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Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Fabian, May 19, 2008.

  1. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    I've never played HC before. I'm getting a bit tired of the endless search for items that is SC, so I want to mix things up and try to make a guardian. There are a few problems with this; I'm not a particularly good player, I'm certainly not a patient player, etc, but I'm hoping to overcome these things as I go along.

    I want to do single pass, full clears on P8. Well, maybe not P8 for Hell. I'm going untwinked, I'm going to use Atma as an extended stash. I'll be using RWM (and RRM).

    I'm not looking to start with the absolutely toughest build you can think of. Again, I pretty much suck at Diablo. Any sort of cookie cutter build is ok really, to be honest I don't think I'll succeed no matter what build I choose.

    I don't want to play a sorceress. Way too many of the (relatively few) characters I've played have been sorceresses. I've never played druids, never played necromancers and never played amazons. I've played a terrible trapper build in my early battle.net days for assassins, I've played a zealot and tried a hammerdin for a while for paladins, and I've played a thrower barb in the thrower barb tournament in here a while ago for barbarians. That's pretty much it as far as experience goes.

    I'm leaning towards maybe a trapper or some sort of barbarian that works well under these restrictions. I don't mind playing a new character class either, but I'm not really sure where to start there.

    That's where you come in! If you managed to read all this, given all the above, what would you recommend for me? If you say a necromancer I'm going to need extra convincing because I'm not completely sure I'd like them, so try selling it even harder! Nothing is impossible.

    Thanks.

    Oh and also, if you want to volunteer and tips or hints for your build specific for this type of challenge (how to deal with immunes for example), feel more than free to :)
     
  2. Mursilis

    Mursilis IncGamers Member

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    So what you are looking for is a fun build, that can solo Hell untwinkled and does not require a large amount of patience....

    I'm going to suggest a lightning Amazon, even though I realize you haven't played that class before. Her damage is elemental, so does not rely on your equipment and she is overpowered in that regards to boot. Bosses will not cause you any problems due to CS being such an excellent "large" monster killer. You also get the best tank in the game with a valkyrie as well as an excellent scout with the decoy, both which will help greatly with your survivability.

    Only major issue you'll run into is lightning immunes in Hell, of which there are a fair amount. You'll need some sort of backup, mostly your mercenary and valkyrie with you jabbing away. They'll take a while so this is where you need to store up patience for, but very doable.

    As a bonus you don't have to worry about IM so much since Lightning Fury is a ranged skill, and you can always recast your valkyrie next to the Oblivion Knights to keep them occupied.
     
  3. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    20 Blade Sentinel, 20 Venom, 20 Claw Mastery, 20 Shadow Master. =).

    Just kidding. An LS/DS/FB trapsin gets my vote. It covers two elements (and a little physical damage), so immunes are less of a problem. Did I mention it packs quite a punch? Having CoS and MB certainly doesn't hurt either.
     
  4. lionheartthebrave

    lionheartthebrave IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    @Mursilis:stroke your ego and recommend a character like Atropos:wink3:

    Amazon:LF with FA backup for LIs and a valk is a good choice, because the damage is elemental, and three types of damage is great

    Fishymancer: yes it's a cookie cutter, but it's fun to play imho, control your army, curse the enemies, or sit back and amp/CE everything, the choice is yours. A clay golem slows bosses to a crawl, revives boost your army CB Urdars> Ancients

    Assassin: traps are powerful, claws can be shopped easily, fade ftw

    Paladin: Holy Shock/Freeze hybrid: shield gives lots of resall, just find a fastish weapon and zeal away
     
  5. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    I think Zeal would just be too optimistic of me with IM and not having played too many melee characters, but I'm liking all the other suggestions so far. The main reason I was thinking about a Barbarian was because BO makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but other than that I guess he's not too well suited huh.

    I definitely like the idea of having a valk distracting all the monsters, but I guess Shadow Master and revives would fill similar roles for other builds. Hm hm.

    Thanks for the suggestions so far.
     
  6. Merlin The Wizzard

    Merlin The Wizzard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    Yeah, The Amazon is a good choice. javelin style throwing weapon, and a pike for charged strike boss disposal.

    But there are tons of fun builds out there. Barbs are not particularly safe, but can be great fun to play. As far as asassin go, you could also go for aa phoenix striker.
    Also, browse the character builds in the stickes. Also int he character class forums. These often give great avice on what to look for and all. Skills, tactics, equipment choices (often they will list poor man's or untwinked options there as well)

    And dont be afraid to try a sorceress if you have played those a lot! The HC challenge will bring an added layer of excitement, and your familiarity with the class might give you an advantage when you get a bit further in the game. Also, once they develop their skills, they are not item dependant a well, always a bonus in HC.
     
  7. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    The idea here is to let your elemental auras deal damage, not your weapon. Your weapon only serves to deliver the damage.

    In twinked play, a lot of people make pure Holy Freeze or Holy Shock paladins, and pump Sacrifice and Zeal to maximize their physical damage. The rationale here is that you will be dealing two damage types in every attack, and leeching a fair bit as a result of your good physical damage. This requires a good weapon, but does leave you vulnerable to Iron Maiden; many of these characters use a weapon with high elemental damage and low physical damage on switch, like a nice rare wand.

