Pindle vs. Eldritch - 100 runs each

DarkChaos

Diabloii.Net Member
Pindle vs. Eldritch - 100 runs each

I wanted to see who had a higher consitency in dropping items because I was bored of Pindle running. I tried out some Eldritches and found some decent stuff like Winged Knife, Tomahawk, and Hellforge Plate within one hour. Those runs I didn't record but then started to do runs and recording the drops. I included the bosses right beside Eldritch as legitamate for dropping items in an Eldritch run, though I did not kill the Prowling Deads near Pindle.

For comparison's sake, I made this and noted all the rare TC 87 items that dropped from Pindle and his minions because that is Pindle's big advantage - higher TC drops. I also noted failed set/unique elite item drops. I made this table so everyone can look at it and see the fastest place to get good items fast. I will note, however, that when I started Eldritch runs, my necro was level 89. Over the course of these runs I levelled to 90, giving me +1% more from Ali Baba and 1% more from Enigma runeword armor. The Pindle runs were all done at level 90, and my merc had 0% MF on him. The necro's total MF was 513% at level 89 and 515% at level 90. I bolded the elite drops/good drops, even if they were failed, and of course, runs are still based largely on luck. Here are the item drops:

Eldritch runs

1 - Ogre Maul
2 - 2 rares
3 - 2 rares
4 - 2 rares
5 - 2 rares
6 - Ring (Raven Frost), blue
7 - 2 rares
8 - 1 rare, 1 blue
9 - Fanged Knife, 1 rare
10 - 1 rare, 1 blue
11 - 2 rares
12 - 1 rare, 1 blue
13 - 2 rares
14 - 2 rares
15 - 1 rare, 1 blue
16 - 2 rares
17 - 2 rares
18 - 2 rares
19 - 2 rares
20 - 1 rare, 1 blue
21 - 2 rares
22 - 2 rares
23 - 2 rares
24 - 2 rares
25 - 1 rare, 1 blue
26 - 1 rare, 1 blue
27 - 1 rare, 1 blue
28 - 1 rare, 1 blue
29 - 1 rare, Double Axe
30 - 2 rares
31 - 1 rare, 1 blue
32 - 2 rares
33 - 2 rares
34 - 1 rare, 1 blue
35 - 1 rare, 1 blue *** Levelled up to 90
36 - 2 rares
37 - 1 rare, 1 blue
38 - Mithiril Coil, 1 blue
39 - 2 rares
40 - 1 rare, 1 blue
41 - 2 rares
42 - 2 rares
43 - 2 rares
44 - 1 rare, 1 blue
45 - 1 rare, 1 blue
46 - 2 rares
47 - 2 rares, Cryptic Sword from Slayer boss near Eldritch.
48 - 2 rares
49 - 1 rare, 1 blue
50 - 2 rares
51 - 2 rares
52 - 2 rares
53 - 2 rares
54 - 2 blues
55 - 2 rares
56 - 2 rares
57 - 2 rares
58 - 2 rares
59 - 2 rares
60 - 2 rares
61 - 1 rare, 1 blue
62 - 2 blues
63 - 1 rare, 1 blue
64 - 1 rare, 1 blue
65 - 2 rares
66 - 1 rare, 1 blue
67 - 1 rare, 1 blue
68 - 2 rares
69 - 1 rare, 1 blue
70 - 2 rares
71 - 1 rare, 1 blue
72 - 1 rare, 1 blue
73 - 2 rares
74 - 1 rare, 1 blue
75 - 2 rares
76 - 1 rare, 1 blue
77 - 2 rares
78 - 2 rares
79 - 1 rare, 1 blue
80 - 1 rare, 1 blue
81 - 1 rare, 1 blue
82 - 1 rare, 1 blue
83 - 2 rares
84 - 2 rares
85 - 1 rare, 1 blue
86 - 1 rare, 1 blue
87 - 2 blues
** - 2 rares
89 - 1 rare, 1 blue
90 - 2 rares
91 - 2 rares
92 - 2 blues
93 - 1 rare, 1 blue
94 - 1 rare, 1 blue
95 - Chain Boots, 1 blue
96 - 1 rare, 1 blue
97 - 2 rares
98 - 2 rares
99 - Flawless Amethyst, 1 rare
100 - Gauntlets, 1 blue

