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poll and comparrison in faith

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by richo, Apr 14, 2005.

?

Do you prefer full clears or chest runs?

  1. Full Clears FTW!

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  2. Golden Chests = Gib Itamz!

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  3. Pitz/Tunlz R 4 n00bz! M3ph runz = 1337.

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  1. richo

    richo IncGamers Member

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    poll and comparrison in faith

    well i had some things going on in duels and MANY flames about my faith so let see what pple prefer here:)

    i wanna see who agrees with me:)

    as many pple say my bow sux due low dmg (and if i duelled them they wonder why they lose cause they say they have better gear)

    VOTE and tell me details:)

    rgzzz
    RICHO
     
  2. Leohappy

    Leohappy IncGamers Member

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    I vote for GMB. To me, the math is simple - gmb has better base damage, so the damage is better multiplied by offweapon %ed and dex.

    The negative side is that gmb requires more ias for 7fpa, so the equipment options are somewhat limited. Considering how PvP bowzons are all offense (esp.pure bowzons, not hybrid bow/storm javas) it is imperative that you keep your enemy busy with guided arrows/multishots, and that they do heavy damage on impact to kill them fast.
     
  3. Decebal

    Decebal IncGamers Member

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    DAMAGE IS KING!!!

    End of story....

    /Dec
     
  4. richo

    richo IncGamers Member

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    well i not duelled many chars atm with this ama as she is a bit new :p

    but this is how i did on fair dueling in pubby (yes that still exist):

    ama faith gear (1 of the many):
    160/60 8x life multicolor archon
    14x/45 39 life multicolr bone visage
    faith gmb (not remember exact stats)
    war travelers
    nice knockback gloves (knockback, +5 dex, 20 ias, 19 light resist)
    nosferatu
    2* raven frost 23x/20
    cats amu
    7.5k guided arrow

    my gear:
    faith MB 13/2/3/345
    forti archon 1.5/26
    verdungo 15/34
    gore riders (200 ed)
    2* ravenfrost 234/20, 244/20
    highlords
    shako 15ias/8min
    gloves (+2 bow skills, +20 ias, +14 dex)
    i got 3.8k dmg with guided
    (mass life ama is my build 2.5k life with bo)

    5-2 for me at duel (what ended quite nice)

    i dueled several baba and ele drood (obvious-.-)
    well i stay at my faith mb with 7 fps and 2.5k life with bo

    rgzzz
    RICHO
     
  5. orgydream

    orgydream IncGamers Member

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    How do u get 7.5k w/ faith?? I can't get that w/ wf!!
     
  6. AlexWan

    AlexWan IncGamers Member

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    prob the lvl 15 fanat aura
     
  7. itsPizzarific

    itsPizzarific Banned

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    gmb. its a lot easier to get speed frm your gear than damage.
     
  8. Lordjim

    Lordjim IncGamers Member

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    Richo,,

    I agree with you I don't understand the glass canon mentality of the GMB faith with all the limited gear!

    I am excited because I just made my Matrical faith and got 13/2/3/340 so very close to yours and am looking forward to dueling with her!!

    I was going to go this way with my build 4 now based on gear i have:
    MB Faith above
    Gaze 19% :(
    Shaft stop
    KB gloves still trying to craft some better ones with +2 passive and resistance
    belt Thunder gods
    ring ravinfrost
    ring dwarf star
    amulet highlords
    boots war travelers but i want cow king boots here, maybe gore riders
    passive resistance and life charms
    still need a anni small charm to finish her, all mine are off ladder!! :(

    I really want to know how many base points you have in vitality please??

    I was going to go to 100 then rest in dex with none in strength if i can!!

    Nice thread i was asking myself this question just 3 days ago!!!! :clap:

    Jim
     
  9. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    I also agree with using Matriarchal bows. They are far superior with the flexibility in gear they provide. I could type up a nice long explanation, but I've done that a few times already in previous threads.

    Here's my setup (when ladder ends -.-), which you cannot do with a Faith GMB and still achieve 7 fpa.

    15/2/3 Faith Matriarchal Bow
    Titans/Stormshield switch
    39/15IAS/Ber/30res/21% DR CoA
    Fortitude Archon
    Verdungos
    20IAS/KB Gloves
    War Travelers or Shadow Dancer's for FHR and Dex
    Highlords or Cat's Eye
    Ravenfrost/BK Ring

    I'll have positive resists in hell and 36%DR in Bow switch (something you will not see on a 7fpa GMB setup). I will have 7 frame FHR and can reach 5 frames with little difficulty when needed.
     
