Please help, before I loose my mind...

Selune

Diabloii.Net Member
Please help, before I loose my mind...

Questions that I can't seem to find the answer to no matter how many builds and FAQ's I read, and it's driving me mad.

Does Dragon tail convert Physical dmg into fire dmg in the fire explotion that it does?
Since people say the can kill a group with only chargeing up Tiger Strike and then release it with Dragon tail and do over 60k of dmg.

And does using both 2 charges of Phoenix strike and 3 charges of Claws of Thunder add a hidden bonus dmg to lightning dmg? and the same with fire and ice?

Thanks in advance :smiley:

~Selune
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

Questions that I can't seem to find the answer to no matter how many builds and FAQ's I read, and it's driving me mad.

Does Dragon tail convert Physical dmg into fire dmg in the fire explotion that it does?
Not exactly. Dtail is unlike any of the conversion skills, or any skill really, though I guess you could say it's a cousin to Vengeance. Anyway, the kick still does all of its physical damage, which has been increased by the Dtail and Tiger skill bonuses, and so on. But the fire splash damage is calculated on the physical damage inflicted, after resists. Which is why PIs aren't good targets for Dtail, and why Amp/Decrep are so crazy good with it.

So in summary, the release target of a Dtail takes both physical kick damage, and the fire splash on top of that.

Since people say the can kill a group with only chargeing up Tiger Strike and then release it with Dragon tail and do over 60k of dmg.
60k sounds very extreme, and would probably have to involve a bunch of goofy items and some Pally auras, but even with modest gear Dtail certainly can destroy lots of monsters.

Keep in mind though that it's not quite as impressive as it sounds, because it takes some time to do it. The minimum amount of time being 3 Tigers and 1 Dtail release, so 28 frames at best.


And does using both 2 charges of Phoenix strike and 3 charges of Claws of Thunder add a hidden bonus dmg to lightning dmg? and the same with fire and ice?
FoF converts 3% per level of the physical damage on release to fire. This is a true conversion though--the total damage stays the same, just more of it is fire and less of it is physical.

None of the other Assassin skills have such a property. It's funny you mention combining CoT and Phoenix though, as there is a quirk with those skills that can actually make this cause less damage than you'd expect. I don't really want to explain why, but search for posts here about 'nextdelay' and you'll see what I mean.



 

robzombiesslave

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

^^^ pretty much covered it.

However, idk if 60k is as hard as it sounds to get. But you are probably correct about the goofy items. I remember my C/S, Ts/Dtail did 40kwith fairly cheap gear.

It doesnt kill quiet as fast as other builds, but its a vEry fun build. And although the killing speed isnt that impressive. Once charged up and released. Its so cool.
 

Selune

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

All I know is people make all these guides how they only put 20 in Tiger Strike And Dtail and they kan kill mobs in hell difficulty.

My old Assassin (That I deleted because she wasn't good) Couldent kill the mobs in hell with Dtail.

So I was just wondering how they did it, and why they did so much dmg, I could get nothing more than 1000 on my Dtail.

I was just reading thought the builds and the FAQ and they wrote alot about things that I just cant seem to understand, how things did more dmg when combined and so on.

I think I will put some quotes on the things I mean, that will maybe help to understand what I am talking about :)
 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

I could get nothing more than 1000 on my Dtail.
Hmm... either you didn't charge up Tiger Strike - or didn't look at your DTail dmg after having charged up TStrike -, or you were going bootless :O

My friend used Nat's Set, which means horrible kick damage, and still managed more than 10k on budget gear...
 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

^^^ pretty much covered it.

However, idk if 60k is as hard as it sounds to get. But you are probably correct about the goofy items. I remember my C/S, Ts/Dtail did 40kwith fairly cheap gear.

It doesnt kill quiet as fast as other builds, but its a vEry fun build. And although the killing speed isnt that impressive. Once charged up and released. Its so cool.
Ok, I think you need to sacrifice alot to get this kind of damage. And you also need Might and Fanaticm aura by your side.

Here is the formula for kicks:

MinDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus1) / 100 + BootMinDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus2 + non_weapon ED + Aura_ED) / 100
MaxDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus1) / 100 + BootMaxDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus2 + non_weapon ED + Aura_ED) / 100
Aura_ED: Let's take Paladin auras at level 30 - Fanaticm 271% and Might 430% gives us a total of 701% from auras.
StrBonus is constant and is always 120.
skill_bonus is TigerStrike, which is 2640% at level 40.
Non_weapon_ED: Fortitude + Steelrenders + Phoenix shield gives us 710 ED from equipment.
BootMinDam = 83 (Myrmideon Greaves)
BootMaxDam = 149 (Myrmideon Greaves)
Strength = 700
Dexterity = 100
Dragon Tail bonus = 340 at level 30

Yeah, now we're talking. Maximum damage: 60030! Minimum 45188.
I guess you have some elemental damage to take into account. Say you manage to add up to 2000 elemental damage. That still means that you will need 750 strength in order to reach 60k damage.


