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Praise to BNetters

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by TurinT, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. TurinT

    TurinT IncGamers Member

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    Praise to BNetters

    This post was actually something I was typing up within the now locked items for cash thread. Just two mores minutes Cattleya! :) I thought about scraping it, but I figured I'd share anyhows.

    This will probably be another example of me not fully utilizing my brain before I speak, but oh well...

    Many people in the SPF prides themselves on doing things in D2 that (at some point) were considered as "can't be done" or "why would you ever want to try it?". You guys are the innovators, the researchers, the ones who stretch the limits of D2 possibility. This attitude does exist on the realms, but it tends to be overshadowed by [fill in everything odd you've ever read in a pub baal game]. Now the individuals who spout out said delicious tidbits of D2 wisdom *cough* are probably the same people who buy their items and characters, without much regard for the painstaking process of leveling and working the game untwinked etc etc...

    But when it comes down to it, is their a difference in enjoyment of the game between someone who buys success versus someone who spends time for it? I think it's all relative to what you want out of the experience.

    I would also like to say that here in the SPF there ought to be a little more praise for our BNetting counterparts. Without the seemingly vast legion of
    l33t-speaking-item-buyers as reminders, SPF accomplishments wouldn't be nearly as fantastic as they are.
     
  2. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Well, here is a little background info on my own experiences. I left b.net because of all the aggro and mindless playing in pubby b.net games. I then found this place, and thought, oh wow! Fantastic, there are people who actually play this game the way it's meant to be played. At that stage, I was still in recovery from b.net, and not being familiar with the other forums, I assumed, from my pubby experience, that all b.net players were, well... crap.

    I have since branched out from this forum into the other forums, and over the months, I have come to appreciate that b.net is not completely filled with, well... the stereotypical b.net players. If I may be so bold, and only to name a few people in the other forums amongst many b.net players, Kiba and his werewolves, Ilkori and his assassins, Magechick and his sorcs, Yogirat and his zons. These players are extremely well-knowledged, and although I have not had the benefit of seeing them in action, I have no doubt that they have levels of skill on par with any veteran SP'er. And indeed, the b.net mentality is not solely confined to b.net. This forum is not all roses and cupcakes either.

    It seems that this forum has an entrenched habit of looking down on b.net players, at least amongst some members. I myself was guilty of this at an earlier point, though I have come to realise the error of my ways. Like I said, the experienced players in the other forums (and those who aren't even on these forums) deserve great praise, and their accomplishments are as good as those on here.

    And although I am loath to re-visit the topic in the closed thread (not out of fear, but out of weariness), allow me to state that I started it purely on the grounds that I personally would not spend real money on buying cyber-stuff. My money is hard-earned, and in my eyes, I could not spend that money on buying things that are not tangible. If others have a different view, then I had hoped that thread would have encouraged them to post their views, for me (and others) to appreciate a different point of view. That thread was in no way meant as a vehicle for b.net bashing, although it may appear to be the case at first glance.

    And yes, people can do what they like to enjoy this game, so long as it does not compromise others' enjoyment of said game. But if people are willing to spend, for example, almost $60 on an item, that is something that I personally do not understand, and which was something I had hoped to come to understand more, had someone who was on that side of the fence, posted and explained.
     
  3. Katalaeia

    Katalaeia IncGamers Member

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    :hide:

    I play on Bnet. I also play SP. I don't use "l33t" speak, instead preferring to at least attempt at proper spelling and grammar. I've never bought items, because to me it cheapens the game experience.

    I play Bnet the same way I played SP before I discovered Bnet, and now that I'm rediscovering SP, nothing has changed. I find my own stuff, or trade for new stuff using stuff I found myself.

    I dislike all the venom directed at Bnet, but I understand perfectly well where it comes from and why. Bnet is public, and what happens there is public and well known, so it catches a lot of flack and bad press. SP is only public when individual players choose to make it so - I'm sure hundreds or thousands of players play SP and never find these forums, and hack/dupe/cheat/etc on their own time.

    Do I think Bnet players are "better" than SP? No.
    Do I think SP players are "better" than Bnetters? No.

    I respect players of both types who (as TurinT put it) innovate, research, and stretch the limits of D2 possibility. The players who open up new paths for us to walk - maybe a character build no one thought would ever work. I probably spend as much time reading the forums as I do playing, because I truly enjoy watching people flex their brains to see what they can make work in the game.
     
  4. bill_n_opus

    bill_n_opus IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I hear what you're saying ... that last part was a bit of a stretch but I understand the point you're making.

    I'm not sure of the word "praise" is in the correct context ... i'm thinking more of "consideration of Bnet and their existence" is more of a comparative phrase that highlights the positive attributes of the SPF.

    I also understand that regardless if someone pays 20 bucks for their +2 skills Arkaine's Valor or 30 bucks for whatever runeword is potentially a moot point if that person is getting enjoyment out of Diablo.