  10. richo

    richo IncGamers Member

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    well as i said before the gear i use is FAR cheaper the a gmb use wich tries to get 7 fps :rolleyes: , and my dmg not sux that hard it is 4k with guided arrow, and 3k with Multi. My ama is pure bowazone so she has many dodge, avod and evade (all around 6x), and i am spending a few points in penetrate for AR at my multi (that is useful against pple with block and high def)

    but here is my exact build:
    strenght: ** (for perfect strenght bug on full gear)
    dexerity: 129 (minimum needed for my faith mb)
    vitality: 335 (all is spended here this is with bonus)
    energy: BASE!!!!

    life = 1584 (without BO) (2.5k with bo)

    important skills:
    MAX Guided
    MAX Multi
    lvl 9 dodge
    lvl 9 avoid
    lvl 9 evade
    lvl 10 criticail
    lvl 10 penetrate
    (all these skills are without bonus, +5 skills i have)


    aznbboi16: dude you gave me a good idead for my helm as i lack resist and dmg reduce, i think i get me a nice coa to:)

    Lordjim: a good amazone forum spammer says:
    speed > dmg
    life > dmg

    those 2 things i always say, and more agree with that as pvp = live as long as possible so you can kill youre enemy, if you lack some dmg so be it as my dmg is good enough, and that dude i fought was near perfect gear and many dmg but still i win so it is not gear that matters but being skilled in duel :lol:


    aznbboi16: comment on youre gear:
    boots: use gore riders good frw and nice mods
    amulet: use highlord i use and it is good
    rings: are alright if you do little pvm with it

    and as i see you are went hybrid with spear

    Lordjim: comments on youre gear:
    belt: nosferatu or verdungo are good option
    boots: take non upped gores
    gloves: i use rares atm as you already seen wich i have some KB with 20 ias on europe realm
    armor: i prefer forti but shaft good aswel (for life and dmg reduce)
    helm: gaze = for pvm i use shako with 15 ias for pvp gonna use a coa:)

    youre build is more pvm as pvp well for pvm i got a nice frost-ama wich i am testing and posting perhaps here soon if she works well (a friend and I are testing her with the new RW)

    and ppl GG vote in the polls!!!!!

    rgzzz
    RICHO
     
  11. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    Seems to be opinions here - no facts to back anything up?
     
  12. richo

    richo IncGamers Member

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    broll ever post some of this ridicilous things in one of my thread and i will go complain at xora or frygia as youre attitude is just of anoying, and again if you like you go insult me send me a pm, and if you not got anything useful to say plz not post anything at all as youre ruining my threads and other pple their threads as i just give them a little help :mad:

    and if you liked some prove i can post MANY!:

    ias for fps:
    Bow ias for fps

    Bow types WSM:
    bow types with wsm

    for a faith gmb +15 fana aura = 9x ias needed for a standard 7 fps
    a Grand Mathron bow = 10 wsm bow
    for a faith MB +15 fana aura = 4x ias needed for a standaard 7 fps
    a Matriachal bow = -10 wsm bow

    and if youre not so good a -10 wsm bow is less ias needed for 7 fps

    and if you look at thise for a 7 fps with a faith gmb +15 fana aura:
    is prefebly needed
    15x+/60 +xx life helm
    nosferatu
    rare or crafted gloves with +20 ias and other good mods
    cast eye or highlords

    and if you want 7 fps with a faith mb +15 fana aura:
    ama circlet (or other helm) with 3x+/15 jewel
    rare or crafted gloves with +20 ias and other good mods
    highlords

    and so you can have better dmg and more life but you have less dmg, but the gear with a faith mb is FAR more cheaper then a good gear (with 7 fps gmb)

    i hope this cleared up you broll as i can put the faqs but as you sayd some time ago most pple who post here know this already :rolleyes:

    so if you post here make sure it is a good post-.-

    rgzzz
    RICHO
     
  13. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    Sorry, you just rambled incoherently then repeated the ias break points and a couple of setups.
    Do you have any damage output analyses or are you just going to show your ignorance more and assume i am stupid?
    Cost isn't much of a factor imo when you are already talking in terms of a number of hrs.
    Also, in terms of cost, a factor that favours the matri is the addition of max damage charms which add larger relative amount of damage.
    However, as that costs then thats not cheap so you just go round in circles.
    I am not saying one is better than the other with any certainty but i am just not so stupid as to post my opinion as fact.
     
