PTR 2.0.1 Analysis

Katniss

Diabloii.Net Member
I know I've been absent from the forums for quite some time, but I wrote this report of my experience with the PTR a few weeks ago to share with the community. I'm sure you guys have been heavily discussing it, but I just wanted to chip my two cents in.

With this pre-expansion patch, I set out to see how a player would fare with a completely fresh start. Seeing as how most players are probably approaching this opportunity as a chance to determine how their existing characters and gear will adapt to Paragon 2.0, Loot 2.0, and the reworked difficulty system, I thought it might be useful to see how a player with no ability to have ever used the Auction House would survive and what walls they might run into. My results surprised me.

The positives from my experience were many. I played the console version of Diablo 3 when it debuted back in September and one of the main laudable qualities of that experience was that it was far more rewarding than what PC players were used to at the time. Legendaries, hyperbolically speaking, rained from the sky, as the drop rate was able to be boosted without an Auction House to consider. With the announcement of the Auction House closing for the PC version, it seemed like the console would be the best place to look in terms of what to expect from such a major change. Within the first few days of watching those with access to the Friends and Family Beta for Reaper of Souls, it was clear that that same enhanced drop rate had made its way into the expansion. It has since been tempered back and this, coinciding with Travis Day waxing poetic on Magic Find and its negative influence on the core gameplay experience, has, at least for now, established the reward system that players will be operating under once 2.0.1 hits. Magic Find is of next to no importance and the goal is to simply gear for killing and do it quickly - the drops will follow.

Starting with a brand new Demon Hunter, I cleared Acts I to IV with no deaths and no problems on Normal difficulty. I was around level 35 or so when I had finished and each major Act boss dropped a Legendary; a majority of which were rings and were targeted specifically for my character. I received Nemesis Bracers, which were recently hotfixed, from killing Diablo. Outside of the Act bosses, I believe only one other Legendary randomly dropped in the world. From early on, the only Magic Find I had was the 6% I got from a Nagelring. This rate of reward seemed acceptable though, and the bracers in particular were a cool drop because they changed the way I approached my play. I would often clear a wide berth around a shrine before activating it in order to take on the newly spawned Elite/Unique monster in relative safety. The monsters scaling with my level also made it seem like I wasn't really rushing to complete the game on the current difficulty, since the experience points flowed consistently. However, this is when I noticed the major problem with this patch.

Upon completion of Act IV, all of the acts were now available to my Demon Hunter, but she was still 25 levels away from max level. Naturally, my inclination was to get her there, but how? With the removal of the progression from Normal to Nightmare to Hell to Inferno, we have the freedom to begin running whatever we want after clearing each Act once, but the game itself provides no direction or incentive to go to any certain zone once that task has been completed. Densities have been changed from the last adjustments they received so that, in general, there are no major areas where it makes sense to go farm experience efficiently. At first, this seems like a blessing. The scaling difficulty makes it so that any zone, give or take the different monster types, grants about the same experience. However, what this does in reality is trap players into the same exact runs they were mindlessly doing previously, just sooner than they were used to. The "fault" lies with the existence of Adventure Mode. It's currently slated as an "expansion only" feature.


Loot Runs are randomized dungeons, monsters, and a mini-boss that drops sweet loot. Also, they'll be pre-patched for free. #D3RoS
— Diablo (@Diablo) August 21, 2013



The tweet above shows that Loot Runs were actually supposed to be a part of the pre-expansion patch, comporting with Mosquiera's pillar of "end game for everyone," but, as Lylirra has recently been noting in the forums, Loot Runs were iterated upon until they became their most recent incarnation, Nephalem Rifts, and the development team made the choice of limiting them exclusively to Reaper of Souls. As a result, what once made sense as a decision to enable players to have freedom by removing the need for progression from difficulty to difficult just to get to Inferno, now leaves players directionless and bored. Currently, my Demon Hunter is at level 48 and I've run my favorite parts of Acts I, II, and III to get her those additional levels after "beating the game." When I log in to continue the trek to 60, though, I find myself less and less excited as the main difference will be that I will "unlock" changing my experience bar to fill up with blue instead of yellow.