Pindle Runs

1 - 1 rare, 1 blue
2 - 1 rare, 1 blue
3 - Full Helm, 1 rare
4 - 2 rares
5 - Flawless Sapphire, 1 blue
6 - 2 rares
7 - 2 rares
8 - Flawless Sapphire, 1 rare
9 - 2 rares
10 - 1 rare, 1 blue
11 - 1 rare, 1 blue
12 - 2 rares
13 - 2 rares
14 - 2 blues
15 - Flawless Amethyst, 1 blue
16 - 1 rare, 1 blue
17 - 1 rare, 1 blue, Guardian Crown from minions
18 - 2 rares
19 - 2 rares
20 - 2 rares
21 - 2 rares
22 - 2 rares
23 - 2 blues
24 - 2 rares
25 - 2 rares
26 - 2 blues
27 - Monarch, 1 blue
28 - 1 rare, 1 blue
29 - 2 rares
30 - 1 rare, failed Monarch
31 - 2 rares
32 - 2 rares
33 - 1 rare, 1 blue
34 - 1 rare, 1 blue
35 - Broad Sword, Giant sword
36 - 2 rares
37 - 2 rares
38 - 2 rares (Ogre Gauntlets)
39 - 2 rares
40 - 2 rares
41 - 1 rare, 1 blue
42 - 1 rare, 1 blue
43 - 2 rares
44 - Short Battle Bow, 1 rare
45 - 2 rares
46 - 1 rare, 1 blue
47 - 2 rares
48 - 2 rares
49 - 2 rares
50 - 2 rares
51 - 2 blues
52 - 2 rares
53 - 2 rares
54 - 2 rares
55 - 1 rare, 1 blue
56 - 2 rares
57 - 2 rares
58 - 1 rare, 1 blue
59 - 2 blues
60 - 1 rare, 1 blue
61 - 2 rares
62 - 2 blues
63 - 2 rares
64 - 2 rares
65 - 1 rare, 1 blue
66 - 2 rares
67 - 1 rare, 1 blue
68 - 2 rares
69 - Lacquered Plate, 1 rare
70 - 1 rare, 1 blue
71 - Tower Shield, failed Stalagmite
72 - 2 blues
73 - 1 rare, 1 blue
74 - Dirk, 1 rare
75 - 2 rares
76 - 1 rare, 1 blue
77 - 2 rares
78 - 2 rares
79 - Flawed Ruby, 1 rare
80 - 1 rare, 1 blue
81 - 2 rares
82 - 1 rare, 1 blue
83 - 1 rare, 1 blue
84 - 2 rares
85 - 1 rare, 1 blue
86 - Chipped Emerald, 1 rare
87 - 1 rare, failed Thresher
** - 2 rares
89 - 2 blues
90 - 2 rares
91 - 2 rares
92 - 1 rare, 1 blue
93 - 2 rares
94 - 2 rares
95 - 2 rares
96 - 1 rare, 1 blue, Gothic Shield from minions
97 - 1 rare, 1 blue
98 - 2 rares
99 - 1 rare, 1 blue
100 - 2 rares
 

DarkChaos

Diabloii.Net Member
farting bob said:
that is really very few unqiues out of 200 runs in total. nwo i can see why people dont do them as much..
It is true that they don't drop many uniques but they take under a minute each to run. I actually run a lot of things - not just Pindle, or the Pit, or Meph. It's more fun this way and items come from more unexpected places.
 
yes, it does get repeatative, and generally i cant spend more than an hour doign 1 area without moving on. if its somethign like eld, i'll only do a few runs, get bored and go somewhere else.
 

Hakai_no_Tenshi

Diabloii.Net Member
As Shade and the others will chime in with soon, Eldritch and other creatures in the Frigid Highland can all drop TC87 also. Since the area level overrides the monster level and the Frigid Highland being a level 81 area means that all the creatures there have their TCs upgraded to Act 5 (H) H2H A which included TC87. However, due to the fixed unique/set/rare/magic ratio for superuniques, Eldritch stands a better chance of uniques/sets dropping even though Pindleskin has a much higher chance of dropping a TC87 item.

Also, 100 runs is not statistically significant in determining who is "better". You need a lot more runs than that to see any sort of pattern.

--T
 

LprMan

Diabloii.Net Member
Hmm, not too many uniques/sets...There is some nice run result posts in 50 Pit runs-thread posted by Vorbiss (but I think im the only person posting there anymore :lol: ). Maybe we should compare those results some way?

btw how long did it take to make all those runs?
 

DarkChaos

Diabloii.Net Member
@LprMan: I saw those Pit runs - quite nice! The runs only took me two hours to complete. That's about 100 runs per hour - which is quite a lot.

@Hakai_no_Tenshi: I didn't know that Frigid Highlands could drop from TC87, though I was aware of Eldritch's higher chances to drop items of higher quality, which is why I wanted to compare in the first place. I wanted to see good chances for higher TCs but low chances for higher quality vs. lower chances of high TCs but better chances for higher quality. I am also aware that 100 runs is more or less based on luck, and that 1000+ runs are needed to determine who is better. I merely wanted to post my finds for each.
 