 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

Aura_ED: Let's take Paladin auras at level 30 - Fanaticm 271% and Might 430% gives us a total of 701% from auras.
StrBonus is constant and is always 120.
skill_bonus is TigerStrike, which is 2640% at level 40.
Non_weapon_ED: Fortitude + Steelrenders + Phoenix shield gives us 710 ED from equipment.
BootMinDam = 83 (Myrmideon Greaves)
BootMaxDam = 149 (Myrmideon Greaves)
Strength = 700
Dexterity = 100
Dragon Tail bonus = 340 at level 30
Why lvl40 Tiger and lvl30 DTail? Because that means you have only 10 hard points in DTail...
 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

Why lvl40 Tiger and lvl30 DTail? Because that means you have only 10 hard points in DTail...
The InDiablo.de site was down for the moment, so I could not check the level 40 attack damage. I did have level 30 written down previously though...

Level 40 Dtail give us 440% damage bonus. That means we need 510 strength without any other elemental damage. With elemental damage, say 2000, we would need about 480 strength.

But you see my point. In 91 levels, you get 5*91 = 455 points to spend. Add this to bonus from quests and equipment, and you'll hardly have any points left to spend on vitality.

Without Auras, you'll need 628 Strength, 100 Dexterity, Level 40 Dtail, Level 40 Tiger Strike, Phoenix Shield, Fortitude, Myrmideon Greaves and Steelrenders.

With no auras, no ED from items, and 100 Dexterity, Level 40 Dtail, Level 40 Tiger Strike and Myrmideon Greaves, you need 751 Strength and 100 Dexterity.


 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

I see... basically 60k is kinda rubbish.

Maybe they're partying with a hammerdin and a necro and factored in a lvl 42 concentration and the amplify damage :rolleyes:
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

It's not too terribly hard to get levels of more than 40 in the Martial Arts, though its tough to do it both with legit gear and with a build that is practical in other ways.

I think the theoretical max for a solo player, no shrines, 1.1+ gear would be

Claws: 12
Ammy: 3
Gloves: 3
Hat: 3
Armor: 2
Rings: 2
Belt: 1
Charms: 13

So level 59, before BO and shrine. A more practical build might get to 50 or so.

Of course the easy way to increase the listed damage as well as the real output is with Might/Concentration/Fana. And if you're just interested in big character screen numbers, Enchant and Venom. And, uh, small lightning charms. :laugh:

Amp + Conviction would be far more effective than any of that, but wouldn't be reflected on the character screen.
 

Selune

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

I think I have worked out what it is people are talking about, someone kept saying that Dtail does more dmg when u use Tiger Strike before it.

This is what made me understand it better
DT will be our main releaser for this build. The explosive kick will cause great fire damage based on how much physical damage you do and will be partnered with Mymidon Greaves to maximise its potential.
So now I know how Dtail do more dmg combined with Tiger Strike, because the damage of the fire encreases with attack power it seems.
That is one of my questions enlightened for me :D

Now one more little question, if u charge up Claws of Thunder as an example and release it with normal strike, you do the certain ammount of dmg it says, now if u release it with a dragon finish move, does it do more dmg, because it gives a bonus to the charge-ups? Because it will add the attackpower from the Dragon Finish to the charge-ups?
I think that is what the game means with, "adds charge up bonuses to the kick", for Dtail as an example.

Or what exactly does it mean?

~Selune
 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

Now one more little question, if u charge up Claws of Thunder as an example and release it with normal strike, you do the certain ammount of dmg it says, now if u release it with a dragon finish move, does it do more dmg, because it gives a bonus to the charge-ups? Because it will add the attackpower from the Dragon Finish to the charge-ups?
No. Your elemental damage will stay the same. Only damage difference would be the physical component, between a normal attack and a dragon finishing move. The reason why C/C elemental assassins finish with DClaw is its massive AR, also a quicker chance to release the charges in case the first hit misses. Keep in mind that if AR isn't a problem at all, normal attack would be better as it is faster than any Dragon finishing move (can anyone confirm this?)

The reason why DTail and TStrike get a build of their own is exactly because of this: they are the only charge-up/release set whose damage will be multiplied, not added.
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Please help, before I loose my mind...

All it really means is that you can release charges with them. With the exception of Tiger + Dtail, using the finishing moves just gives you a few extra things:

Talon: Lots of AR, knockback, multiple chances to release per attack, and maybe some good boot damage/effects depending on your equipment.

Dclaw: Lots of AR, two chances to release per attack, and potentially some good claw damage

Dtail: Some AR, area knockback, some extra boot and area damage. Not particularly fast though, and less common than the first two to use as a finisher with anything but Tiger.

Dflight: Lots of AR, teleport, potentially some good boot damage. Somewhat buggy, and very slow--more of a utility skill for most builds rather than something to use all the time.
 
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