGamers Member

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    id suggest either ebotd thunder maul or war pike.

    (dont ask me about skills, im only (kinda) good at gear)

    Helm- CoA (im assuming your pvp, this cant be beat)
    Ammy- Highlords? maras?...idk
    Armor- Fortitude (300%ed= duh)
    Weapon- Ebotd Warpike or Thunder Maul (both HUGE dmg)
    Belt- Verdungos? Nosferatus?
    Rings- no clue. one is a raven though.
    Gloves- Steelrends (dmg= friend)
    Boots- gores? some tri-res/frw boots maybe?


    ps- or if u like shields you can sub out the 2-hand weapon for a 400+% ebotdz and a pheonix shield (huge %ed.)

    good luck
     
  3. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    pure charge? pvp? (i'm guessing yes since i dont see charge doing well in pvm)
    if you're going for pure charge with the idea of bashing in skulls in matter of seconds (or split seconds if bit lucky) i think this gear should be great

    ebotd war pike (not the highest dmg weapon but difference is tiny and range 5 is always useful when charging)
    fortitude in whatever armor you prefer :)
    steelrends (more dmg and 10% extra crushing blow)
    fully upgraded goblin toes (25% cb) or upgraded gores (15% cb and 15% ds)
    cham'd guillaume's face (35% cb & 15% ds)

    as for jewelry i'm not 100% sure yet, you could go with highlords + 2 bk rings for extra ds and extra dmg/ar from skills or.....with angelic to make sure your charge hits

    with gores + highlords setup you'll have a total of 60% cb and 60-67% ds
    with goblin toes however you'll have a total of 70% cb ^^ ....and "only" 45-52% ds
     
  4. xLithiumx

    xLithiumx Banned

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    Why a Warpike for the ebotd instead of a Zerk Ebotd with a phoenix Shield? If I were to choose Pheonix Shield and Zerk ebotd what should the phoenix be in?
     
  5. vCH

    vCH IncGamers Member

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    If you're going to make a Phoenix for your pally make it in a pally shield so that you can benefit from either more resistance or even more ED/AR. Exceptional pally shields dont have a huge difference in defense from the elite ones, but the elite ones have more req (and maybe a tad more chance to block).
    ie A guilded shield only has some 30 def less than it's upped version.
     
  6. mumba

    mumba Banned

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    I'm guessing pvp too, in which case crushing blow is absolutely useless, so all those items that give cb could be switched for much better ones.
     
  7. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    Pally's have worse FHR with Spears (and staves) than other weapons, and Mauls benefit from 1.1% ed/strength rather than the 1%/strength of other weapons. Weapon range is not an issue when charging.

    EBotDTM will definately do more damage than an EBotDZ+Phoenix. If you're using Fanaticism as main aura, that's comparing about 6k-33k for the Maul to 5k-16k for the Zerker+Phoenix. They're rough figures, but it gives you an idea of the difference in damage potential.

    CB is not entirely useless in PvP, but for a character with a 1 hit KO attack it makes little difference. For a 2-frame hit WW barb, it's a different story altogether.

    I'd rather get a high DS chance. It'll increase your chances of 1 hit kills greatly.
     
  8. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    Mauls, axes and polearms counts as staves as far as FHR is concerned though.



     
  9. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    i took the time to calculate dmg and here's result with setup i mentioned (for the high ds %)
    oh yeah, i did mixup cb and ds and you're right, ds is the most useful for charge so should go with 60-67% setup (guillaume's - highlords - gores)
    anyway...here's the calculation
    ebotd thunder maul (415%) would end up having 49-270 252-1390 dmg
    total ed on equip is 360 (300 from fortitude and 60 from gloves)
    total ed from skills is 2000
    total ed from strength is 246 (guessing you would have 224 str wearing that tm)
    total ed is 2606 so that results in you having a total dmg of 6819 - 37613

    if you ask me.....thats sounds extremely painful and fun to try :D



     
  10. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Blasphemy. A well-played Charger will kick some serious demon butt in PvM. It's all about positioning. Here, I'll give you a brief primer on Charge.

    Charge is an *EXTREMELY* fast attack (somewhere between 4 to 6 frames, I don't know for sure). I know, some of you are rolling your eyes saying "But SSoG, I've used it before, and it's SLOOOOOOW". That's because you've used it wrong. What happens when you Charge is that you rush over towards an enemy, use your 4-6 frame attack, and knock them back. If you namelock the enemy, you'll immediately charge again, and knock them back again. If you string together a long chain of charge-knockback-charge-knockbacks (what I call a "Charge Chain"), you can fire off 4 or 5 attacks per second (at 2,000% ED, to boot).

    Now, the reason why you think that Charge is slow is because if you namelock an enemy, then after the last charge, you won't knock back the enemy again (because there's something behind him). After that, you'll be in melee range, and since the enemy is namelocked, you'll perform a standard attack... and standard attacks with big fat charging weapons often take 15 frames or more. That's the slow part. So the trick is to always stop charging before you trigger a standard attack. If you do that, if you time it right (i.e. charge when there's nothing behind the monster so you can trigger 4-5 attacks in a row, and then stop charging when the monster gets backed up against something so you don't accidentally use standard attack), then you can deal the equivalent of 100 standard attacks in the span of a single second. Kablooey.

