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PKing

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by TopheavyHookjaw, Mar 17, 2004.

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  1. TopheavyHookjaw

    TopheavyHookjaw IncGamers Member

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    PKing

    Now this is an issue that I am fairly familiar with. After years of debate and countless posts (both read and written) I have come to one conclusion.

    It is all a matter of consent. If two people consent to fight, then it is just that, a fight. If one person does not consent, then it is assault or worse (depending upon the results).

    If a person is just playing a game and is hositled and killed through some lamer trigger hack or other exploit, it is not consentual and should not be acceptable (Blizzard has made an attempt to limit this...although I personally think they could have done a better job). If on the other hand, a person is playing in a game and is hostiled but remains in the game to interact with the PK, then it is consentual and everything is fair.

    Now some may argue that just by being in a public game makes it consentual. I would have to disagree. That would be the same as saying that by stepping out the front door makes it acceptable for somebody to come up and assault me without provocation or warning. However, if that person pushes me and I push back and the actions lead to a knock-down, drag-out brawl...this is consentual and acceptable.

    As for my personal perspective. PKing people through hacks and exploits are about a low as you can go. Talk about the epitimy of a malicious act...why not just mug grandma while you're at it? However, PKing through legitimate hunting is part of the game. While I don't condone the actions I can understand the challenge and the thrill. If you don't like PKing, don't play public games with people you don't know or just TP out when hostiled.

    On an even more personal note.. Believe me, I can understand the pain of loosing a high level character with really good equipment to a lamer (druid drop hack comes to mind). It sucks and I would personally punch the person's lights out for doing it to me (if only I could). I know, not mature, but it would definately feel real good. Being hunted, while initially scary, can be kinda fun. For example, one time a stupid, cocky, pre -res 1.10 hydra sorc tried to kill my then 95% res/fire absorb pali and then got sloppy going after the ears of the other two people who died in the game...might merc with cruel war pike and my fantacism aura killed her in one jab. :lol:

    Just my 0.02$
     
  2. BtK-radth

    BtK-radth IncGamers Member

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    so i says to maybel i says...
     
  3. Unholy_VI

    Unholy_VI IncGamers Member

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    Years of being a PKer in numerous online games have led me to one conclusion too:

    People will always cry about PKers having no morals.

    They will do this as they mule their duped SOJs make hundreds of MF runs using their Maphack so there is absolutely no danger to their char.

    They will do this as they tell you graphicaly all about the physical violence they would do to a PKer if they ever met one face to face.

    they will become indignantly enraged if you point out to them that the ability to playerkill is a FEATURE of the game THEY bought and THEY play. And that there are many othr games out there that you can buy if you dont like PK.

    My feeling is this:
    about 25% of the people play the game straight and don't cheat if they know a way to do it. Most of these if they get pk'd pick themselves up, dust themselves off and learn from it. Becuase of this they are good players and rearely get PKd other than a hack.

    The rest, who cares? I hope I kill all their lame chars and send them packing to softcore or to a different game

    Blizzard all but destroyed Legit PK with this ridiculous 10 second WP timer. so the peopel who want no pk other than duels pretty much got their wish as its hard to see someone being lame enough not to be able to exit the game within ten sec of being hostiled.

    Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks. After all I bought the game knowing that PK was a part of it and in a large part I bought the game BECUASE of that fact.

    If they are going to turn around now and say 'well, ok you can pk but we'll just make it next to impossible to do it within the rules' I hope this motivates PKers with the know-how to find ways to turn the tables legal or not.

    I didnt used to support the hackers becuase all it used to take was a little bit of skill and knowledge of the game to get your PK ears. Now even though I don't and never will cheat, I hope the message gets sent to blizzard:

    'PK is part of what we bought this game for, and if you are going to take legit pk away we are going to find another way to do what we bought the game to do.'

    Like you say, everything now is essentially a duel. There really is no more PK other than the high level guys lurking around the sewer games. yee-hah. How fun.
     
  4. CookiesnCream

    CookiesnCream IncGamers Member

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    And you know what's funny? When Pkers don't duel. This is an argument most people just touch on, but well over 90% of people who tried to pk me would not fight a good dueler. 5% of pkers would actually accept a duel and back up what they say, the other 95% just sit in town or leave the game after scanning your gear with maphack. Or they'll duel and use chicken hack. Legit PKing is part of the game, but any PKer that can't duel should be the ones who should close their mouths.

