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Pre-Iraq War Memo Leaked

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by DrunkCajun, May 11, 2005.

  1. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    Pre-Iraq War Memo Leaked

    Surprised I haven't heard a lick about this in the US media. Has Rathergate scared the media so much they're afraid to report the news, or is the liberal media an absolute myth?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607,00.html

     
  2. Jimi-

    Jimi- Diabloii.Net Member

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    thats a long article
     
  3. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    I don't quite know what to make of this. If it is truth, then we are indeed being duped by our own government and have gotten ourselves into quite a mess not only with Iraq but with the rest of the world.

    How to extricate ourselves?

    I'm eagerly awaiting llad's I-Told-You-So response to this.
     
  4. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm almost proud to be British after reading that. We might not be good at much any more, but our Govenment can be as sneaky, underhanded and generally corrupt as the best of them...
     
  5. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    Interestingly, varying my search terms has come across what appears to be an article distributed by Agence France Press on May 1 reporting that this memo was declared a forgery after a police investigation, but I've yet to find a single reputable news agency carrying the story. The story above, on the other hand, I've seen in several reputable press outlets. Not really sure what the deal is.

    EDIT: A search for tony blair iraq memo forged on google news only returns a handful of rather sketchy hits: http://news.google.com/news?q=tony blair iraq memo forged&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

    Removing the word "forged" returns 10 pages worth of stories: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=tony+blair+iraq+memo&btnG=Search+News
     
  6. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Perhaps there is concern about the legitimacy of the memo. -oops you've responded already.

    EDIT - taking another look, there seems to be some confusion in the tenses used, plus it doesn't read much like bureaucratese. These things generally don't have a big juicy "I've Gotta Secret" heading; they have a big X on the cover sheet and small headers & footers. If you're high enough level to read them, then you know full well what happens if you're caught stuffing them in your socks & underwear to take home.

    I bet there's a lot more care being exercised regarding memos that appear just in time to affect elections (ahem). If we don't hear anything further, my sleep patterns won't be affected.
     
  7. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thats probably because the whole Attorney General advice issue has been pretty big over here (not sure how much of our news filters over the Atlantic...), and the govenments more leaky than a sieve at the moment (ie. many leaked memo stories).

    I have to admit this is the first time I've heard of an apparently forged memo, so I suspect most of the news agencies over here pretty much ignored it as soon as it was declared forged (hence the small number of hits for it...).

    Also none of the faked memo stories relate the memo that you started this thread off with, so it still stands as far as I'm concerned.
     
  8. Geeno

    Geeno Diabloii.Net Member

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    I heard a couple weeks ago that this was very old news over in the UK and the likes.
     
  9. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom Diabloii.Net Member

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    The Attorney Generals advice thing has been simmering away for 3 weeks or so, but has pretty much faded out of view since the election.

    I think most people over here realise we were lied to in order to get us to go to war, but we'll never be able to conculsively prove it, so theres not much point worrying about it...

    Also in response to jmervyn, Blair has give a couple of interviews about this leaked memo, and hasn't claimed its a forgery.
     
  10. Amra

    Amra Diabloii.Net Member

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    It has been in the US media - TV - some. Not a lot, but some.
     
  11. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    So we're in "Have you stopped beating your wife?" territory already? Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

    Oh, and to beat Ill to the punch, here's what Juanito says:
    http://www.juancole.com/2005/05/secret-british-memo-shows-bush.html
     
  12. Ranger14

    Ranger14 Diabloii.Net Member

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    I don't trust "secret" memos and documents too much. Based on the lack of attention to it out there in the media, I don't take it at face value. Some of it may not surprise me, but the one thing it does say, whether they pushed the issue further than they should of, they felt Hussein and Iraq were a threat. So even if they pushed the envelope too far with the WMD claims,etc. They did genuinely feel they were a threat.
     
  13. KnightFall

    KnightFall Diabloii.Net Member

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    Interesting reading...

    How true/real any of it is, is anyones guess...

