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Pure builds and TC87 running?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by huangfusong, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Pure builds and TC87 running?

    My grail is mostly complete now except for the most rare. Alot of my earlier builds were based on hybrid guides because I hated having to clear the game with mid-tier stuff (meteorb, etc). I just made a pure blizzard sorc and getting some nice stuff in Ancient Tunnels (ghostflame). So, I'm looking for tips on other TC87 drop areas that I can only have to worry about uniques spawning with immunity. I don't have the runes for that -resistance runeword or the one that gives the aura for -resistance, so I don't think I can break any :(

    What I have to work with (best candidates)

    Skellimancer
    Death sentry assassin
    Zealadin
    Blizzard sorc
    Chain lightning sorc (planning)
    Fireball sorc (planning)

    No enigma (duh), but I have Naj's puzzler for easy enough warping around. With +skills armour on my upper slots and chance guards/war travs/nagelring/37%mf ring, plus charms and occassionally more from eq depending on build, I usually have 200-400 MF. With the blizz sorceress I can take players 8 tunnels easy. Hope there's other easy spots I can vary it up with :)

    Mausoleum - Don't go here much, not too learned about its advantages. No one talks about runs here, maybe its not worth it.

    Pits - Mons naturally immune to fire/cold/lightnight. Nuts. Maybe the skellimancer might be good here? Not tight enough to really impede the army. I'm wary about taking my zealadin in here on high difficulty as the archers will murder him up close.

    Viper temple: tri-immunes here between the two serpent types and scarabs. Scarabs are bad news for melee builds. Skellimancer again?

    Kurast temples: Again, not too fond of these places. Mostly because of the risk of a stairway ambush and the difficulty in retreiving your body.

    Izual's area: Not worth it due to gloams.

    Worldstone Keep/Baal - Cold is about as good as I can figure, since the immunes aren't dangerous and I can teleport around them. Psychical damage dealers don't seem like a good idea cuz of the gloams. It can be done with a frozen orb sorc with fire skills when you get into the extra levels, but not easy by any means.
     
  2. Jaago

    Jaago Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Ancient tunnels with a Blizzy is probably the most effective choice. Pindle is good, too, if you don't need a Tyrael's.

    Other places you mentioned aren't really worth it, except for Pits and WSK/Baal, which require more specialized/expensive builds to compete. Baalruns can be done with a Blizzballer with good gear.

    Edit: /p1 is usually better drop-wise than /p8.

    Edit2: Forgot the existence of Hammerdins. Silly me. :badteeth:
     
  3. Corrupted

    Corrupted Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Hammerdin in the Pits works, even for higher player settings! As long as you get a good map and focus on the bosspacks.
     
  4. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    I started a hammerdin, but never got out of Normal mode. The hammers seem to get stuck anywhere but wide open areas, and I didn't progress at nearly the same rate as some of the other builds. I should find a video of one in action to see how its done
     
  5. Gambitsreturn

    Gambitsreturn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    I keep tryin to get into doing Pit runs but I just can't seem to break my Pindle addiction. My strafe zon works pretty good down there but I still haven't found anything great. Does anyone have one of those really cool screen shots where they show all there sexy Pit finds? (Like KV's 5k AT one!) I think I need a little motivation to contine the Pit.

    Because you are working on a pure blizz sorc I would just stick with Pindle and WSK/Baal and AT. Oh ya, a lightning trapper with maxed DS is pretty sweet in the Pits as well.

    Sorry for the sloppy post.:crazyeyes:
     
  6. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Pure bliz rocks the house in Ancient Tunnels (subsidiary of Lost City) and against Pindle.
     
  7. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks Cheesy Hammer is a right royal pain to use. I like being able to aim AT things.
     
  8. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    I did like 5 pindle runs and he spawned cold immune every time. The stragglers caught up to my merc before he died (using static field and telekinesis), so I had to abandon it. Pindle is easier on p8 with my skellimancer or zealadin.

