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Poison Javazon Build - Comments?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Super5, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Poison Javazon Build - Comments?

    So... I was looking through this forum and I can't find anything about a pure poison (i.e., main attack is plague jav, no pumping of lit skills) amazon. What gives anyway? This seems like a really cool and viable build, unless I'm missing something.

    So skill points would go something like:
    Max Valkyrie
    Max Decoy
    Max Plague Javelin
    Max Poison Javelin
    1 or more to Pierce
    1 or more to Penetrate
    1 to all prereqs

    This comes to 89 skill points, leaving plenty to put more into dodge, avoid or evade, but those skills shouldn't be necessary. The style of play would be to cast a decoy to attract monsters, hit them with plague jav, then wait for the poison to do its work while your valk keeps them busy. You could also cast lit bolt in the meantime if you're bored, since poison takes so long to do its job, but overall I think this build would work quite well.

    Pros:
    1. Very few monsters are poison immune, and the ones that are, are usually undead (very slow) or stationary (like barricades, cats, etc. in act 5)
    2. Massive damage with or without +poison skill damage and -enemy poison resists equipment.
    3. Massive tanks in the form of decoy and valk, so safety is guaranteed.

    Cons:
    1. Killing will be slow (the "spectator effect", as one necro guide put it).
    2. Not a real viable way to deal with poison immunes except to use lit bolt (see note about gear)
    3. AR might be a problem unless you pump dex.
    4. HUGE casting delay on plague javelin - you're screwed if you miss.

    Some of the cons are solvable by various methods. If you're "spectating" a lot, try mixing it up with lit bolt just for something to do. Poison immunes can be killed by using thunderstroke, which is ideal for this build due to the lit damage it provides. Lit Bolt + Thunderstroke = dead poison immunes in a reasonable amount of time. Or you could let your valk kill them :lol: The AR problem could be solved with higher dex and/or more points to penetrate. As for the casting delay, you'd just have to run unless your valk is tanking the monsters alright and you can afford to wait for the delay to wear off.

    I do have a few questions that would influence this build though. For one, how do equipment and items with poison damage interact with plague javelin? This is a must to know. Also I'm wondering if the jav skills are considered "poison skills" by Blizz's definition so that trang's set or bramble would work with them. For stats, probably just enough str and dex to use thunderstroke, then possibly more dex if you want good AR and blocking. Blocking should be irrelevant since you won't come that close to monsters, but it never hurts to be safe. AR is a must and you definitely need it so you don't waste your one javelin cast. This build needs no energy for a couple reasons: long casting delay on your main skill, and the extremely long effect of poison (10+ seconds).

    Am I totally off-track here? Comments are welcome.
     
  2. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Well, since no one will comment about this build, I guess I'll just have to try it out myself... wish me luck.
     
  3. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    trangs gloves and bramble will work with this build but as you have no way except lit bolt and merc to handle POI your looking at a very slow killer as many things are highly resistant to poison in hell.

    that can on the other hand be solved with items that lower resists.

    try it out and see how it fares.

    and check the LF/PJ build for some info about plauge javelin
     
  4. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Yeah I checked the LF/PJ guide, but not enough emphasis on poison, IMO. I just wanted a javazon that could kill pretty much anything in the game with one type of attack. Since poison is the least common immunity, I figured that would be the best... but it looks like I'll have to use -enemy poison resist items if everything in hell is highly resistant to poison.

    I'm at lvl 20 right now (act 3 HCL), I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  5. [FLS]prozerran

    [FLS]prozerran IncGamers Member

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    I've built one a couple of months back, and my opinion is that PJ is useless except to stopping monster regeneration. The damage on the LCD looks nice, but it's damage over almost a minute, and poison damage doesn't stack either. And although most monsters are not poison immune, many are quite resistant. Suffice to say, it takes me like a minute to kill a small group of LI (I maxed LF, Poison Jav and Plag Jav). It sucks.

    I want really want to use poison, I'd max plag jav (massive area and longer duration for more skill points) just to stop monster regenation and focus on other means to actually kill the monsters.
     