    Money well spent? Well, that's all relative.

    If Bill Gates was to spend 20 bucks for an Arkaine's Valor it may not be that big of a deal because:

    - he's rich, to say the least, so 20 bucks to him is like 2 cents (or less) to us.
    - he may have been trying like mad to find a Valor and so in the end decided that it was an executive decision to buy one to make him happy. Yeah, sure, whatever. :laugh: But potentially an arguable situation.

    Now, if some 15 year old guy spends 20 bucks on a +2 Valor based on a 5 dollar an hour gas jockey job or flipping burgers at a fast food outlet (nothing wrong with those jobs I might add - I worked at a gas station when I was 15 making minimum wage) then we might think he's nutso ... but if he truly is happy with said purchase then who are we to question?

    Now, if some 15 year old who exhibits arrogance and incompetence and plain ignorance spends 20 bucks on said Valor ... and acts like a jacka** then we'd be all over that guy with negative comments and labelling ... and we'd probably be right.

    Anyways, that's my take. I'm tired and i'm off to bed! Have a great Wednesday everyone.
     
  5. Randall

    Randall IncGamers Member

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    @Katalaeia: It was compare-ing SPF to BNet, not SP to BNet.
    If you want to know what the average SP does, check open BNet. (it's worse than closed BNet)

    If I would compare this, it would be:

    average BNet player < average SPF player

    But only comparing the averages, it's not that BNet does not have good players, they just have loads more of the not so good players.
     
  6. SeeiN2StarS

    SeeiN2StarS IncGamers Member

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    I play B.net still (ya i admit it). I favor SP much more. But my friends belive that B.net is better. So I created a HC Char with them and we run through that. Because they dont want to make a SP char. :)
     
  7. Arreat_mercenary

    Arreat_mercenary IncGamers Member

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    @TurinT: You may not be aware of this, because you are relatively new, but a good part of the SPF players are b.net refugees.

    I have experienced it myself, and I don't regret at all converting from b.net to SP. This so called "hatred" to B.net is, to my point of view, deserved. Pk-ing, TPPK, hacks, cheats, dupes, 1337 sp34k, etc. has made b.net far from the word: enjoyable.

    That there are good players? Of course there are! But these players play on their own or only with their trusted buddies, so finding them is sometimes near to impossible.

    But about "praising" B.net players........ that's not something you're going to see from me or from most SPF veterans. You should see what b.net thinks of SP..........
     
  8. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    I played B.net for years and loved it while my friends were part of it when they stopped playing and I stopped for awhile then came back it had all changed to the point where I didnt want to be part of it at all. I even had a large clan for a couple of years but now I love the fresh challange and the people who play on the spf... So I will say this praise the b.net guys and girls who stick it out and play clean.
     
  9. Llathias

    Llathias Banned

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    I don't think it's that bad that people pay money to obtain high end items without playing for hours to get them. You see, they could play day and night, level their characters and find nifty items, and still pay money nonetheless!* :shocked:



    *read: WoW
     
  10. Ashmer Amadeus

    Ashmer Amadeus IncGamers Member

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    I met my wife working at McDonalds. To be on topic, I used to play on battle.net. I gave it up because I played on Bnet pretty much as single player. The majority of people I interacted with were jerks. I play with some people I knew in person, and that was fun. But I have just as much fun playing TCP/IP with people here. And I've learned much more about the game since joining the SPF then I did in all the time I spent on Bnet. I have also done SP much more then Bnet because for quite a while I didn't have the net so SP was the only option. I believe that most people (8 in 10 or more) on battle.net are jerks, but I also believe that there are good people there. And I don't care for the hassle of finding the good ones amonst the bad when we have plenty of good ones here. (In a side note: If I were to play on Bnet, I would assume that everything I had, that I didn't find myself was tainted somehow. Here, I assume that everything is legit. I realize the price I've paid is small, but some people have lost an incredable amount of stuff. Maybe that is a plus to playing on Bnet?)
     
  11. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Personally, I believe that the major difference between bnet and SP is the demographics of the players, which has a corresponding impact on play.

    Looking at the recent poll on the age of the SPF, it would appear the average was just below 30; I would expect a similar poll on bnet to produce a result a little over half of that number.

    While SP'ers want characters that succeed, they appear to be more willing to try alternative builds, and be past the "OMG I need l33t itamz cuz my friend has 1" stage. The peer-pressure to which most teenagers seem to buckle, seems to cause the "paying real money" scenario. I seriously doubt whether anyone a little older would hand over their hard earned cash for something as transient as a few pixels. "eBotZ or a two weeker in Bermuda ... hmmm". (Extreme example, but you get the idea.)

    Of course, an additional factor is anonymity. How much easier to spam "n00bz" when you are not face to face with someone who could be your older brother or father. Flame wars on this Forum show how easily mis-understandings and rudeness and can arise even amongst adults; combine this with the average age of a bnetter and who can expect anything else than a "I don't care, stuff you" attitude.