    KnightFall
     
  14. dirkdig

    dirkdig Diabloii.Net Member

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    I can't for the life of me figure out why it's written in past tense if it's supposed to be before Iraq. I have doubts as to its validity.
     
  15. maccool

    maccool Diabloii.Net Member

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    It's not really news for the simple reason that people's minds have been made up about the Iraq situation for too long. Well, that and the general populace is either unable or unwilling to look at new information and perhaps, horror of horrors, say, "Hmmm, maybe I was wrong."

    Because, you know the worst possible thing you could ever do in your life would be to admit wrongdoing. You can wear white after Labor Day, spit on the sidewalk, or beat your wife/dog/kids, but you can never ever admit that what you're doing is wrong - that would be unAmerican.

    To some this memo is unequivocal proof of the administration's bald-faced lies and secret devil pacts to obtain oil, to others it's an obvious forgery in a pathetic attempt to discredit all the good work the U.S. has been doing in Iraq, restoring freedom and democracy to people who have been under the yoke of opression for so long. To me, it's more interesting to watch the reactions.
     
  16. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom Diabloii.Net Member

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    Sorry, I'm not entirely sure what your trying to say with this? All I was trying to say is that if it was just made, up sure Blair wouldn't have bothered giving interviews on it, and just said it was forged.

    Although as the info in the leaked memo isn't overly damning, it wouldn't suprise me if even if it was made up, the govenment would be happy to treat it as real.

    Its written in the past tense because its a effectively minutes of a meeting on the Iraq subject. Hence the events described happen in the past from the time of writing.
     
  17. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Bureaucracies generally move at geological speed, particularly once something comes into the public domain - the memo needs to be examined, the leak located & slaughtered, etc. etc. Blair would NEVER have commented in public on something like this unless there's an official position; just imagine how scandalous it would be if, say, someone was to go before the U.N. and make an official presentation on material that turned out wouldn't stand up in international court?

    Er, wait a minute :D

    Again, this casts a very bad light on the material. Writing a memorandum for record that makes suppositions of this nature seems more than a little unusual; usually there would be either a blow-by-blow recounting (or tape), or there would be the sort of summary that you see at the very end without all the 'smoking gun' expository stuff. Letting opinion into official documentation can land you in a world of hurt - something that is certain for the 'author' Rycroft if he spun something in a way that was unintended, then published his spin.
     
  18. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    At the same time, merv, after observing the impact (or really the lack thereof) of the "memo" during the Bush/Kerry election cycle, do you think that the Brits would still decide that "hey, we should forge a memo to drag Blair down, even if it didn't work in the US!"

    I dunno. I agree that there's something sketchy about the memo, but I'm not willing to write it off so easily. And you know I'm not one to buy into tinfoil BS, either. I just think that if the memo were hogwash, or if that information was so far off from what might have been in an official memo at the time, someone on Blair's crew woulda figured it out before he gave public interviews on the matter and didn't dismiss it as false. If they couldn't brief him on the matter in time, they weren't doing their jobs properly and shouldn't be there in the first place.
     
  19. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks DC, you just saved me a lot of typing.
     
  20. llad12

    llad12 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Sorry, Jman. I had already linked Juan Cole's statement on this memo in an earlier thread, but apparently it went right past most of you.



    Cole's additional comments on the article are below:

    ---------

    It did not surprise me.

    If you had read Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke, you would have known how NeoCons like Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had long planned on such an invasion ... that they were utilizing the tragedy of 9/11 as a catalyst for their long-awaited goal.

    Clarke was clear in his book that Bush demanded he find a link between Saddam/Al Qaeda/9-11.

    Per Clarke:

    Later when Clarke completed and submitted an additional report to Bush's presidential aides (which stated, once again, that there was no credible ties between Saddam and al Qaeda) , they rejected it and told him: "Wrong answer."

    ----------

    I can't vouch for the authenticity of this latest memo, but it shouldn't surprise you about the intent of this administration. They used any and all means to gather support for this invasion. It was pre-determined ... all the way.
     

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