  14. richo

    richo IncGamers Member

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    well for some reason i cant find a thing about faqs in my quote nor titel

    i asked ppl what they preffer, and some detials about how they build their ama, and i did post some things about my own experience in the pub duels, and perhaps i am wrong but are max/AR/llife on each amazone wich uses GA/multi as main attack, and i am talking pure about gear you wear i didnt even post anything about my own char only about the gear you wear, and idd i aint posting anything about dmg as everyone knows that GMB has a better base dmg as a MB, but perhaps you wanna test youre ama against mine perhaps we see then what pple prefer....

    and i am sounding like ignorance, well as far i know i dont and idd i assume youre stupid :rolleyes:

    as youre realy asking for such post of mine, and you may calculate what is more expensive and what is better as i duelled such expensive char 2 times and both times we had a nice duel, but as i still prefer:

    life > dmg
    speed > dmg

    and as far i know i am not only one who thinks like that perhaps not on my ama but she survives long enough in duels to win from most chars, and these are opions of mine and things i have experienced in the pub duels, so if you like to post anything against me DONT!!! i not appreciate anymore posts of things i already know..

    rgzzz
    RICHO

    edit: more comments who are uselus pm me
     
  15. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Let's end it now, or I will close the thread and ban you both for 5 days as a cooling off period.
     
  16. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    Well the post was not just addressed to yourself, people are stating 'facts' with no backing, you were just one of them.

    Dont assume i am ignorant, you know what they say about the word assume and if you dont i suggest you learn.

    Anyway, heres something like I was asking for but you didn't supply and just gave more opinion.

    Matri, low ias needed but low damage.
    Favours a low dex high+max damage charm build. Very flexible in gear to reach 7fpa.
    GMB, higher ias needed but higher damage. More accomadating of a dex build to to the edmodifier and higher base damage. More gear changes needed for different chars.

    OK so a small example.

    matri vs physical,
    shako ed.ias
    forti
    verdungo
    highlord
    rings of choice - virtually irrelevant
    boots of choice - virtually irrelevant (Wts better on matri than on gmb but gores more likely choice)
    gloves - 20ias +2 passives other mods virtually irrelevant
    = 55ias = 7 frame
    with poor ias on jav switch

    GMB vs physical
    shako ed.ias
    ed.ias life armor
    verdungo
    highlord
    rings of choice - virtually irrelevant
    boots of choice - virtually irrelevant
    gloves - 20ias +2 passives other mods virtually irrelevant
    = 115ias = 7 frame
    also with good ias on jav switch

    Assuming conditions which favour matri, low dex ands high+max charms.
    150dex and 117 max.
    we get:
    matri; damage(min,max) = (86,(202+117))*(100+140(GA)+300(fort)+40(jewel in shako)+288(fana%)+150(dex))=(875,3247)=2061 average
    GMB; damage(min,max) = (60,(309+117))*(100++140+160+40+288+150)=(526,3740)=2133 average
    so GMB beats matri in terms of damage vs physical chars.
    This was also with the low dex, high-max favouring setup. If anyones interested just change the 117 to zero and increase dex to widen the gap in damage quite a lot.
    Ofc this is just with the first 2 setups which came to mind - if anyone has different ones then lets hear them.

    vs non-physical then gmb users can lose the ed.ias armor and use something like
    ed.ias helm
    forti
    30ias combo of gloves+belt of choice
    highlord
    ring+boots .. whatever
    = 95ias = 7frame (using 14/15 fana ofc) with way higher damage but loss of 2 passives and some stats probably (small sacrifice imo)
    damage(min,max) = (60,(309+117)*(100+140+300+120+288+150)=(658,4677)=2668av.
    low ias on jav switch but not used so much vs nonphys anyway.
    Fairly inflexible but huge gains in damage obtained.

    Anyway, I hear you cry 'but what about the res/life/xxx lost?!!?!'.
    As there is such a huge damage increase, res etc can be easily added by charms.
    To equal the average damage of the first matri setup you can use a full 110max in charms less = almost a full inventory to get your needs.
    As always there are price considerations but thats always the case.
     
  17. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    I don't think anyone was stating their opinions as "facts" in this thread.

    Anyways, one thing you can't make up with charms is Damage Reduce. With GMB it's hard to get damage reduce without some sacrifices. You could use a Shaftstop, or even ED/IAS Shaft and Verdungos, but then you lose out on a good amount of ED and get a r/w penalty. With the loss in ED, it kind of defeats the purpose of using a high damage bow.

