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Pindle vs. Eldritch - 100 runs each

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by DarkChaos, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. DarkChaos

    DarkChaos IncGamers Member

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    Pindle vs. Eldritch - 100 runs each

    I wanted to see who had a higher consitency in dropping items because I was bored of Pindle running. I tried out some Eldritches and found some decent stuff like Winged Knife, Tomahawk, and Hellforge Plate within one hour. Those runs I didn't record but then started to do runs and recording the drops. I included the bosses right beside Eldritch as legitamate for dropping items in an Eldritch run, though I did not kill the Prowling Deads near Pindle.

    For comparison's sake, I made this and noted all the rare TC 87 items that dropped from Pindle and his minions because that is Pindle's big advantage - higher TC drops. I also noted failed set/unique elite item drops. I made this table so everyone can look at it and see the fastest place to get good items fast. I will note, however, that when I started Eldritch runs, my necro was level 89. Over the course of these runs I levelled to 90, giving me +1% more from Ali Baba and 1% more from Enigma runeword armor. The Pindle runs were all done at level 90, and my merc had 0% MF on him. The necro's total MF was 513% at level 89 and 515% at level 90. I bolded the elite drops/good drops, even if they were failed, and of course, runs are still based largely on luck. Here are the item drops:

    Eldritch runs

    1 - Ogre Maul
    2 - 2 rares
    3 - 2 rares
    4 - 2 rares
    5 - 2 rares
    6 - Ring (Raven Frost), blue
    7 - 2 rares
    8 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    9 - Fanged Knife, 1 rare
    10 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    11 - 2 rares
    12 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    13 - 2 rares
    14 - 2 rares
    15 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    16 - 2 rares
    17 - 2 rares
    18 - 2 rares
    19 - 2 rares
    20 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    21 - 2 rares
    22 - 2 rares
    23 - 2 rares
    24 - 2 rares
    25 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    26 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    27 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    28 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    29 - 1 rare, Double Axe
    30 - 2 rares
    31 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    32 - 2 rares
    33 - 2 rares
    34 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    35 - 1 rare, 1 blue *** Levelled up to 90
    36 - 2 rares
    37 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    38 - Mithiril Coil, 1 blue
    39 - 2 rares
    40 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    41 - 2 rares
    42 - 2 rares
    43 - 2 rares
    44 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    45 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    46 - 2 rares
    47 - 2 rares, Cryptic Sword from Slayer boss near Eldritch.
    48 - 2 rares
    49 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    50 - 2 rares
    51 - 2 rares
    52 - 2 rares
    53 - 2 rares
    54 - 2 blues
    55 - 2 rares
    56 - 2 rares
    57 - 2 rares
    58 - 2 rares
    59 - 2 rares
    60 - 2 rares
    61 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    62 - 2 blues
    63 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    64 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    65 - 2 rares
    66 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    67 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    68 - 2 rares
    69 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    70 - 2 rares
    71 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    72 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    73 - 2 rares
    74 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    75 - 2 rares
    76 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    77 - 2 rares
    78 - 2 rares
    79 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    80 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    81 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    82 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    83 - 2 rares
    84 - 2 rares
    85 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    86 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    87 - 2 blues
    ** - 2 rares
    89 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    90 - 2 rares
    91 - 2 rares
    92 - 2 blues
    93 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    94 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    95 - Chain Boots, 1 blue
    96 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    97 - 2 rares
    98 - 2 rares
    99 - Flawless Amethyst, 1 rare
    100 - Gauntlets, 1 blue

    Pindle Runs

    1 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    2 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    3 - Full Helm, 1 rare
    4 - 2 rares
    5 - Flawless Sapphire, 1 blue
    6 - 2 rares
    7 - 2 rares
    8 - Flawless Sapphire, 1 rare
    9 - 2 rares
    10 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    11 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    12 - 2 rares
    13 - 2 rares
    14 - 2 blues
    15 - Flawless Amethyst, 1 blue
    16 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    17 - 1 rare, 1 blue, Guardian Crown from minions
    18 - 2 rares
    19 - 2 rares
    20 - 2 rares
    21 - 2 rares
    22 - 2 rares
    23 - 2 blues
    24 - 2 rares
    25 - 2 rares
    26 - 2 blues
    27 - Monarch, 1 blue
    28 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    29 - 2 rares
    30 - 1 rare, failed Monarch
    31 - 2 rares
    32 - 2 rares
    33 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    34 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    35 - Broad Sword, Giant sword
    36 - 2 rares
    37 - 2 rares
    38 - 2 rares (Ogre Gauntlets)
    39 - 2 rares
    40 - 2 rares
    41 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    42 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    43 - 2 rares
    44 - Short Battle Bow, 1 rare
    45 - 2 rares
    46 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    47 - 2 rares
    48 - 2 rares
    49 - 2 rares
    50 - 2 rares
    51 - 2 blues
    52 - 2 rares
    53 - 2 rares
    54 - 2 rares
    55 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    56 - 2 rares
    57 - 2 rares
    58 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    59 - 2 blues
    60 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    61 - 2 rares
    62 - 2 blues
    63 - 2 rares
    64 - 2 rares
    65 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    66 - 2 rares
    67 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    68 - 2 rares
    69 - Lacquered Plate, 1 rare
    70 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    71 - Tower Shield, failed Stalagmite
    72 - 2 blues
    73 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    74 - Dirk, 1 rare
    75 - 2 rares
    76 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    77 - 2 rares
    78 - 2 rares
    79 - Flawed Ruby, 1 rare
    80 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    81 - 2 rares
    82 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    83 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    84 - 2 rares
    85 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    86 - Chipped Emerald, 1 rare
    87 - 1 rare, failed Thresher
    ** - 2 rares
    89 - 2 blues
    90 - 2 rares
    91 - 2 rares
    92 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    93 - 2 rares
    94 - 2 rares
    95 - 2 rares
    96 - 1 rare, 1 blue, Gothic Shield from minions
    97 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    98 - 2 rares
    99 - 1 rare, 1 blue
    100 - 2 rares
     
  2. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    that is really very few unqiues out of 200 runs in total. nwo i can see why people dont do them as much..
     