Without "endgame for everyone" making it to those who choose not to expand, I foresee that it will only be a matter of time, and a very short one, before they either quit playing or reluctantly expand. Perhaps Blizzard is doing this intentionally, hoping for the latter - if the unexpanded players see those who buy into Reaper of Souls enjoying Adventure Mode and Nephalem Rifts, they may eventually feel forced to buy in to find that enjoyment for themselves.

Thanks for reading.

TL;DR - Reaper of Souls or nothing at all.
 

tougeznut

Diabloii.Net Member
I think there are still plenty of people that want to consider 2.0 as the finished D3 product they initially paid for. So, I understand why 2.0 forcing people to buy RoS would be frowned upon. It's like paying someone $60 and not getting what you paid for. Then them saying, "ok, here's version 2.0... better than our initial offering, but to actually enjoy it you'll have to pay me $40 more."

I've already purchased RoS, but I don't agree with them saying the "loot runs" are a D3V product, and then changing the name to get out of their promise.

sent from my GalaxySIII
 

Katniss

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't think RoS or bust is really an issue though.

If someone wants to keep playing D3... but not with something that is, "Hay guysss, look, MOAR D3!" then it seems almost counterproductive on their end.

I mean, I guess it's a corner case, but honestly, given how divisive D3 was and continues to be, are there really people out there that really want to play more D3, but won't buy RoS?
I think you raise a point that most of the people who would find boredom with D3 as it will be in its vanilla version going forward have probably already checked out, however, there are those players that still enjoy D3 currently and possibly don't have the means (money) or capability to upgrade for whatever reason. Just because they are in that position, should their version of the product be any less enjoyable? It's essentially taking what's best about the game and making it really good, but also putting a gate to entry on it, which would be fine - Blizzard is a business; they need to make money, so the expansion should be enticing - but the intended or unintended effect of how gutted the version they leave behind becomes an issue. It's maybe a niche problem, but it's still one that deserves some attention.
 

Disciple of Erebos

Diabloii.Net Member
I just wanted to say that in response to the initial post, you'd have much less of a problem if you were playing from 1-60 on Master difficulty. When PTR started, I made a new Wizard and did the 1-60, twinking only minimally (a crappy Int Hellfire Ring, the old Cain's set, and a 600 DPS weapon with lvl req -17 that my lvl 60 Wizard found while farming PTR). Overall, while I died more on Master than I would have on Normal, I never died until I was around lvl 50, and even then, I don't think I died more than 5 times on the road to lvl 60. It took much less time overall; I hit lvl 60 right before killing Siegebreaker Assault Beast. Even if I hadn't used a Hellfire Ring or the old Cain's set, I am quite sure that I would have been lvl 60 by the time I killed Diablo. As a result, I feel that leveling on Master wasn't that hard, and generally fixes your problem, at least in terms of leveling.
 

Disciple of Erebos

Diabloii.Net Member
Maybe it would have been different if I hadn't had a Hellfire Ring. That said, early game crafting gets around a lot of the problem you have, since every crafted item is, by default, a Smart Drop. Since you just need '+stats' and '+damage' in the early game, it's pretty easy to craft strong gear for yourself. Bottom line: it would probably be harder to do untwinked, with no Hellfire Ring, or mid-game '-lvl req' weapon, but crafts are generally good enough to quickly get you strong upgrades until you hit like lvl 50+, at which point you should be getting decent weapons/armors off the drop.
 

