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Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by SeCKSEgai, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I'm not all that great with math and trying to compile all the statistics would be ill-advised for me to say the least, as I probably would have error-filled sources to begin with.

    Has anyone ever done a detailed analysis of drops in these areas? I would probably ask Hrus, but not even sure if he's still active on the forums.

    Ultimately, I'm curious as to what is the most effective place to mf (of course). But trying to take into account magic vs unique and actual chances to drop is beyond me, as the best I've been doing is making educated guesses on Atma's drop calc (which I took some extra steps to update to 1.13 but not entirely sure of its validitiy).

    Say for example, I'm looking for tc87 drops. I know Baal and Pindle are lacking there, but taking into account drop rates of the nearby uniques in chaos and totaling them together.

    Like say we calculate overall total drop chances for Chaos, and compare them to Baal throne room and Baal, which is overall more effective? Baal can drop practically everything (both a good and bad thing) but the uniques on the way to him drop more like champions. Big D can't drop some of the good stuff, as well as the seal bosses, but the regular uniques and regular monsters can drop just about anything.

    Or say instead of chaos vs baal, it be like pits or AT vs baal or chaos. Pits and AT are far easier, and the potential for nice drops may not be as high, but total drops could actually be higher.

    Have any of the math junkies (or hardcore mfers) done an analysis similar to this?
     
  2. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    This thread may interest you.
     
  3. Thomh

    Thomh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I know Baal is the worst of the targets if you want to find TC87s, for sure. I can`t imagine it`s good for anything else compared to the other targets when it comes to anything else either, with the possible exception of TC3s.
     
  4. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Thank you, that's exactly what kind of comparison I was looking for =)


     
  5. Ohomemgrande

    Ohomemgrande IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    The biggest problem with Baal is that you need to be able to have very fast times and still have a decent amount of MF to compete with AT or Pindle in the S/U TC87 drops.

    If you can get fast times (I think sub 3:00 min), then I think Baal can compete with Pindle or AT in TC87 S/U drop rate. It's been a while since I've done any analysis but that's what I found.

    As always, the best target is the one you can run the fastest with the highest amount of MF.



     
  6. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I consider the best target the one you enjoy playing the most... it has little to do with "fastest" for me. Magic finding isn't a task for the impatient. If you're not enjoying yourself, you'll likely quit before you find what you want. If you are enjoying yourself, eventually you'll get everything possible from that location.
     
  7. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    +1. It is for this reason that I can't stand doing dedicated MF'ing on anything but Pindle (and Meph in v1.09).

    There is not enough visible reward in running Pits/AT/WSK - I'd rather smack around an Act Boss or SuperUnique quickly than run an extended area most of the time. My current MF'ing character is a pure bliz Tal's sorc - good for Pindle, Meph and AT. I also have a MS zon for the pit. But I don't like using either of them.

    That all said, I recently re-tooled my clvl 98 sorc to pack a little more MF (now running with 153%) because since I'm going to be in Throne + Baal a lot, I thought it would be prudent, say, for that Death's Web I've been longing after.



     
  8. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Yeah, running pits/at it can feel a lot longer before I find anything, which can be quite frustrating. Honestly with all 5 acts, it all feels extremely repetitive as I get bits of deja vu when I'm running.

    It's funny, when I first started SP I enjoyed it more because I wasn't in that mf rush. Now I find myself tweaking this or that to see if it helps or hinders. While not having to worry about getting realm'd out is nice, the same runs over and over just get old for me.

    I did start running AT again, and first run a perty lil jah dropped. And nothing worth mentioning since then - the joys of mf.
     
  9. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    The bottom line is that if your goal is a complete grail (or nearly so), then you can get there with any of these targets. It will take a hugely long time - so I'd actually recommend running ALL of them. I don't think I would have ever gotten close to completing the grail running a single target. I typically change targets every week or two, and have multiple characters specifically built for each target. Thats what keeps it fresh and fun for me....
     
  10. tavaritz

    tavaritz Banned

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I think like NF: people think Baal totally wrong. He's not the target. He is the icing on the cake or the cherry on the sunday named WSK. Most drops come from WSK, but why not kill Baal when you've come that far.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  11. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    WSK is one thing, but there are other areas easier for most builds at the same level. Personally, if I'm going to bother with baal at all, I skip the majority of wsk unless I see flayers since they dropped my first jah ever, that and I like watching the chain CE.

    According to atma, he's got one of the highest chances for tc87 items, but from what I've been reading elsewhere on the forums is its still more efficient to frequent the other lvl 85 areas as they're easier to clear and are done much faster.
     