    It's a question of on-weapon ED vs. off-weapon ED. Your final damage is going to be your Weapon Damage times your Off-Weapon ED. If you want to double your damage output, you can either double your weapon damage, or you can double your off-weapon ED. A Warpike will deal double the damage of a Zerker Axe, which means you'll deal double damage to charging. Since Chargers routinely have 2,000% Off-weapon ED, in order to double their damage using off-weapon ED, you'd need another 2,000%. Needless to say, Phoenix's lousy ED falls WELL short of that mark.

    For a Charger, off-weapon ED is virtually meaningless, while increasing your on-weapon ED or your base weapon damage will make a DRASTIC difference in your killing speed, This is why I recommend against running Fanaticism as your primary aura for a PvM Charger- really, Fanaticism's ED is just a drop in the bucket for a Charger. Does it really matter whether you have 2100% ED or 2400% ED? Run an aura that'll help your pally more, like Vigor, Conviction, or Holy Shock, instead.

    Disagreed. Weapon Range is *ONLY* an issue while charging. No other melee characters care about their weapon range, except for possibly Whirlwinders, Leap Attackers, and the occasional deviant spearazon. For a PvM Charger, weapon range is absolutely everything. It will dictate your entire playstyle. People always recommend charging with a short weapon in PvM, but I actually prefer charging with a long weapon. It takes a *TON* of practice, and I firmly believe for your first Charger you should use a short weapon, but if you master the intricacies of charging with a Range 5 weapon, it has a lot of nice perks. Either way, though, weapon range will drastically impact how you play your Pally.

    Dang, I really need to post my PvM Charger guide over here soon so I can just link to it rather than typing this all out every time.:laugh:



     
  11. vCH

    vCH IncGamers Member

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    Please do :D



     
  12. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    =o nice post ssog :D
    one question though, about the range, isnt it true that the charge-knockback-charge-knockback goes easier with a short range weapon? or was it long range, i've noticed a difference when switching around range 5 for range 2 weapon but forgot which one was better =(
     
  13. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Should be the same with both.

    When you charge an enemy, you will knock them back and damage them the instant they enter your weapon's range. To visualize it, imagine running in real life at someone with your bare hands, compared to a 10-foot pole. Imagine that each time you hit them with your hands/pole, they took a step back. You could walk them all around the room with your bare hands or with the pole just as easily... it's just that, if you used the pole, you'd always be 10 feet away from them at all times. That sort of explains the difference between charging with Range 1s and charging with Range 5s- they both trigger the knockback and set up Charge Chains just as easily, it's just that the enemy stays at weapon's range away from you the entire time (and weapon's range is considerably greater for a pike than a dagger).

    This affects your playstyle in several big ways. For instance, if you're facing some Rogue Spearwomen in Act 1 and you're wielding a dagger, they'll stop to poke you naturally outside of your dagger's range, so you don't even have to step back- you can just charge them from where you are. With a pike, you'd have to take a few steps back to create some running room before charging, or else you'd launch a normal attack (which is very slow, and very bad). However, on the other end of things... when you're done charging an enemy with a range1 weapon, you'll be really, really close to them. If they get out of hit recovery in a hurry, or if you get distracted by another enemy (or put into blocking animation), then they're in melee range of you, which can be bad. If you charge with a spear, then even when the enemy wakes up, they're well back from you. This is also great while using Hit Blinds Target- with a range 1 weapon, you'll still be in the monster's radius of awareness at the end of a charge, but with a Range 5 weapon, you'll be outside of it. For this reason, I love charging with a Silence or Passion War Pike- at the end of the charge, the enemy is blind and so far away from you that he has no clue where you are. Makes it nice and easy to wheel away and set up another charge.



     
  14. Dahmer

    Dahmer IncGamers Member

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    oh ok, thanks for detailed answer ^^
    i just remembered why i had that idea btw, when i switched from short range to longer range i also didnt have my hoz anymore so i lost skills which made me loose ar....so the time mobs didnt get knockbacked i think i just plainly missed :grin:
     
  15. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    The knockback triggers whether you hit or not. I could have 100 AR and I'd still be able to push monsters all around the Blood Moor in Hell. I could knock them back, I just couln't hit them (and subsequently kill them).

    If the knockback wasn't working, it's because there was something behind the monster that you charged that prevented him from getting knocked back. Chargers often have to resort to several herding techniques like the Lightning Furyzon- except using different techniques, since you want to separate out enemies rather than clump them together. Anyway, my Charger spends 80% of his time in battle running in circles to separate a monster out, and only 20% of the time actually actively charging. It's a hassle, but once you get nothing but green grass behind your target and you lauch a 10-hit charge chain, it's all worthwhile.



     

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