Katniss

Diabloii.Net Member
Maybe it would have been different if I hadn't had a Hellfire Ring. That said, early game crafting gets around a lot of the problem you have, since every crafted item is, by default, a Smart Drop. Since you just need '+stats' and '+damage' in the early game, it's pretty easy to craft strong gear for yourself. Bottom line: it would probably be harder to do untwinked, with no Hellfire Ring, or mid-game '-lvl req' weapon, but crafts are generally good enough to quickly get you strong upgrades until you hit like lvl 50+, at which point you should be getting decent weapons/armors off the drop.
You're right in theory, but crafting isn't where it needs to be for a brand new player to support themselves that way. You get what seems to be enough gold to make the crafts from random drops and quest rewards, but the crafting materials with the "less is more" system of drops are much harder to come by. I was salvaging everything and I was crafting VERY infrequently. I think your experience is going to differ in anecdotal evidence because you really didn't start fresh. I don't plan to spend more time on the PTR unfortunately, but if you're willing to do a brand new character on Master difficulty as if you just found Diablo 3 for the first time ever, I'd be very happy and curious to read that report.
 

sneakytails

Diabloii.Net Member
I like this idea, I think I will try this. 1-60 ,Solo, on the class of my choice in PTR, on master difficulty only (no matter what, no difficulty lowering!), un-twinked and starting with 0 gold.

Should be a good test of itemization and self found viability.
 

Raesene

Diabloii.Net Member
For me, loot 2.0 + crafting using smart drops fixes the game for me, and the rest is just gravy.

I hated having to use the AH to get gear that was tailored to my character, and I hated gear drops being something I had to sort through as being "sell on AH worthy" or "trash". Side grades in loot 1.0 were simply not a thing, simply finding an item that was even viable at all was like finding a unicorn.

Crafting was a system I was extremely exited about when it was first announced, and ended up being a huge disappointment. The AH was a huge reason for it, because your return on investment was simply better. You could craft 100 items and not get what you want, or you can spend that amount of gold (or even far far less) and get exactly what you want on the AH. Sure, you could say "I'll just pretend the AH doesn't exist and only craft instead," but then you feel like a chump.

Adventure mode being a expansion-only feature I think is a bit slimy, but doesn't affect me personally because I plan to play the expansion.

I couldn't really care less about BoA. I don't like finding cool items because I can sell them, I like finding cool items because finding cool items is fun. Being able to add them to my transmography database will be a nice little grail-style collection side-game as well.
 

Clavdivs

Diabloii.Net Member
As I, Clavdivs, The God, mentioned before, NOT implementing Loot2.0 and Skills2.0 in vanilla is a great inconvenience for Blizzard, from coding/server side - and they are obliged by law to keep them (servers for D3) working for some years more. So, D3 vanilla gets it.

RoS is too poor in content and features as it is, so everything has to be RoS-only. Or it would have to cost 20eur. Greed is an important motivator. Adding a couple more maps for Acts 1-4, some meaningful random quests (The God talks about RoS) and another class and follower (even just improving them!) would increase content value greatly. Or fixing weapon system. Or fixing useless runes and passives.

Also, The God godself played a vanilla PTR (on Hard, because not transferring any characters, otherwise would try divine hand at higher difficulties - though Expert seems as a fools choice, compared to Hard), and yes, there is a period of tedium when levelling up to 60. The God would put a legendary or set on Act bosses first kill for all difficulty levels, making them more worth playing.

Agreeable, difficulties are not balanced for vanilla, and are probably intended for RoS only - Mystic lack is noticeable (followers, items for other characters), and *that* is a feature whose lacking no mortal can defend!
 

sneakytails

Diabloii.Net Member
Well scratch that little test.

Started a new character on master difficulty on the PTR, a DH. Made sure I had no gold or crafting mats in the stash first before heading out into the wilderness. Totally naked character, played through to level 15 and only used what I could find, buy, or craft along the way.

I ended up doing 0 crafting due to lack of iridescent tears, those things are like endangered species at that point in the game. I did not have enough gold to buy rares and salvage those (and get the tears) so I could craft any rares. I ended up just using what I could find and that was pretty much squat until level 11 when a rare hand crossbow finally dropped in the weeping hollow, of course I needed the weapon and could not salvage it for a single tear. I needed 3 to craft a level 7 rare bow.

I also did not use any of my paragon points like what a totally new account would have.