    With you being untwinked, going with two elemental auras gives you flexibility in the gear department. Unlike the twinked example above, you won't have as many free skill points, but this isn't a huge deal, as many twinked players will be pumping Holy Shield. With your less uber gear, HShield will yield much less impressive returns, and can safely be left at ~5 hard points. You also will have to pick which damage type you use in each situation, and thus will be swapping between HF and HShock a fair bit if you make it to Hell, and start encountering immunes regularly. However, up through Nightmare, you can pretty much focus on one aura. I recommend maxing HF (slow monsters == extra HC safety), then HShock, and then the synergies. Salvation is a good synergy to max first; while it doesn't add as much to the damage, it boosts both your auras. You will appreciate this when you run into immunes, and have to switch from one aura to the other (two strong auras are better than one very strong and one very weak). Add in some points in Zeal (enough to hit five swings with any +skills gear, plus any more you need for AR issues) and HShield, and you're good to go. Paladin shields make it very easy to achieve high resists, and you can even make Spirit in one, once you get the runes. This is an easy and cheap runeword to help your skills, resists, and mana issues; stick it in the best +res all paladin shield you can.

    As far as weapons go, you want something fast, and damage doesn't really matter (higher will help a bit in maingame play, while lower is better against IM). Shael runes for speed or Eth runes for -target defense are your friends here, and both are easy enough to come by in untwinked play. You might try shopping/hunting for a +3 Holy Fire scepter in the very early game; coupled with the single hard point you'll have there, this will destroy enemies until mid-late Act I. If you're doing full clears of every area on /p8, you should have two to four points in HF by the time you hit Act II.
    Not so much. While a barb can deal with anything that comes his way if played properly (War Cry to stun things, Berserk for PI or IM, and your main attack coupled with big life for everything else), they tend to be a bit slow unless you have good gear. Also, it's very easy to mess up and die to IM, such as if you're mana drained while trying to use Berserk, and default to a normal attack. Yes, you can be careful and avoid these issues, but for a first HC character, I'd try something safer.

    My personal vote would be a fishymancer. Standing back and letting my army kill everything is a play style that appeals to me, and it's very safe as well. If you have poor reflexes, pick through drops in the middle of battle, talk on the phone while playing, or play while drunk, this is the build for you. There are only a few hard things in the game, and these can all be dealt with if you know how:

    • Normal Duriel: Likely to be your first really tough battle. If you ran exclusively on /p8 and did full clears, your Raise Skeleton will be maxed by this point, and you'll have Clay Golem and Decrepify. Use both to keep Duriel slowed, and the merc and skellies will slowly tear him apart. By the time you face him in Nightmare, you should have zero problems.
    • Normal Diablo: Your second big challenge. Make sure you use Decrepify and CG here, and have at least one point in Summon Resist (maybe a few if you lack +skills). Casting CG in his face whenever he kills it will help dissuade him from using his lightning hose. Urdar-type monsters with their built-in crushing blow help too; grab a few if you can. By the time they're dead, they should have applied CB enough times to make a big dent in Diablo's life. Like Duriel, he's much harder in Normal than later difficulties. If he bone cages you, cast a Town Portal and be ready to jump through it if he turns on the lightning hose.
    • Gloams: Mildly annoying in Normal, but not dangerous unless you've really neglected your lightning resist. One of the few attacks that can penetrate your army and hit you, so keep on your toes if the bolts hurt. Max lightning res pretty much becomes mandatory in later difficulties, but it's really the only one that matters much as long as you can hide behind your army.
    • Javelin Cats: Another piercing ranged attack. A point in Bone Armor might help here; pump the synergies if you feel it's too fragile. Otherwise, just pay attention, sidestep the missiles, and kill them quickly.
    • Physical Immunes: With Amp Damage breaking almost every one, it's not really an issue. For the few unbreakable PIs, Corpse Explosion (being 50% physical and 50% fire damage) usually will finish them off, especially as such monsters are generally Stone Skin bosses or possessed champions, and thus surrounded by their dead kin. If the monster is FI too, try elemental revives, skeleton mages, and/or elemental damage on the merc's weapon.
     
  8. GoHabsGo

    GoHabsGo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    Barbarian are always a good choice for a first HC char since their pretty tuff and can easily get a bunch of life and resists without good gear. But their killing speed becomes horribly slow in Hell so if your not patient, good luck making a guardian with them.

    Summon-Necro are a walk in the park as long are you play safe. The killing speed is decent even in Hell but you have to stay careful.

    Wind Druid would be my pick. They are SO fun. You'll have to beat normal using melee weapon (find a druid helm that gives you werewolf) and then in NM, it's like playing a brand new character since you can finally use you're Wind skills. With Oak Sage, a grizzly bear and a merc, you're VERY safe. Killing speed is great even in hell and immunes are rarely a problem since Hurricanes deals cold damage and Tornado deals physical. You can become VERY powerful with simple items such as Sigon Shield and Spirit Sword (easiest runeword ever). And last thing is, if you're doing good with him and feel like MFing for futur HC chars, he can do any area. Not as fast as a sorc but at least he can go anywhere.
     
  9. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    Thanks a bunch for the suggestions. I decided to go with a trapsin, but 2 or 3 of the other builds sound just as good and I'll be trying them out once my assassin dies :)
     
  10. barren

    barren IncGamers Member

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    I'm cruisin through nightmare with an untwinked hc zerker thanks to fishies guide (it's floating somewhere around here, found it a few pages back). The trick is to max warcry and keep everything stunned. Don't bother with a mastery skill until you're in hell and sure about an end game weapon, just pick up the biggest 2 hander you can and whack everything in a hit or 2.

    With howl and warcry to keep the hordes of hell under control it's a surprisingly safe build that packs a punch.
     
  11. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: Please help me choose my first untwinked single pass guardian build!

    It's linked to in the Stickies, barren.
     

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