    And there will always be PKers who refuse to duel and only PK PvMers they know they can kill. Where exactly is the merit in that? Some people like the thrill of the hunt and others like ears. But when a PKer CAN'T or won't duel other PvP chars, they should be the ones who need to close their mouths instead of saying "people will always complain about PKers but its part of the game". So is dueling. and we all know that most of the people who use that phrase don't duel other PvP chars. I've only made one hardcore dueling char and I've had people refuse to duel me. The difference between PK and PvP, is that the PvP is designed to fight others who are PvP. The PK is designed to fight weaker chars: PvMers. The PvMers will put up a weak fight where as PvPer will fight someone else who is PvP rather than a much weaker PvM char. Want an example? Someone made a game titled " 'xxxx' come". (forgot the person's name). Apparently there was pally outside in blood moor and then the person who's name was in the title decided to join the game. They both fought each other and the person who intitially made the game killed the other and the dead guy quickly left the game. I asked why he killed the other char and he responded with "that guy pked my lower lvl character". So dueling char > PK char in a fair fight. Some people can do both, but most can't. That's why they PK instead of PvP. The fact is, when PKers refuse to duel other PvP chars, perhaps they should also go back to softcore as well. Everything is not essentially a duel, a PvP against a PvM is much different against a PvP vs another PvP. But I play public games, and everyone knows how public dueling games are.
     
  5. Syxx

    Syxx IncGamers Member

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    Sorry Unholy_VI, but as far as I am concerned, you have just "shot yourself in the foot" with your statement above.

    By approving of cheats and hacks ... your opinion is not worth the trons used to display them.

    Regards Syxx
     
  6. toutim

    toutim IncGamers Member

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    Let's keep in mind, though, that 99% of pkers dupe, mf, and maphack.
    so...
     
  7. Unholy_VI

    Unholy_VI IncGamers Member

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    so they are pretty much like the rest of the community. :cheesy:
     
  8. Unholy_VI

    Unholy_VI IncGamers Member

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    ok to sum up your message if I understand it right....

    'If you are out pking you are a lamer if you won't duel a dueler.'

    I'm not out to change your mind or anyone elses about that. But you come with a good argument.

    Again it come down to the idea of what is the hostile button there for? If I decide to try and kill that level 20 necro with my level 12 paladin does that make me somehow obligated to fight his dueling char or anyone elses?

    A Pker is out to get ears, period. When a pker refuses to fight a char built for dueling its not much different than how a pvm player plays. The player doesnt do run after run on a boss that his char is ill equipped to deal with.

    No.

    He (or she) goes for the ones he feels will give him the best return in items and exp for the least risk of dying.

    Same thinking with the pker

    If I want to get a stash full of ears whats better, go after a bunch of pvm guys which I've built to be effective against? Or pick fights with people who have optimized their chars just for such battles?

    A dueler is out to prove he is the m4d pwn4g3 over your n00bi3 s00k4g3 or whatever. A pker isnt making that claim. hes just trying to get ears. Thats all. so if someone bigger or badder comes in and thinks hes a puss for not fighting, he cares less.

    Thats part of the beauty of this game, YOU define winning based on what makes you happy. For some its having the uber l33t high-end items or the perfect build or a level 99, or a rep as an elite dueler. To me its about having fun and getting ears. I don't have the time or patience to build up a perfect dueling char and I dont really care that there are people out there who can hand me my rear end. I've lost my share of fights in this game and so what? I've won a bunch too! :winner:
     
  9. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    Good that I am one of the 1% then!

    PK as you see fit, but if you cheat you suck at it.
     
  10. SonOfRah

    SonOfRah IncGamers Member

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    Claps :)


    And Unholy........I'd like to see how that length is one conclusion.....looked to me that that was a heap of conclusions *GRIN*
     
  11. terrymanning

    terrymanning IncGamers Member

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    You guys crack me up. The very first argument all of the PK-ers use is:

    Blizzard intended PvP to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.

    Well kids, that logic has a double edge to it.

    Blizzard intended the ten-second hostile delay to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.

    So you guys run off at the mouth about how you deserve to be able to PK someone and you'll do what ever it takes, including cheating, to do it. All the time complaining about chicken hack users and whining like a little girl.

    The very second you bypass the, Blizzard intended, ten second hostile delay and then complain about anyone else cheating, you become a run-of-the-mill, dime-a-dozen hypocrite.

    If you can’t play the game within the rules, it’s definitely time to find another game. And if you have to cheat at a game to feel a sense of accomplishment, you have bigger problems than cheating at a game.

