Potential Tournament - 5 Stages of Grief (Input/feedback thread)

Pb_pal

Diabloii.Net Member
It's been a while since we've had a new standard SPF-style HC, single pass tournament so I figured I'd take a little survey and see if there was any interest since there seems to be a bit of a resurgence of tournament play as of late.

I've had this idea bouncing around for a while now, and decided to flesh it out more completely and see how it goes. It's a bit of a catch-all type tournament, little bits of some of my favourite styles of tournaments that have happened over the years (Random, All Alone, Naked, etc). Okay okay, enough chatting, let's get down to the rules. These are subject to input, if there is consensus to change something I'm more than willing.

The 5 Stages of Grief Tournament:

Basically each act will represent one of the five stages of grief as defined by the Kubler-Ross Model, with rule/restriction changes happening each time you reach a new act. If this tournament goes ahead, I will flesh these out more fully in the proper write-up, but this should give you enough of an idea to understand and decide if you want to take part.

Standard rules apply of HC/single-pass/1.10+ etc etc.
General Rules:


1. HC, or SC with disqualification upon first death (feel free to continue to update, although you cannot win the tournament.)

2. Single-pass, untwinked only. (You may, of course, sprint from a WP to an uncleared area when starting a new session. Keep kills to an absolute minimum while maintaining safety, but all drops are off limits)

3. ATMA/GoMule may be used as an extended stash (you may also hot-mule off, as long as you adhere to the rules. Please take extra care to avoid any problems, and you must declare if you are using it (as per the forum rules). I will be. Here is the relevant quote from the SPF Rules FAQ:

Hotmuling


Hot muling is muling while the character you are muling from is in game. It's rarely done because of the risk of creating duplicate items (aka 'duping'). It's usually done with Gheeds because you can only carry one at a time. This is acceptable but should be declared and care must be taken so that the items are not duped.


So you are playing Teagan and she has a Gheeds. Another Unique charm drops.


Minimize to desktop and open ATMA or GoMule. You open Teagan and another character which doesn't have a Gheeds or any stash file.

You move Teagan's Gheeds to the other character or stash. You save that file and exit ATMA or GoMule.

Back in game you drop Teagans identified Gheeds on the ground and pick up the UnID'd one.

You play as normal and when you next exit you can put the 'new' Gheeds in the stash and get the first one back. Same as you would swap any other item.



However, it is not - and never has been - acceptable to restore backups with the intention of having a second chance at making an item whether through cubing sockets, crafting or making runewords. Similarly if you trade an item away, you delete the one on your hard drive. Duping is NOT acceptable.


4. You may re-enter as many times as you wish, or enter multiple characters at once. You may sign-up any time.

5. Version 1.10+, RRM/RWM/FAM allowed. No MP, no Trading.

6. Any /players setting may be used at any time.

7. Save + Exit to avoid death is NOT allowed, and results in disqualification from the tournament. (you may, however, S+E if running from a previously cleared area and you get yourself in trouble.)

8. I will make and maintain a table with progress. This will hopefully eliminate mix-ups and missed updates (it's also less work for you!).

Tournament-specific rules:

1. No revisiting prior acts or difficulties. We move forward through the grieving process only. This means if you don't collect your quest reward before leaving the act, it's gone for good.
2. You may only gamble in Act 3 (See act-specific rules)
3. No re-specs

Act-specific rules:

Ah, the meat of the tournament. As mentioned above, each act will exist in its own bubble with each presenting a unique challenge to the hero. Only General (and Tournament-specific) rules carry over between acts.

Act 1: Denial
You have 2 options in this Act. You can either:

1. Deny all items found during this act (ie. you can't pick anything up). This means you and the merc will be completely naked until you reach the desert. Exceptions: you can buy pots/scrolls/keys and pick up gold for repairs/merc resurections (though you cannot sell any items), but that's it. You may keep the quest rewards (Atma ring, imbue) but may not equip them until Act 2.

-OR-

1. Deny all skill/stat point placement for the entire act. Obviously this cannot apply to the merc, so it's character only. You'll have to get creative if you want to equip some of the better items!

Note: You make your choice upon creating the character and it applies to ALL THREE DIFFICULTIES. Weigh your options, it may be easier to go naked in normal, but do you want to sacrifice a potentially game-breaking drop in Hell?

Act 2: Anger
1. You MUST assign any unused skill/stat points immediately upon reaching Lut Gholein (anger leads to rash decisions). These initial points can be placed anywhere you like, however;
2. Any subsequent stat/skill points earned (through leveling or quest rewards) during this act must be used immediately. Skill points can go wherever you want, but stat points MUST be into your build's "offensive" stat.
  • Strength for melee classes
  • Dex for Bowazons, should there be any
  • Energy for all spell-based Casters

Act 3: Bargaining
This act is all about gambling (both literally and figuratively)

1. You may only gamble for gear in this act
- No shopping of weapons and armour while in Act 3 (selling is okay).
- No gambling while in any other acts
- Exceptions: You may keep/use all quest rewards from this act.