    I'll definitely try pits with my death trapper and strafeazon, thanks for the tip. So many monsters spawn physical immune I forget the nice places without it :)
     
  9. Cius

    Cius Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    I always abandon a run where pindle spawns immune to cold with my blizzy. Takes too long for the merc to take him down as I don't have a good merc stick yet. Blizzard in AT, Blizzard on Pindle are the two that I am using now. Blizzy is also good for Mephisto and LK. I currently have a great LK map and a decent Mephisto map for the Blizzy so I don't want to change it. Busy alternating running those 2 areas with her interspursed with pindle. Yesterday I got bored of that setup so I unparked my lvl 30 fishymancer and started moving him through Act5 Normal. I am planning to make him a Hell WSK2-3 + Baal runner perhaps. Personally I would not aim for Tyrials. Too many people that have seriously MF'd this game for years are yet to find it to make it seem worthwhile to me. I am aiming for grail -1 which means I can do it mostly through Pindle, Mephisto, and the occasional AT run. LK is purely for runes. The only reason I am building characters to do other LVL85 areas is for some variation.
     
  10. asdfgah

    asdfgah Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    My favourite pure mf build is blizzard sorc for baal.

    Perhaps not as efficient as pindle/AT but I find it more fun.
     
  11. Eric Xanthu

    Eric Xanthu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    The only right answer is the build you like enough to keep playing. No area in the game is EZ-pass to grail--it takes time, lots of time, enough time to make you puke. Hammerdin in The Pit or Blizzer in AT, whichever is most efficient, is irrelevant if you play for a few weeks or months and then give it up out of boredom. If you love running Baal with an MF poisonmancer, do that. It's kind of like a dissertation--the time-spent variable is so disproportionately important that all others nearly fade away.

    Good luck to you on finishing that grail!
     
  12. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Without Enigma, that is certainly true. But with Enigma and some decetn blocking, teleport into the pack and they all die.



     
  13. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    I tried mixing up a feel baal runs in, but kelpie snare is nearly required for baal runs and it makes my merc that much weaker against pindle/ancient tunnels. I need him to deal massive physical damage for the cold immunes.

    Also, merc has a hard time staying alive against the 2nd pack (he can't be frozen but decrep is bad enough, and poison lasts 2 more packs), and against the 3d pack (fire damage is insane for him even with a fire resist gem in andy's helm -- all his resistances are maxed).

    Any tips for the 2nd and 3rd packs? Once they're gone I can turn players 8 on and the final two are easy once I teleport to the platform.



     
  14. Eric Xanthu

    Eric Xanthu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Glacial spike will handle wave 3. Drop a blizzard while Baal is in his summoning animation. Toss a spike the second before the pack appears and you'll freeze almost all of them. If necessary, tank the fire for your merc.

    Wave 2 is a pain for pure blizzard. Again using spike if needed and kill the unravelers first. When they are all dead, give your merc an antidote--I keep a sleeve of them on my belt for this. Then just teleport from skeleton to skeleton, using static and telekinesis. Or try the grogs approach of Bonehew corpse explosion charges (not my preference).

    I ran a blizzer against Baal for a decent while, up to about lvl 95. It's very do-able. I didn't use Kelpie for Baal--he goes down just fine without.
     
  15. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?


    Yeah, that's a great trick until he can equip gladiator's bane, or if the unique has holy freeze aura. I've got it timed to the point where I can teleport so that he strikes immediately on landing, and unless the guy's ex-fast, he's done for.

    So, I use gladiator's bane for CBF, kelpie snare to slow baal, and andy's mask for life leech. I wish I could switch out andy's for blackhorn's face (for prevent monster heal). Maybe I'll sacrifice a life leech rune for it.



     
  16. Jaedhann

    Jaedhann Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Don´t sweat it. Prevent monster heal doesn´t work on mercs.



     
  17. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Well, I'm sure as hell not going toe-to-toe with lister. If he spawns cold immune, it's off to lead him away so Baal finishes summoning.



     
  18. pharaoh

    pharaoh Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    If you've read enough of my posts, you'll know I've said this many times before, but a 200% FCR Charged Bolt sorcy works great. Max CB, Lightning (synergy), Lightning Mastery, and a point each in Static Field, Telekinesis, and Teleport, and you've got your main attack and two utility spells complete after 63 skill points. Depending on when you complete the skill quests, this means you'll be finished the core build in your 50s. Pick a backup attack to deal with LIs, and you're set. Frozen Orb is a nice choice, but I opted for Fireball because it lets me leverage my FCR for more damage over time. Really, though, you can go with any non-lightning damage spell that doesn't need to be heavily synergized to work well. I've even considered Glacial Spike, trading the damage of Fireball for the safety of freezing, and I may try this on another build.