  6. GITO86

    GITO86 IncGamers Member

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    if it took u 1 minute to kill a pack of LI, you probably messed up your build somewhere. my javazon has the same maxed skills you had, and she can take pretty much anything. 1.7k lightning fury, 111k psn javelin, 96k plague javelin. that doesnt seem useless to me. plague kills LI monsters in hell for me in like 2-3 secs.
     
  7. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    How many +skills you have to plague? I'd be interested because I'm quite sure that damage ramps up a lot past lvl 10, and then again past lvl 20. I have lvl 28 plague currently, and it does something like 16k over 14 seconds (a little over 1k/sec). I'm trying to decide whether to go all out for skills, or maybe use some -enemy poison resist/+poison skill damage equipment like trangs or bramble. I won't be able to make bramble, since I'm so poor, but trangs is looking quite attractive. What would be better, +3 to your skills or the +25% damage on gloves? I'm curious what everyone thinks.

    Also, an update on the experiment: currently in nm act 3 and haven't really had any problems yet. Andy was a real pain, but other than that I haven't noticed anything really bad about this build. One thing I will say though, is that undead and various monsters with high poison resistance are almost impossible to kill with this build. In big games, even in nm, you could go and eat a meal, come back and poison would still be on the monster but they wouldn't be dead yet. That's why I'm thinking -enemy poison resist might be the only way to go here. However, in small games, all monsters go down in a few seconds, even uniques (might take 2 throws but they can be killed very rapidly).

    I have all the poison synergies maxed, now I'm going for valk and (possibly) decoy. Wish me luck...
     
  8. WvX_leader

    WvX_leader Banned

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    Is it just me or does anyone notice the HUGE one and a half minute timer on plague jav at high lvls... Do the math of what itll do per second and its not too much.
     
  9. GITO86

    GITO86 IncGamers Member

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    1 and a half minute timer? what are u talking about? the timer remains constant regardless of lvl. and why would you need plague javelins in rapid succession? all it would do is crash your computer with all those clouds. once a plague jav hits a monster, a huge cloud spreads out from it hitting everything in the area.

    super, i have lvl 40 javelin skills and 79% added damage to poison skills.
    as for % vs skill, it all depends on the lvl of your skills. like lvl 1 plague would benefit much more from another skill than % dmg to skill. but like for me at lvl 40, 1% added damage is 1000 dmg, so i benefit more from % dmg.

    also youre probably screwed on poison immunes, you should probably have gotten a lightning skill instead of wasting points on decoy and valkyrie (which imo are the biggest waste of skillpoints in the game).
     
  10. Lyrs

    Lyrs IncGamers Member

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    don't max decoy. 1 is enough. use the other 19 to max lightning fury, and put perhaps 1 point into jab for those times when you just need to grab some meat.
     
  11. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    dude, with synergies the valk is the best tank in the game! read my thread "the passive zon" for the info on my lev 60 zon that only uses passive skills My valk just destroyed Hell andy and can take smaller (10-12) packs of hell cows.
     
  12. GITO86

    GITO86 IncGamers Member

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    tanks in general are stupid. you sacrifice power for something that isnt necessary. ok lets say u dont have a tank of some sort, what happens if a giant pack of monsters comes rushing towards you? i know this is a hard concept, but YOU CAN MOVE! what do you think would kill 10-12 cows faster? a valk sitting there chipping away at them, or a javazon that is running and throwing lightning furies? ya im pretty sure 2-3 maxed lightning furies would kill 12 cows easy. the only thing tanks do is stop their users from getting skill. god forbid you have to actually try
     
  13. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for all the replies people. I'm just trying this build out, so don't get all excited about it, I'm still not sure if it's viable. I guess I'll go with %added damage to poison skills on gloves, since it adds so much at high levels. I'm not sure if I should max lit fury or decoy, so I'll leave that decision until last. The reason I picked decoy is because it synergizes valk and it can hold monsters in place really well for your plague jav.