2. All skill/stat points earned must be randomly assigned and allocated before leaving the Act. You can do it right away upon gaining them, or before you step through the portal, but you must leave Act 3 with 0 saved points.
- Traditionally tournaments have either done it one point at a time or all 5 stat points with one roll. Choose whichever method you'd like, if you want to save up 20 points and roll them all in one go hoping for Vit, more power to you. As long as it's random, it doesn't matter.

3. You may bargain (sacrifice) the Golden Bird and/or Lam Esen's Tome in exchange for one level's worth of points (5 stat and 1 skill point) allocated however you wish (ie. one non-random level up). You can sacrifice whichever you want, or neither, or both. It's up to you.


Act 4: Depression (Isolation, refusing visitors)
1. No NPC interaction. This means no shopping/selling/gambling/repairing or merc resurrection whatsoever (yes, even potions!), so be careful and save up those Orts/Rals!
- Exceptions:
  • Tyrael at the end of the act to travel to Harrogath, you may also collect your Izual skill points at this time.
  • Jamella will act as a sort of "fixed well". You may click her to heal your character/merc at any time, but that's the extent of the interaction allowed. This is to even the playing field in the sense that you should not lose access to a well just because it's in a previously cleared area that has been repopulated by monsters in a new game. Also, you're not just sitting there waiting for a well to regenerate while Diablo runs around waiting for you to come back.
  • You may use Deckard Cain to identify items throughout the act.

Act 5: Acceptance
All bets are off! No act-specific rules here, you've broken through the hardest part so make that final push to victory. The Cow level is optional, but falls under Act 5's rules (or rather, lack thereof) should you choose to clear it.
Note: Gambling is still forbidden in Act 5 as it falls under the Tournament-specific rules.

--

This tournament will be difficult, and is designed as such on purpose.

So what do you guys think? Are you interested in participating? Any rules seem too crazy or too lenient? I have no set time-frame to get this started, so let me know if you'd like to get this going right away and we can do that (as soon as I finish the writeupo_O). My playtime is next to nil right now (and for the foreseeable future), but I'd love to host this anyways, even if I don't participate right away.
 
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Pb_pal

Diabloii.Net Member
any /p setting is fine, basically all the standard tournament rules would apply. Single pass, HC (or elimination on 1st SC death), any /p setting, no respec. I've added them to the original post for clarity (under the spoiler).

For random skills/stats, you essentially assign a value to all available skills/stats and then use a random number generator to "roll". So for stats, str=1, dex=2, vit=3, en=4, then head somewhere like this. Fill in the values you want and voila. You can do this process for each point, or one roll for all points during a level up, or whatever combination you want.

Skills get a bit trickier, but essentially you assign a number to all available (white, clickable) skill options, and roll using that number.

If I'm being too confusing, check out some of the old Random Tournaments and they will likely explain the process better in there.
 

djmbbandie

Diabloii.Net Member
This one actually sounds really interesting. May be in but will be starting probably in October if in (this month is large overtime amounts month) and I would have a ton of thinking about a viable character.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
Hmm, definitely very interesting concept !!! Well done.

Will I join? Not sure. I'm all over PoE atm, and still want to return to my 99er and my sept at the same time, while putting quite some time in running, so I definitely shouldn't. But it's such an interesting concept ...
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
Sounds quite interesting, although I am not sure if I want to commit myself to yet another character. Still, it'd give me a chance to revisit a favourite build and it's always fun to be a couple of players sharing their progress in the thread.

Pretty much as All Alone in Act IV...scary!

Question: if one chooses to deny any item found in Act I, does that include the starter gear in Normal? If it does, then we won't have anything to imbue (which we must do before leaving).
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
Maybe I'm missing something? But, seems to me the A1 denial of skills/stats would be much easier than items?

Of course, almost all my characters usually have 50+ unused stats, and possibly a few unused skill points by the time they finish..
 