    TM
     
  12. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    hehe, people that have to cheat to "enjoy" the game are about as low as you can go. PKs are here and they are here to stay.

    there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

    besides, if your smart, as a previous poster said, you will NOT lose your ear. if they hostile and your in a baal run or sewer etc etc eather TP to town and wate them out or just save/exit. the only time i can immagine this not working is if your right close to the WP and they come bareling down on you.

    simply put...play smart, its what hard core is all about. if you dont play smart then that PK just hastened the inevitable. heck, if you want to be a twisted oaf then you could say that meph is a great PK, or even more so the monsters before him. for they truely collect a LOT of ears...
     
  13. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    So how many pages y'all reckon this whine-fest will go on. I'll put the over/under at 6 pages.

    I've said it time and time again, you are more than welcome to try and kill me. I don't think you can. If you hostile me, I'll tp to town, get a beer, and make fun of you until my fingers hurt.

    Come to think of it, I welcome the hostile siren; I'm thirsty and heckly.
     
  14. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    funny how i always follow that 10 second timer... b*tch at someone else ;)
     
  15. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    And you antipkers crack me up, each time you argue, you take pking as one sort of pking.
    I pked alot, and alot of the start of 1.10, i didnt use the wp bypass bug, there is alot of pks who dont use that bug.
    You cant argue there is something wrong with legit pking, you can complain to blizz that there is bug and cheats out. but you cant argue with legit pking.
    As long as you follow the rules set by blizz pking you cant convince me in anyway that pking is bad.
     
  16. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Be carefull with percents as even without proof of numbers I would argue this statment all day long! i know of many PKs that are legit, I may not like PK and actually despize most PKs but I would bet $100 that this 99% is wrong!

    I have a much different thought process with PK in 1.10 than I had in 1.09. With a 10 second timer (if not circumvented) if you stay and get PKed you either wanted to fight, or flat out didnt know anyhting about PK and in this instance maybe it was good to get PKed as you will never forget it.

    My one major issue with PK that most PKs never will accept is that there is little challenge in most PK attempts. They are usually way over powered for thier targets, or simply killing new players that dont have the slightest idea that this lvl 12 Pally, sin....etc can smoke thier lvl 25. Sun this all up and in general PKs simply kill "noobs" (Noobs, a term I dont like).

    Another issue I have with most PKs is simple manners.......and yes a PK can have some manners. If a PK comes in, hostiles, trys to kill, realizes all have left or are in town and then leaves, I have no issues.

    Now if they come in and realize there is no kill chance and decides to "challenge", "call out" people by calling them "noobs" or insist on staying and ruining the game, or killing the "quest" then we have a low life piece of _______ Fill in the blank!

    BTW for you fools running around calling peeps "NOOBS" for not fighting you or other reasons, please use your brain and think as the ones who didnt stay out there so you could kill them are not "noob" they are expierenced to PK and have made the right choice.

    BTW, in my exp the ones running around calling everyone "NOOBS" tend to be the real noobs of this game as they wont fight equal or stronger foes and only mess with obvious weaker ones, or use illegit means to get ears.

    Illegit killing is not PK, it is simply hack or cheat and deserves no title other than LAME, WEAK, or PATHETIC!

    Have a good day!
     
  17. terrymanning

    terrymanning IncGamers Member

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    I think you may have missed my point. :scratch: I was in no way complaining about legitimate PK-ers. I was however, bringing up the way that some PK-ers choose to use an argument when it suites their purpose but disregard the same argument when it doesn't.

    As for PK-ing being bad, I suppose it depends on what side of the BSnap charger you are on. :uhhuh:

    TM
     
  18. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    yep, i stopped reading this thread right abou there... sounds like a real winner to me... :evil:
     
  19. BtK-radth

    BtK-radth IncGamers Member

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    unholy, whats ur acc?
     
  20. laughingtiger

    laughingtiger IncGamers Member

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    Sorry, can't agree with you on this. As I stated to someone else in a previous PK-Anti PK thread: Intelligence. Patience. Innovation. Skills based upon ingenuity and the ability to work within the parameters of any given set of game rules are what engender respect in people.

    I choose to play mostly private games with friends whom I've developed a good on-line relationship with because of all the static and bs that grief and hack pk's have brought into the game. If those things weren't such a factor, I would have no problems playing in pubbies. On occassion, I might even stick around to rise to the occassion. But with the state of the game as it is with regards to cheats, exploits and griefers, I'll take my gaming privately.

    Regards,

    Laughing Tiger :howdy:
     
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