Thrugg

Diabloii.Net Member
Erm, what Doc meant to say ;) was :

Eldritch is mlvl 84 (area level 81 + 3 SU bonus) and has base TC Act 5 (H) Super A. Because the SU TCs have very high level requiremenets to upgrade, he does not. Super A has a max TC of TC84.

Eldritch's minions are mlvl 84 (area + 3 minion bonus). They do get an upgrade, to Act 5 (H) H2H B. This is enough to drop TC87 (though they do not get the quality bonus their boss does).

Other Frigid Highlands creatures are mlvl 81 (no bonus). They mostly do not get an upgrade either because their base TCs are at least that high. They drop from Act 5 (H) H2H, Miss or Cast A. Their max TC is also TC84.
 

Hakai_no_Tenshi

Diabloii.Net Member
Thrugg said:
Erm, what Doc meant to say ;) was :

Eldritch is mlvl 84 (area level 81 + 3 SU bonus) and has base TC Act 5 (H) Super A. Because the SU TCs have very high level requiremenets to upgrade, he does not. Super A has a max TC of TC84.

Eldritch's minions are mlvl 84 (area + 3 minion bonus). They do get an upgrade, to Act 5 (H) H2H B. This is enough to drop TC87 (though they do not get the quality bonus their boss does).

Other Frigid Highlands creatures are mlvl 81 (no bonus). They mostly do not get an upgrade either because their base TCs are at least that high. They drop from Act 5 (H) H2H, Miss or Cast A. Their max TC is also TC84.
Ach. Serves me right for not following Act 5 (H) Equip A all the way through :rolleyes: One day, I'm going to have to memorize all the sub-TC categories for the top level ones.

--T
 

whomhead

Diabloii.Net Member
Thrugg said:
Erm, what Doc meant to say ;) was :

Eldritch is mlvl 84 (area level 81 + 3 SU bonus) and has base TC Act 5 (H) Super A. Because the SU TCs have very high level requiremenets to upgrade, he does not. Super A has a max TC of TC84.

Eldritch's minions are mlvl 84 (area + 3 minion bonus). They do get an upgrade, to Act 5 (H) H2H B. This is enough to drop TC87 (though they do not get the quality bonus their boss does).

Other Frigid Highlands creatures are mlvl 81 (no bonus). They mostly do not get an upgrade either because their base TCs are at least that high. They drop from Act 5 (H) H2H, Miss or Cast A. Their max TC is also TC84.
what the heck did you just say? so, in english this time... can eldritch drop me a windforce? what about a tyrael's might? :D
 

Hakai_no_Tenshi

Diabloii.Net Member
whomhead said:
what the heck did you just say? so, in english this time... can eldritch drop me a windforce? what about a tyrael's might? :D
Eldritch himself and the other Frigid Highland creatures cannot drop TC87 but Eldritch's minions can (although their mlvl is too low to drop Tyreal's Might)

--T
 

Dave in the basement

Diabloii.Net Member
OOooh! I love these type of "results threads." Nicely done!

For those Pindle runners out there, how often do you reroll your maps. Or do you just wait for your luck to improve? I tend to become impatient, and I wondered what y'all do...

So please let me know what you think! Or, if needed, I can always make a new thread... Thanks!

Dave :D
 

flosch

Diabloii.Net Member
Hum... How does that "TC upgrade" and the area level override work? I think I understand how TCs work, and also the concept of the sub-TCs (a little bit of peeking into the mpq tables helped), but I don't know how the override and upgrade work with it. Anybody who can explain? Or perhaps someone took the time and wrote a guide you could point me to? ATM, I'm a bit clueless ;)
 

Thrugg

Diabloii.Net Member
The workings are non-trivial but I will give the fast version - if you are at the looking-at-MPQ stage you can probably follow it.

Monsters in NM and Hell have their mlvl changed to match the area level. They also have a base TC as set in monstats.txt. This base TC has a "level" and a "group", set in treasureclassex.txt. If there is another TC in the same group, with higher level, but not higher than the monster level, then the base TC will upgrade to this one. This process repeats until the monster has the highest level TC in that group that isn't above its mlvl.

The base TC can not downgrade, even if the level is too high to begin with.
Chest TCs do not upgrade.
Certain boss TCs do not upgrade.
Unique, Champ and SU TCs do upgrade, although in the case of SUs, the highest TC levels are much higher so it is rare for the high-end SUs to get a TC upgrade.

That about covers it. Any more detailed discussion you can probably find more help at the Statistics forum here, where I am spend more time as do people who know more about it than me :)
 

flosch

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, thanks, I think I get it now.
Statistics Forum? :xeek: I must have been partially blind not to realize there's a special forum for all my needs here! Another special forum, I mean :xrollseye
 
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