For that action when Puyol pulled him back so Iker got to the ball before Robben I absolutely can, he probably wouldn't make the same mistake twice.
With that logic, there wouldn't have been a 118th minute at all because of de Jong's brutal foul, as Hyarmenion already said.Chairnick said:
And that dutch player shouldn't have been on the field at that moment if he got the card he deserved this game, previous game AND the game before that.
Thus irony was defined, and many laughs followed.
Depends, if Puyol got yellow carded for his foul against Robben as he should be, that would be a pretty serious blow to Spain as well, since Pique was pretty much invisible last night.
Please say you're being ironic, I don't deny that they argued, but compared to spaniards, where for every foul there was there were 3 or 4 of them running to ref demanding a card, they were dead silent. I distinctly remember how many times Webb had to show them to back off. And no, Spain dived way more, they are just much better at simulating fouls (legacy of Barcelona) thus resulting in more yellows.
I don't have a problem with the better team winning. I do have a problem with manipulating with ref to the point where ref decisions decide the outcome of the game and not players themselves.The better team has won, but if it comforts you, keep on blaming others. Nobody but a few Dutch bullheads will listen, however
One would expect some examples (besides Von Bommel who can be a bit rough at times) with such bold statement. Pity you don't talk on that subject anymore, right?
Spain didn't deserved squat, up to semifinals they didn't show a thing, one million pointless passes, dribbling aimlessly and then one lucky sucker goal that guaranteed them passage into the next round. They got first real opponents in semifinals and if Mueller had been allowed to play, there's no way Spain would make it to the finals. And in the finals same story, Spain didn't do **** until they had a player more on the field and from 2 consecutive mistakes(?) from the ref they managed to do a counter attack to the shocked players of Netherlands and Andres Iniesta, who averages less than two goals per season, managed to put one in the goal. Deserved win indeed.
So just because I use that name for hack & slash rpg's and fps you're not going to take me seriously? bravo...
As said, another 2 Dutch players could have been sent off. That makes 8 players left for Holland, 10 for Spain.
No, I wasn't ironic at all. I saw Dutch players arguing wirth the referee very often and in a rather aggressive manner, even after blatantly obvious fouls. The Spanish players complained about being fouled all the time, the Dutch players complained about not getting away with their fouls.
That's not from the final, so it doesn't mean anything. I can remember the times when Holland was known for hidden fouls and unfair actions. These times seem to be over, so I'm not bringing them up here.I don't deny that they argued, but compared to spaniards, where for every foul there was there were 3 or 4 of them running to ref demanding a card, they were dead silent. I distinctly remember how many times Webb had to show them to back off. And no, Spain dived way more, they are just much better at simulating fouls (legacy of Barcelona) thus resulting in more yellows.[/quote
This particular picture comes to mind:
So you agree that Spain was the better team?
9 for spain because Iniesta should be red carded too for assaulting a player without ball deliberately and if ref would show some yellows for diving, probably one or two more.
I have yet to see a game without a single foul, yet I haven't seen this many complaining and arguing with the ref like took place from the Spanish side. And yes, arguing with the ref in that kind of manner did result in yellows most of the time.
It's not from the final (though the team is pretty much the same and this took place about 2 months ago) but what we saw in the final was pretty much the same story: Dutch made a foul (or not), Spaniards dived, rolled on the floor, exaggerating "injuries" so that the Dutch got yellow carded for what should've been a regular foul or none at all.
No I don't think Spain was a better team, because as I already stated they showed a ****ty game on this cup (far, far away from what we saw on Euro 2008 where they were the top without question), and they managed to get a goal in 117. minute because of 2 (or 3) consecutive ref mistakes.
I do believe that manipulating with ref such as diving in penalty area is punishable with yellow or red card. And I have yet to see a spontaneous dive. I do hope you were joking about the motive.
I don't think so. You can probably make up some kind of tolerence level where an additional Spanish player had been sent off. Likewise, if we theoretically turn all yellows into reds, it would have ended with twice as many Spanish players as Dutch ones.
I could see all fouls in slow motion, so no matter how much the players cried, the actions themselves justified the yellow cards. If you make a sliding tackle and you hit the opponent, it's yellow IMO... red in serious cases.
I haven't seen the first 15 minutes, so I don't know what happeend at that time. BTW, the referee and the linesmen are in contact with each other via something like mobile phones with headsets.
Spain was the better team during the final. If it was about the overall performance, many people would say that Germany should have become world champion. I'm not going to say that myself, as I'm obviously biased.
and I don't think that Holland did get any more or any less of a chance for it because the referee.Joking? I said that if it was on purpose, there must have been a motive. I was serious when asking what that motive might be. Maybe something like "Regarding football, the English hate the Dutch"? I'm not aware of anything like that.
Now it gets a bit silly. You are saying that Holland would have won if everything want fairly and the referee should have sent everybody off the field who deserved it?
So Zidane's headbutt also wasn't worth a red crad in the last wc for you?
No it's not if you go on the ball and not the player himself.
I know, but not in this case otherways he'd interrupt the game immediately, not after 10 seconds (he wasn't leaving Spain's attack to continue fyi).
If they were better, they'd score some goals in 90 minutes and not 3 minutes before penalty shots when they had 1 man advantage.
I didn't say that ref manipulated the game, I said that ref was manipulated by players to that extent that basically he and his decisions decided the outcome of the game. Not that's that super rare, but still.
I'm not saying they'd won, but things would probably take a different turn. For once, Puyol would be sent off for sure for holding back Robben and so on.
Dunno, do you also think that Argentina deserved winning against England in 1986 with Maradona's Hand of God?We are running in circles. Believe in what you want to believe, I and 90% of the world think otherwise. You won't talk me into believing that Holland deserved to win
Sure it was, but what's your point here?Chairnick said:
I underlined the part you decided to overlook.Chairnick said:
You can believe in whatever referee conspiracy you want to believe in. I don't believe that the referee acted just on complaints of Spanish players.Chairnick said:
Come on,what kind of argument is that? Can't you see what a cheap excuse it is?Chairnick said:
I could say as well that the Dutch players protested so aggressively that the referee believed for a rather long time that he cannot send Dutch players off the field without losing control over the game.Chairnick said:
For each foul of Spanish players you can find 1-2 which were more severe and brutal.Chairnick said:
Again, I'm not sure in which way that is a reply to what I wrote, but whatever....Chairnick said:
That part about Iniesta?
If you hit the player after the ball it still isn't yellow.
Why do you constantly try to bring conspiracies to this debate? Ref was fooled by spanish player on the ground and made a call in favor of Spain without solid evidence to do so.
LOL, then with your logic Slovenian squad is better then German if we have 11 and you have 7 players on the field, so we deserve third place more than you. Talk about arguments.
What?
But they were not directly preventing opponent to score a goal. Besides, you are familiar with the last defender rule, right?
Why would they deserve to win only because it was a spectacular goal? England scored too. Playing with hand is not allowed so not, they didn't deserve to win.
I thought you said a few posts ago you'll shut up on that subject? Also LOL on common sense, I wonder what were your thoughts when Inter massacred Barcelona this season.@krischan :
It's fanboy vs common sense, you now probably realise why I didn't want to comment further
I will not argue further big brother! :yes:..... but now that I've been denied the permission I suddenly feel the vehement urge to spill out a page of meaningless and deranged insults.. but I won't.
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