    I would suggest SP'ers play for fun, to experiment and to prove they can do something: look at feats such at the untwinked grailers, superdaves' amazon and the variety of tournements.

    Whether SP or bnet is better is a moot point. They are different and different people will prefer one or the other depending on their own personality. Providing respect is at the foremost of any interaction, it shouldn't make a difference whether that is on SP or bnet. (For the record, 'interaction' includes 'hacking'.)

    But I don't believe you can assume someone is 'good because they SP' or 'obviously hack because they are bnet'. Innocent until proven guilty and there are morons everywhere.

    Edit: @Frostburn - I wasn't saying NO bnetter is innovative/intelligent/helpful. I was saying on balance the demographics of SP'ers tend to lead them to be more experimental.
     
  12. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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  13. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    The problem with Bnet is it is so easy to be a jerk and get away with it, and most people on there tend to be very opinionated and even when they are blatantly wrong they will fight their cause to the bitter end.

    I just found it amusing in the end arguing with people - apparently meteor nerfs experience and the like, also, most characters that you play suck (including skelliemancers and lightning sorcs :rolleyes: )

    I ended up finding some good guys to play with though - some from these forums and some randomly in game - people who I could trust giving my most expensive items to, even though I didn't really know them.

    There are some decent people out there, you just don't tend to see them as your screen is full of either 'tp plz', 'noob' or 'd2l33titamz.com' etc.

    My view is you can't brand all bnetters as morons who can't play the game without their leet items and hacks, you shouldn't judge everybody by the miniority's standard.

    Edit at FrostBurn's Post: Innovative yes, but could you do it legit, not really. 16060 armor and a 40/15 Vamp Gaze is a bit excessive. Also, I've just noticed the Infinity Golem :shocked: He must play on one of the US Servers where you can farm the countess for a couple of hours and get an Enigma...
     
  14. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Well, the standards on b.net are different from SP. In an environment where virtually everything is duped or duped-tainted, it is difficult not to conform. From their point of view, they are merely 'making a niche for themselves' in a 'less than ideal world' (at least by the SPF's vaunted standards). But that debate has been covered in the past, and I'm not trying to revive it. I'm just pointing out that is how it works in their world.

    Maybe this conforms more to legitness (and is still innovative): http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=502182
     
  15. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Indeed, thats a nice build, was considering making one in HC but I think it would be too suicidal for me :smiley:

    I know where you are coming from though, even though the characters aren't legit they are still interesting, try a search for Triekje's Auradin (in Pally Forum somewhere a year back probably), was quite a nice character to fight alongside :smiley:
     
  16. TheNix

    TheNix IncGamers Member

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    I'd like to heap praise, several tonnes of it dropped from a great height, on the basta.... bnetter who got into a muling game of mine, I didn't think I'd need a password :duh: , and stole low level set items, a seal and a lightbrand, while I was changing characters. I hadn't played bnet since D1 days, but I'm glad the consideration and general friendliness hasn't changed.
     
  17. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    I'd play on B.net if I found a group of people who would create an isolated community or guild where you could only play solo or with people from the guild. They'd have to play by my rules, and that pretty much kills it. No one really wants to play by someone else's rules. It's the public on Bnet that I can't stand... but a private community that uses Bnet might make sense to me.
     
  18. Lyndis

    Lyndis IncGamers Member

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    I actually wish closed bnet and singleplayer could be accessable both to the same chars. From what I've read I'd love the mentality of SP. For example, on bnet once I get into Hell difficulty, I'd check the games list and I'd see NOTHING but trade games. Everybody was rushing and rushing to get to Hell,a nd once they get there, they do nothing but trade! I wanted a good ol 8-player slugfest clearing paths thru swarms of enemy to finally sink my blade into Diablo's gut! But no, all I see are trade games, the occasional baal games, and rarely a rushing for Forge offer. I'd love to be able to take my character to SP and play with people like the people in the SPF, but at the same time I'd like to have the option of getting rushed if I feel bored with a particular part. Too bad you can't do both unless you want to play in opne bnet, which I wouldn't touch with a 11-foot pole.
     
  19. pancakeman

    pancakeman IncGamers Member

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    I must say that FrostBurn and kat have good points.
    I am a b.netter, one who does not use 1337-5p34k or PK, one who is currently thinking up the most innovative build they have ever considered, and one who also dislikes the b.net bashing. I play it because I am too impatient to play SP, and I enjoy company on baal runs or trist games. I never trade for items anymore, I must admit that that has become an absurd shadow of what trading was meant to be. However, this does not mean that we are all maphacking, item-buying, 1337-speaking PKers.
     
  20. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    OMG! Someone's actually being nice to me! :shocked: Are the standards here slipping??

    Thank you pancakeman.
     

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