  3. DarkChaos

    DarkChaos IncGamers Member

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    It is true that they don't drop many uniques but they take under a minute each to run. I actually run a lot of things - not just Pindle, or the Pit, or Meph. It's more fun this way and items come from more unexpected places.
     
  4. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    yes, it does get repeatative, and generally i cant spend more than an hour doign 1 area without moving on. if its somethign like eld, i'll only do a few runs, get bored and go somewhere else.
     
  5. Hakai_no_Tenshi

    Hakai_no_Tenshi IncGamers Member

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    As Shade and the others will chime in with soon, Eldritch and other creatures in the Frigid Highland can all drop TC87 also. Since the area level overrides the monster level and the Frigid Highland being a level 81 area means that all the creatures there have their TCs upgraded to Act 5 (H) H2H A which included TC87. However, due to the fixed unique/set/rare/magic ratio for superuniques, Eldritch stands a better chance of uniques/sets dropping even though Pindleskin has a much higher chance of dropping a TC87 item.

    Also, 100 runs is not statistically significant in determining who is "better". You need a lot more runs than that to see any sort of pattern.

    --T
     
  6. LprMan

    LprMan IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, not too many uniques/sets...There is some nice run result posts in 50 Pit runs-thread posted by Vorbiss (but I think im the only person posting there anymore :lol: ). Maybe we should compare those results some way?

    btw how long did it take to make all those runs?
     
  7. DarkChaos

    DarkChaos IncGamers Member

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    @LprMan: I saw those Pit runs - quite nice! The runs only took me two hours to complete. That's about 100 runs per hour - which is quite a lot.

    @Hakai_no_Tenshi: I didn't know that Frigid Highlands could drop from TC87, though I was aware of Eldritch's higher chances to drop items of higher quality, which is why I wanted to compare in the first place. I wanted to see good chances for higher TCs but low chances for higher quality vs. lower chances of high TCs but better chances for higher quality. I am also aware that 100 runs is more or less based on luck, and that 1000+ runs are needed to determine who is better. I merely wanted to post my finds for each.
     
  8. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Erm, what Doc meant to say ;) was :

    Eldritch is mlvl 84 (area level 81 + 3 SU bonus) and has base TC Act 5 (H) Super A. Because the SU TCs have very high level requiremenets to upgrade, he does not. Super A has a max TC of TC84.

    Eldritch's minions are mlvl 84 (area + 3 minion bonus). They do get an upgrade, to Act 5 (H) H2H B. This is enough to drop TC87 (though they do not get the quality bonus their boss does).

    Other Frigid Highlands creatures are mlvl 81 (no bonus). They mostly do not get an upgrade either because their base TCs are at least that high. They drop from Act 5 (H) H2H, Miss or Cast A. Their max TC is also TC84.
     
  9. Hakai_no_Tenshi

    Hakai_no_Tenshi IncGamers Member

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    Ach. Serves me right for not following Act 5 (H) Equip A all the way through :rolleyes: One day, I'm going to have to memorize all the sub-TC categories for the top level ones.

    --T
     
  10. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    what the heck did you just say? so, in english this time... can eldritch drop me a windforce? what about a tyrael's might? :D
     
  11. Hakai_no_Tenshi

    Hakai_no_Tenshi IncGamers Member

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    Eldritch himself and the other Frigid Highland creatures cannot drop TC87 but Eldritch's minions can (although their mlvl is too low to drop Tyreal's Might)

    --T
     
  12. Dave in the basement

    Dave in the basement IncGamers Member

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    OOooh! I love these type of "results threads." Nicely done!

    For those Pindle runners out there, how often do you reroll your maps. Or do you just wait for your luck to improve? I tend to become impatient, and I wondered what y'all do...

    So please let me know what you think! Or, if needed, I can always make a new thread... Thanks!

    Dave :D
     
  13. flosch

    flosch IncGamers Member

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    Hum... How does that "TC upgrade" and the area level override work? I think I understand how TCs work, and also the concept of the sub-TCs (a little bit of peeking into the mpq tables helped), but I don't know how the override and upgrade work with it. Anybody who can explain? Or perhaps someone took the time and wrote a guide you could point me to? ATM, I'm a bit clueless ;)
     
  14. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    The workings are non-trivial but I will give the fast version - if you are at the looking-at-MPQ stage you can probably follow it.

    Monsters in NM and Hell have their mlvl changed to match the area level. They also have a base TC as set in monstats.txt. This base TC has a "level" and a "group", set in treasureclassex.txt. If there is another TC in the same group, with higher level, but not higher than the monster level, then the base TC will upgrade to this one. This process repeats until the monster has the highest level TC in that group that isn't above its mlvl.

    The base TC can not downgrade, even if the level is too high to begin with.
    Chest TCs do not upgrade.
    Certain boss TCs do not upgrade.
    Unique, Champ and SU TCs do upgrade, although in the case of SUs, the highest TC levels are much higher so it is rare for the high-end SUs to get a TC upgrade.

    That about covers it. Any more detailed discussion you can probably find more help at the Statistics forum here, where I am spend more time as do people who know more about it than me :)
     
  15. flosch

    flosch IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, thanks, I think I get it now.
    Statistics Forum? :xeek: I must have been partially blind not to realize there's a special forum for all my needs here! Another special forum, I mean :xrollseye
     

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