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Poison Jav Zon - Some Questions

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by PFS, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. PFS

    PFS Diabloii.Net Member

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    Poison Jav Zon - Some Questions

    From the paladin forum I saw THIS

    My questions:

    1. Is it true that Venom works like this with poison javs??
    2. With Plague and Poison Javs do monsters get stacked poison damage? I.e. Do they get reinfected if they walk into a second cloud while still poisoned from the first? Or if you hit them with a second Jav?
     
  2. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    reinfecting doesn't work. Or not in a stacking way. If you reinfect a monster with poison damage, it will reset the time and the poison damage per second, so no double damage. So throwing two at one monster will have but little effect.

    Have a read at battle.net. If they are right, yes if, then your qoute is wrong, though it wouldn't be the first time someone is mistaking.

    http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/assassin-shadow.shtml#venom

    P.S. perhaps treachery is better if you want to make that build.
    P.P.S. on the other hand, I'm starting to think that SSoG knows a lot about this game. Why are you interested, you can kill him in less the 104 second and be much faster in the running to baal when you use a lightning amazon.
     
  3. PFS

    PFS Diabloii.Net Member

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    I was thinking just as a fun build. Was also wondering if the clouds infect monsters that are not struck by the Javs - Like with Plague Javalon.

    Looked like an interesting build...

    Think I'm gonna ask this in the Stats forum - as now have some expansions that apply to other chars...
     
  4. SSoG

    SSoG Diabloii.Net Member

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    1. Yes. I've run actual physical tests and documented the results. Venom's bitrate is absolutely, positively stacking additively with Poison Javelin's (or Plague Javelin's, for that matter), and the poison is still running for PJ's full duration. It does not work with the clouds- only on actual physical hits, nothing else.
    2. No, Poison never stacks. What happens is that the higher bit-rate poison always takes precedence. If you hit a monster with a 50 d/s poison, and then again with a 20 d/s poison, nothing will happen (except the monster will take the first frame of damage from the 20 d/s poison, which is essentially negligable). If you hit a monster with a 20 d/s poison, and then again with a 50 d/s poison, then the 50 d/s poison will overwrite the 20 d/s poison. If you hit a monster with a 50 d/s poison, and then again with the 50 d/s poison, it will just restart the timer on the 50 d/s poison, but it won't increase the damage output again (except that, again, you'll be applying the first frame worth of poison damage, which for this purpose is essentially negligable).

    Battle.net is wrong here (what else is new). Well, actually, what they say is true, but it's not the WHOLE truth. Battle.net says "Consequently, all other items will only inflict poison damage for 0.4 seconds", which is 100% correct... but the key word is ITEMS. Venom will not touch the poison duration of poison SKILLS, only ITEMS. As a result, you can stack Venom with Poison Javelin, Plague Javelin, or Poison Dagger, and the bitrates will stack over the entire skill duration (or maybe the skill duration plus .4 seconds, I've never really tested for sure).

    Also, you're correct. If you want to make a "build" out of Poison Javelin (which I *DO NOT* recommend), then treachery is a more practical choice. And you're correct that pretty much any other build can kill Baal faster than in 104 seconds- a maximum damage Poison Javazon is nothing more than a novelty build, a theoretical maximum "what if" taken to its most extreme conclusion.

    Also, before everyone gets all excited about Venom stacking with PoisonJavelin and PDagger... it's still pathetically weak. A slvl 40 PDagger + Venom from Treachery will deal about 2160 damage per second. A slvl 40 Poison Nova will deal 2933.5 damage per second. Likewise, Plague Javelin will leave Poison Javelin's damage per second (which should be your primary concern on any poison build) in the dust, whether you add Venom or not.

    Venom + Long Duration Poison lets you get theoretically imposing total damage figures, but the damage-per-second is truly pathetic, given the time and gear you're investing.



     
  5. PFS

    PFS Diabloii.Net Member

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    SSoG

    Thanks for the reply - here and in the Stats Forum.

    I am still tempted to make one as a novelty build though...

    Maybe as a Light/Poison hybrid or something....
     
  6. SSoG

    SSoG Diabloii.Net Member

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    Forget about Poison Javelin or Venom and focus entirely on Plague Javelin. It's a very Hell-viable skill, easily capable of dealing 5,000+ damage per second to entire mobs (100,000 damage per hit). Trust me- you would lose your mind trying to make a living with Poison Javelin, no matter HOW GOOD your gear was.

    Lightning/Poison hybrids are lots of fun, though. I'd definitely recommend them.



     
  7. levitikus

    levitikus Diabloii.Net Member

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    How would Poisen SC's effect the dmg of the poisen/plague javelin? Does it add enough damage to make it more deadly or is the skills poisen dmg high enough already?.. same question with facets.
     
  8. SSoG

    SSoG Diabloii.Net Member

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    Poison Small Charms only come into play when the Javelin actually physically lands a hit (just like with Venom). Most poison Javazons have a brutally poor chance to hit and rely entirely on the fact that the poison cloud itself is autohit, so in that case, Poison Small Charms would be entirely useless. Damage-wise, pestilent small charms add almost 30 damage per second, so getting 20 of them together (which is no mean feat) means 600 damage per second. Of course, a high-level Plague Javelin can easily deal 4,000 damage per second on its own, so even if you DO land a hit, those poison SCs will really just provide a negligible damage boost (and be very expensive, in the mean time). They're just not worth it.

    Poison facets, on the other hand, can definitely be worth it. If Plague javelin averages 4,000 damage per second and you add a perfect poison facet, that's the same as adding 200 damage per second to EVERYONE IN THE CLOUD (rather than just anyone who the javelin actually physically hits). The -% poison resistance can wind up boosting damage even more than that, when all is said and done. +% Poison Skill Damage and -% Enemy Resists are two of the three most important mods for a poison javazon. The *MOST* important mod, though, is +skills. Plague Javelin's damage really accellerates with a lot of +skills, ramping up to absurd levels. You should be running at least +20 skills on your Plaguie, if at all possible.



     
  9. levitikus

    levitikus Diabloii.Net Member

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    nice thanks!
     
  10. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze Diabloii.Net Member

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    How about those multiple hit sounds from poison javalins that I am hearing (similar to the ones from the bugged vipers). How much damage are they doing, if any.
     
  11. SSoG

    SSoG Diabloii.Net Member

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    Not really sure what you're talking about. Is this PvM or PvP? If it's PvP, I really can't help you at all.



     
  12. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze Diabloii.Net Member

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    PvM. I throwed poison javalins on random monsters. Once in a while, I hear these hit noises when the monster walks through the cloud, and they started dying real fast (they are norm monsters though, and my zon was like lvl 15). The sound and the way they die sounds awfully like the bugged vipers.
     
  13. SSoG

    SSoG Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, what makes that noise with the bugged vipers is as follows: Bugged Viper Poison has a physical componant. 99% of damage types that have a physical componant are blockable (very few exceptions, such as Diablo's LHoD). Since the Vipers aren't even SUPPOSED to be dealing physical damage with their poison, Blizzard never went through and turned off blocking... so that snap-crackle-pop sound you hear when you get hit by Viper Poison is just your character trying to block 10+ times per second. At least, that's what I've been told.

    Anyway, Amazon Plague Javelin has no physical componant (except for the actual javelin, of course), so that couldn't explain why you're hearing noises from the monsters when they die. I'm sorry, but I really don't know what's going on for you. :undecided:



     

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