The biggest thing was the extreme monster hit points and the very little gear progression creating very tedious game-play. It took me around 10-14 shots per zombie during the wretched mothers quest ,and elites were incredibly bad, my first pack took at least 10 minutes.
Things only got worse from that point onwards with more elite packs and hardly any drops, most of my gear was purchased from the vendors.

It probably took me around 3-4 hours just to get to the skeleton king level, heck just clearing the 3 crypt levels in the cemetery of the forgotten took at least 1 hour with one big battle with 3 elite packs taking most of that time.

There is no way to even play master unless you are seriously twinked, and this will not be possible for a new player as crafting is seriously overpriced in the early levels, the lack of rares and subsequent iridescent tears is appalling.

That cart blocking the way to the other vendors (until level 10 or so) also seriously needs to be moved, that added some serious extra frustration to my efforts and considering the gear progression in the early stages combined with the monster HP there is really no reason for it to be there.

In Diablo 2 LOD my favorite thing to do was to crank it up to players 8 and run a untwinked new character to Andariel before turning it down, but the monster hit points were just not so damn high in that game at that level, kind of ridiculous really how things ended up in Diablo 3.
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
I hope you posted your feedback on the official forums as well Katniss.

Story mode does indeed need to provide some goals or at least some incentives to explore, because there's really absolutely no structure for Classic players. I enjoyed this for a while as well, but aimlessly doing complete Act runs gets boring after a while. Boss runs provided clear targets in D2 and I think Story mode would need something similar as well. Obviously Adventure mode already got hold of the whole randomized boss runs, so maybe Story mode should have Cursed Chest events as a kind of endgame, with much larger rewards of course. Like Greater Horadric Cache level rewards. I'd imagine people would be actually looking for them then.
 

sneakytails

Diabloii.Net Member
I started finding a few Tears after level 15, Eventually, I was able to craft up 3 hand crossbows. A bit more rares too. Yeah, I think that playing a fresh account means starting in the lower difficulties and then gearing up and turning up the difficulty. More runs would be required as well to gear up, but that might add up to more than what some are willing to bear (like me!). It does feel a bit off, esp at below level 15.

I had become numb to this fact because almost all of my 60 gear is AH.

Essence's to Tears have been at least 5 to 1.
 

Eardianm

Diabloii.Net Member
Did they make changes to master HP recently? I tried the ptr a few weeks ago after maybe 40 hours total D3 (no 60s), wizard starting on master. Other than having to manage gear upgrades more often than I remembered in vanilla, I was cruising along at what I considered a decent pace into low 30s and end of act 2. I ofc stopped playing at this point out of general boredom of itemization regardless of the minor tweaks they've done, and went back to D2 for the 4th time. But I would consider the new difficulty system a plus unless they jacked it up already.
 

Lanthanide

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, I think that playing a fresh account means starting in the lower difficulties and then gearing up and turning up the difficulty.
Considering that Master doesn't unlock until you have 1 character reach level 60, you are indeed correct. The next patch changes this to unlock once you have 1 character kill Diablo.
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
I tried the ptr a few weeks ago after maybe 40 hours total D3 (no 60s), wizard starting on master.
If you don't have 60s then you definitely weren't playing on Master. You probably mean Expert, which is manageable with a new, untwinked character, although after about level 50 it can get rough. I've found that with a fresh account Hard can be finished (meaning you can reach level 60) relatively easily, but for anything above that twinking is heavily recommended (I consider Paragon points twinking). On Master and Torment it's probably a must. The good thing is that the difficulty tooltips state this clearly as well, which shows that Blizzard tested the leveling experience, at least as far as the difficulties are concerned. Crafting for example is indeed more problematic, the material requirements of items are completely unreasonable.

As for the new itemization, other than Legendaries things didn't change all that much. The new system isn't a revolutionary design, it's an evolutionary one. Things do get more interesting around level 45 though, when skill and elemental bonuses will routinely spawn on Rares in many slots. Depending on what Legendaries you got from Bosses secondary stats can become even more useful as well.
 
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