    BTW, wvx... it's poison javelin that has the huge timer (+2 second duration/level), not plague jav. Plague gets about 0.4 seconds duration per level. So granted, you can do more total damage with poison jav, but the duration is insane. Add to that monster resists, which cuts the duration in half at least, and it's pretty bad. I kill everything alright (in nm) but I'm having serious mana problems. Need to get some items with +mana since plague jav is so expensive, and so is lit fury. Still testing away...
     
  14. WvX_leader

    WvX_leader Banned

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    my bad super 5... i looked at this on the skill calaculator though and i didnt think it was too effective... Poisin nova necro is more effective because of its only 2 second timer
     
  15. [FLS]prozerran

    [FLS]prozerran IncGamers Member

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    +skills for PJ isn't particularly helpful because it only lengthen the poison duration. The damage per second isn't raised much. And poison damage doesn't stack, or else PJ is very viable.
     
  16. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Well, you will always be the slowest killer in a party with sorcs and such, but as far as fun and safety goes, I quite like my Plaque-Lady. The slow killing speed actually helps to progress safely.

    My gear (this is HC ladder) was mostly found and bought as she was my very first character on the new ladder - so no trades etc available. recently I got a really low ED Titans for free.

    Skills:

    Maxed Pois Jav (26)
    Maxed Plaque Jav (26)
    LF (14 now, max eventually)
    Valk 15 (cast with +6 skills)
    Rest evenly distributed on DAE and Pierce (like 4-8 pts everywhere)

    Lv 77 act 5 hell (in all fairness, I should say, that she made it alone to act 2 hell, then I hitched a ride along with a party of friends. They were the aforementioned sorc and an IK barb, who did most of the killing after all)

    I use an act 3 icemerc with fast cast who can actally kill stuff. Given a nice weapon for an act 2 merc, I would probably use a HF merc
     
  17. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Actually, I'm using a act3 cold merc right now, and I'm pretty satisfied with him... he keeps all the monsters frozen in place while poison goes to work on them. I'm wondering if he is the best or maybe Holy Freeze? The plus to holy freeze is that it will even affect cold immunes, but he does tend to rush into the fray and get himself killed or draw more monsters to me. I'll have to experiment with both I guess.
     
  18. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Hm... when I was partying with a friend, he called my act 3 icemerc a weak merc and asked why I dont use an act 2 merc.

    Well, act 2 mercs can be great, with ll and all. Toss a Shaft, Tals Mask and maybe a Reapers Toll or Tomb Reaver etc at them and they just rock..but if you are "poor" I find A3 icemercs very satisfying..for the same reasons as you said. They freeze stuff solid, can kill in hell..and with FCR, they just rock. And when I have a high lv Valk, (red pike = ll) I don't need another tank.
     
  19. Super5

    Super5 IncGamers Member

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    Ok, I'm starting to have my doubts about this build. For one thing, it is true that not many monsters are poison immune. However, poison resistances are very high on many and the ones that are immune are very annoying. 2 of Baal's minion packs are naturally immune in nm alone, which makes baal running with this build a real pain. To deal with the resistances of monsters, it's pretty much necessary to get a wand (or helm) with charges of lower resistance. The headgear would be preferable, since you wouldn't have to weapon switch constantly, but even switching a lot would be viable. The other option is a trick that is accomplished by switching to death's web after you poison your enemies. Supposedly this affects enemies immediately and you start doing a lot more damage due to the -enemy poison resist. I haven't tested this, though, because death's web is quite expensive. The best bet is lower resist charges.

    I will make a comment about valk, though.... she is one mean tank. With decoy and valk both maxed, I have a feeling she will be unstoppable. She may not kill much in hell, but she'll sure keep monsters busy for however long it takes the poison to do its job. I'll let you know how the build fares as I enter hell difficulty.
     
  20. royalesse

    royalesse IncGamers Member

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    Just a question has anyone tried a Buriza or HoJ (-10 Weapon Speed Bow) on weapon switch and used Multishot instead of LF? Multishot just seems a lot more efficient skill point wise rather than LF & Pierce. Also with timered spells you can spam arrows waiting for the counter to go down. Finally, with a bunch of +skills you can only do a minor investment in multi-shot leaving more points for your passive tree.

    Just a thought, haven't tested it myself.
     

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