    Advantages:

    • Charged Bolt! Sure, it's a humble first-tier spell, but with maxed Lightning and LM, it deals respectable damage, especially when you're casting them super fast. Besides, it looks really cool, and aiming is a thing of the past.
    • Super-fast casting. FCR is to casters what IAS is to physical attackers, and as such, it can really help your damage over time.
    • Teleport! There's a reason that virtually every sorceress player puts a point here, and it's the very same reason that sorcies are the most popular MF builds. Teleport with 200% FCR makes for great mobility, which can compensate for poor map layout. It's also great for escaping danger, pulling the merc out of melee range when he gets cursed with IM, and plenty of other things.
    • Unusual. While boltresses are becoming more common than they used to be, it's still far from a mainstream build. If you want to try something a little bit different, give this build a try.
    • Telekinesis. When encountering the rare dual-immune boss, you can easily stunlock with TK. This might not work well for all sorcies, but with massive FCR, you can stunlock just about anything that knockback can affect.

    Disadvantages:

    • Gear. Needs pretty specialized gear (some of it expensive), thanks to the 200 FCR requirement. However, one nice thing is that two staple pieces of gear (Wizardspike and Skin of the Vipermagi) offer lots of resists (up to 105 res all, or 125 if you're a lucky bastard with a v1.07 Wizzy). You can opt to lose a frame of cast speed by dropping down to 105 FCR, which will still let you cast pretty fast, but leave you with a lot more gear flexibility.
    • Heavy strength investment. A 'Spirit' shield, while not absolutely necessary, is certainly very helpful with this build. This means you'll need 156 strength, and with the specificity of your other gear (and charms being reserved for skills, MF, and resists), it means less points in Vitality.
    • Limited backup attack options. Of course, this goes for virtually every build in the game, particularly sorcies. You need to pick something that doesn't need a lot of synergy points to work well, but fortunately, Frozen Orb, Fireball, and Fire Wall are excellent examples.
    • Mana issues. Unless you put points in energy or have top-notch gear, casting super fast means you use your mana up very quickly. Mana-per-kill gear may alleviate this somewhat, but still, it's something to keep in mind. Insight mercs are very helpful with this build, and rival Infinity for usefulness (though not for pure killing power).
    One other thing that can be either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your play style, is the fast-paced nature of the build. You have to be paying attention all the time, and constantly ready to Teleport or sidestep. Technique becomes more important than with many other builds, such as using Teleport to move atop gloams, switching to FBall to take them out, and then Teleporting to the next group of them before they can pose a threat. This means that if you like to play drunk, stoned, or while distracted (watching TV, talking on the phone, etc), this probably isn't the build for you. I like to describe this as a 'twitchy' build, because of the need to keep moving.

    Overall, though, it's a very fun build, and well worth the effort.
     
  19. huangfusong

    huangfusong Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    It sounds interesting. I'm gonna do lightning next, only have to choose which skill to pick. I know you can probably max frozen orb and its synergies/CM from level 50, but doesn't fireball have a ton of synergies. And it's still more powerful, you say?

    I usually steer clear of wizardspike because it has no +skills, and lucky enough to have Heart of the Oak now, so I can't image the 10% FCR difference hurting that much for an extra +3 skills. All my sorceresses use spirit, so the strength requirement is no issue.

    It's appealing mostly because I have 3 lightning skillers collecting dust, but not 1 cold skiller yet :(
     
  20. Ugla

    Ugla Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Pure builds and TC87 running?

    Only the Conviction aura or the Lower Resistance curse can break immunities. The -enemy resistance mod on items (rainbow facets and others) as well as Cold Mastery of a sorceress apply once the immunity has been broken. It's still very important, since both Conviction and LR work with 1/5 efficiency against immunes, which typically leaves them in 90+% values. Suitable elements are poison (Lower Resist only, not Conviction) and lightning. You will not break many FIs and almost no CIs.

    Claw Viper Temple is neither lvl85 nor lvl84 area. Same for Izual's area (Plains of Despair). No point running those. Check Hrus's MF-guide for complex information on this topic.

    Pindle should die quickly once your merc gets the proper gear. I prefer Stealskull, Skullder's, and Tombreaver for MF and extra damage vs undead. Clerics don't know the term "immune Pindle" :whistling:

    Definitely don't mix in any Baal-runs, since the typical all-for-MF gear used elsewhere with resists deep in red is not very healthy down there. You need a specialized setup for Baal-runs. Speaking of which:

    1. as said, use antidotes against Achmel, it's not cheating :wink:
    2. builds lacking additional targets cry for Guardian Angel on a merc to survive the hydras. GBane combined with decent leech works either, esp. with Teleport.
     

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