Southpaw8668

Diabloii.Net Member
This sounds pretty challenging, but fun so count me in. Now I just need to determine what hero I'm willing to start with. I'm ready to start right away.
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
OMG!! Just created first HC character ever. I'm kinda scared! :eek:
Screenshot793.jpg

Edit: Luctus (grief/sorrow) - A1 denial of skills/stats. I know Necro is kinda easy, but it's my first HC character. And, I figured wouldn't lose too many skill points with random assignment. Just start with all SM+RS, and see where the points fall from A3. Can always go Poison or Bone, Curses will be fine with 1 point, and Summon points would be fine as well.
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
Don't be scared, the actual tournament thread hasn't started.. practice run!
Ahh.. didn't know that this would be official. I better hold off on playing until this gets underway then. And, I just picked up this nice club in the Den! Very nice dmg, considering you're dealing with only 15 str..
Screenshot794.jpg
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
I was thinking that Act 2 might need some extra restrictions if you choose the no-gear route in act 1. The no-skill/stat points is tied to part of the restriction in Act 2, while the no-gear one isn't. Not sure what would be a good rule though.
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
I was thinking that Act 2 might need some extra restrictions if you choose the no-gear route in act 1. The no-skill/stat points is tied to part of the restriction in Act 2, while the no-gear one isn't. Not sure what would be a good rule though.
I do not see any ties here. Once you reach the act, you must spend the stat-/skill points but do so freely. During the act, there is not much difference between the choices you can make in act 1. The no-pickup variant will be poorer in the beginning but
- drops in Act I are pretty meh compared to those in Act II
- shop gear in Act I is pretty meh compared to Act II
- you still can't gamble in either act


If I decide to join, I will probably play a Blaze Sorc, and will try to make a convincing case that Vitality is that build's main offensive stat. Blaze demands extremely little in terms of energy/mana but more Vit -> more stamina -> can run for a longer time. She is also more offensive-oriented if she has the life to physically stand in the way to keep monsters from leaving a hot Blaze patch.
 

NamelessPenguin

Diabloii.Net Member
@IronArrow Coming from a dude who recently started a WW barb, I sure as hell would not go with this char, as beating Duriel gets nearly impossible with those restrictions. But you may have mad haXX0r skills that I am not aware of :) My barb skills may also be sub par, though...
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
@IronArrow Coming from a dude who recently started a WW barb, I sure as hell would not go with this char, as beating Duriel gets nearly impossible with those restrictions. But you may have mad haXX0r skills that I am not aware of :) My barb skills may also be sub par, though...
Just because it's not your main skill, there is nothing stopping a Barb from purchasing a Bone Shield of Deflection and using Concentrate in the Duriel fight. Most of Duriel's damage in the current version comes from Jabbing with Holy Freeze hits. If you get 35% cold resist on gear and drink a bunch af thawing potions, he can't do much fast damage to you, especially if you keep him Battle Cry-ed as well.
 

Pb_pal

Diabloii.Net Member
Question: if one chooses to deny any item found in Act I, does that include the starter gear in Normal? If it does, then we won't have anything to imbue (which we must do before leaving).
Well this is something I didn't think about. I think it stays more in theme to ditch the starting gear, but I can add a caveat in that you may keep a single item with which to imbue, though you still can't use it until A2.

I was thinking that Act 2 might need some extra restrictions if you choose the no-gear route in act 1. The no-skill/stat points is tied to part of the restriction in Act 2, while the no-gear one isn't. Not sure what would be a good rule though.
jian nailed it in that they aren't actually connected. As he states, the no-gear characters will be poorer (both in gear and gold), but that will be the only difference. The no-stat variatn has to assign all skill/stat points upon entering Lut Gholein.

If I decide to join, I will probably play a Blaze Sorc, and will try to make a convincing case that Vitality is that build's main offensive stat. Blaze demands extremely little in terms of energy/mana but more Vit -> more stamina -> can run for a longer time. She is also more offensive-oriented if she has the life to physically stand in the way to keep monsters from leaving a hot Blaze patch.
Sounds good to me! I knew there would be funky builds that don't quite adhere to the "offensive stat" caveat, and am open to hear about them if players so wish.

Maybe I'm missing something? But, seems to me the A1 denial of skills/stats would be much easier than items?
It probably is, at least for most builds. I was originally going to only include this option but figured I'd give others the option to take another route if they wish. Base vit on a sorc/necro is by no means impossible, but you'll have to be careful, that's for sure. Watch out for Pitspawn!

--

Glad to see there is some interest! I wasn't anticipating so much interest so quickly, so I'll likely get the official tournament thread up early next week. If you want to start early I have no problems with that, the only tricky part is if there is a big rule change you may unintentionally disqualify yourself (I don't see that happening, though). It's my thought that if you're motivated to play, then play! Just keep your updates for the official thread. :)
 

NamelessPenguin

Diabloii.Net Member
Just because it's not your main skill, there is nothing stopping a Barb from purchasing a Bone Shield of Deflection and using Concentrate in the Duriel fight. Most of Duriel's damage in the current version comes from Jabbing with Holy Freeze hits. If you get 35% cold resist on gear and drink a bunch af thawing potions, he can't do much fast damage to you, especially if you keep him Battle Cry-ed as well.
Good advice. Like I said, I know nothing about Barbs, I just remember my duel with Duriel being very unfair.
 
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