    With Matri Bow, you can have a good all around setup with good %DR, FHR and decent resists. This is more of a safety setup, which I prefer over your pure dexazon. I can survive a few hits and have a great deal of flexibility.
    One of the biggest disadvantages mentioned is the low IAS in Jav switch. But I rarely Jab people, and a 10 frame throw is ok with me.

    If you're good at avoiding hits, play in environments where people are bad at aiming, or townrun ( :eek: ), then by all means get a GMB for damage.

    I don't really care about crunching damage numbers and comparing like that. I'd rather find a balanced build with good damage and good survivability and the Matri bow provides the most flexibility to do this with.

    My amazon will have damage a bit higher than what ToThePoint has calculated for the Matri bow [(875,3247)=2061 average], 1.6-1.7k life w/o BO, 36%DR, positive resists and 40FHR in bow switch.

    Maybe someone could give us the stats on their GMB zon?
     
  18. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    erm the first setup has 25%dr, you can add a ber to the shako for 33% which is close enough to 36 that you get with a small loss in damage but still maintain 7fpa.
    However, vs the coa setup there would be no loss in damage due to the str needed to equip coa which could be put into dex instead.
    However, using the very same bow you can get way more damage vs non physical characters.
    Dunno if you missed that point but you seemed to pick the dr issue even though 2 main setups were addressed.

    This comment sounds like 'if you are a no skill pubby dueller facing noobs use gmb' however if any ama has: mass dr, damage+ias aura, chance to cast def etc then to me it smacks of pubby duelling.
    The main place i have an interest in with regards duelling on my realm (same as richo infact) limits dr and both forti and faith will be banned as soon as come to nl along with grief (and probably others)
    Its about balance not overpowering runewords that 'own all'.

    You say you will have a bit higher damage, must be due to higher dex as you will have high base str. I only did 150dex to give the advantage to matri bows (not that it beat gmb still)
    A gmb user will have similar vs physical and higher vs nonphysical.
    You may not like number crunching but its the only real way to compare as the game itself is just one big number cruncher.
     
  19. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    I guess I didn't look at your GMB setup carefully, because I assumed fortitude to be in the build. In which case, the damage is only a bit higher than the average damage of a Mat bow (from your calculations) and you lose out on other benefits of fortitude such as defense, resists and a few other minor things.

    The high damage GMB setup however lacks any DR or FHR, and that is probably what I was looking at when I posted. So, not only are you sacrificing some stats and 2 passives, you are losing DR and FHR, which are not minor imo. If you get hit in this setup, you are probably dead, or on your way to being dead soon.

    CoA may require a bit more str than your average bowazon (174 vs 156 for stormshield, 18%ED or in my case, 54 life), but there are quite a few benefits in using it, such as the DR, extra socket, FHR and resists. I don't use a dexazon, so I don't feel a GMB would be suitable. I use a dex for block, rest in vit build. So CoA isn't sacrificing any %ED for me, just some life.

    The comment on playstyle wasn't really about pubs. It's more about your own skill compared to where you play. If you are just plain good at evading attacks and know when to switch to your shield, go with a GMB. If you only pub and are good at avoiding people there, go GMB, etc. I also private duel, but for me faith/fortitude will probably be allowed. I prefer the low dex, high life, high DR setup because people are very skilled where I duel and it will be damn hard to avoid tele-ww's.

    Also, I don't feel such massive damage is necessary for dueling most non-physical characters like sorceresses, since they generally don't have extremely high life. Enough to put them into hit recovery is good enough for me, and the good min damage on a mat bow is reliable for doing that.

    I would want high damage vs characters like Barbarians or wind druids, and the GMB setup for this kind of duel doesn't do much more damage than a mat bow.
     
  20. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    The high damage setup is SUPPOSED to lack dr - its vs nonphysical chars who wont be doing physical damage to you so zero is as good as 50.
    The fhr/res which you lack can be replaced in the 37 spaces in your inventory which is the 'cushion' for obtaining the same damage as matri.
    You are right though there will be some res/def lost in the physical gmb setup but def is almost irrelevant on ama as it will never get very high and anyone can hit amas. Res isn't so important vs physical but ofc some cases it will be.
    Duelling sorc and necro, the higher the damage the better as you need to do enough to overcome ES/bonearmor before you do significant damage to them. If you dont then they either regen the mana or recast the armor.
    Matri is the 'one stop GA shop' but with the gmb you can have as good as vs physical and superior vs non.
     

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