  12. Painman

    Painman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Right now the vast majority of my MFing is @ Pindle with my blizzsorc. That nets me items, while A85 MF runs mostly produce crafting supplies and get me a bit frustrated. I still do a lot of A85, but with my Faith zon at /p7 and minimal %MF to look for socketables. That's been fairly productive and fun.

    Lately when I do go MFing @ A85, it's been with my Mav's set zon in AT and CS. She's not as "efficient" as my blizzy, but I find her fun to play, so I don't mind as much if I don't come away from these runs with lots of hard loot.

    It's like Shags said... none of it is worth doing if you're not enjoying it.
     
  13. Thomh

    Thomh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    We actually have a rather large amount of empirical data by looking at the MFOs over the years.

    I just had a quick glance through the last 4 MFOs and Baal doesn`t look good.
     
  14. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Hrus's guide is here. It should have all the numbers, details, etc. that you could ever want. In it he explains the whys and wherefores of each major target, and also puts in the average amount of boss packs in mlvl 85 areas. Lots of good info there.
     
  15. Corale

    Corale IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Well said, my thoughts exactly. For me, I mix a lot, running some AT, some Meph, and some pindle each day basically. Not good for optimal speed, but it is fun, so I play, and so I get items :)


     
  16. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    Actually it doesn't hence me asking originally.

    I was looking for more specific data, like the link posted on the previous page. I myself used to think baal was a prime target for tc87, but considering the length of time to get to him and all the other possible items he can drop, I've been finding that overall mf is better elsewhere. I've done hundreds of baal runs, its good to finally know that ts not unreasonable to go through pits or AT as the amount of bosses outweigh baal's drop chance.


     
  17. EatSleepDiablo

    EatSleepDiablo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I am just under 800 runs with WSK/Baal and have been tracking every S/U and HR drop, by level, minion, and Baal.

    I'll post my results every 1000 runs (im taking my zon to 99),with the first installment about 1-2 weeks away.

    My TC87 count is around 12 or 13, including some that are highly coveted (albeit with poor rolls), along with a bevy of HRs and 3-4 TC3s.

    Prior to this, I ran AT with a Blizz, taking her from low 80s to lvl 94-95. Runs may be quicker, safer, and more predictable, but less rewarding for me. Drops are what keep me going, and I find WSK superior in that regard.
     
  18. buckies

    buckies IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    A lot of this is dependent on what char you're running with and what they're best at killing.

    IMO, Blizz sorcs should stick to AT. I did 300 Baal runs with mine for poor rewards and mass frustration and boredom. AT by comparison is much faster, and definitely yields me better commercial worth per hour of running. I also find the runs far more enjoyable, and you can't put a price on run happiness/sanity.

    Next for me is a Titan WW barb who will run Trav/WSK/Cows and Chaos Sanct.
     
  19. xxnothing

    xxnothing IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    I found that by running the WSK on my way to Baal, I get more enjoyment out of my runs. Yep, it adds a ton of time, but I like the variety. I did AT for the last MFO and was sick of it by the time we were done. ;) It was so bad I started running Meph and LK between AT runs just to get a little variety in my life. Ditto the Pindlethon... after that thing I didn't visit Pindle again for months!
    If you have a character you enjoy playing and that can effectively run both WSK and Baal in a decent manner with decent MF, then you're good to go IMO. You get both alvl85 AND Baal. As previously noted, Baal is just icing on the cake! :D

    EDIT: obviously if you're in something like the MFO under the "Baal" category you have to keep the WSK drops separate... but it's nice to think I might be helping my grail whether the drops qualify for the tourney or not.
     
  20. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pits vs Chaos vs Baal vs Pindle

    After some preliminary testing, I'm so far seeing Pits and Chaos vying for top two spots in drops with AT in third and Baal miserably last. Didn't factor pindle since he's like a mini AT/Pit run on his own.

    Pits and Chaos Have a solid concentration of uniques and champions, and chaos of course has Diablo. During my baal runs, I did better off the uniques in throne room than I did off baal himself (not counting the waves as they drop worse than regular uniques). AT its the lack of uniques/champions along with the slower killing speed of cold (as opposed to lite/fire) that lead to its ranking (for me).

    I would have never considered chaos as a run spot pre-1.13 since that was effectively hdin territory because of IM killing off mercs. Now, I find it far more enjoyable than Baal, not to mention I hadn't previously known that uniques other than seal bosses along with minions had the potential to drop every item in game.
     

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