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Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by queenEm, May 17, 2010.

  1. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    This question has probably been asked before but how to find that in this huge forum? I don't know...

    I have returedn to my Fishymancer, DeadLarry, to take him the final acts in Hell. I stopped after act 1 because I needed some challenge and now decided to take him further. The only problem I am facing is the physical immunes.... They come in huge packs and then they bring their friends the Corebellies!!! Some uniques and champions in the pack and I am dead. Well not me but my skellies and my loyal moron.

    Regular fishy.
    Merc = might merc with Honor runeword as weapon. Might be a little weak in the armor but not that bad.
    I have some mages as well but they die before I have time to say Amp Damage!

    I am currently trying to get through Tal Rasha's tomb to find Duriel.

    Any good advice?
     
  2. Pyrates

    Pyrates Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Amplify Damage didn't work? That should actually deal with almost all PIs.
     
  3. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Actually, It works for a single PI and all my skellies working that same target. When there are 4-5 of them (with some unique also) they just don't have enough power and there is no way to run to spread them out.

    It should be enough with 1 point in Amp, right? At least that's in all the guides.

    There was also one situation with a... ehh.. what are they called? The summonoers that raise their own skellies in the tomb? With a wolf head sort of? Anyway. I encountered a champoin of those and the Amp didn't work there either. There was no golden cloud over his head and there was almost no damage to him by my entire army??
     
  4. LonghornRob

    LonghornRob Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    I thought Act 2 was a breeze. I just CEd everything I saw. Also, try reviving the blunderbores instead of blowing them up. They're good for heavy damage. For the immunes, revive the fire lords if there are any around. If Amp isn't taking away their immunity, then cast lower resist on them and let your mages and fire lords toast them.

    The champion unraveler you speak of was probably a Possessed champion. Possesseds cannot be cursed. They're a real pain for necros. Your best bet is to CE him as much as possible.
     
  5. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Hmm... I will try that. I haven't used that much revives before, simply because it has not been needed.

    Thanks for the suggestion!
     
  6. hubb

    hubb Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Afaik amp will break all phys immunities except for stone skin champions so the problem might be a lack of +skills and a good merc weapon. Does your merc have the might aura?
     
  7. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    He does. And he also has a rather good Honor runeword polearm. (I just found a tomb reaper that is GREAT! But he needs to be level 84 so I could level in Nightmare or something. He is currently level 77
     
  8. hubb

    hubb Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Grats on the tomb reaver, you should see a big difference in your killing speed with that thing. How many sockets does it have? The next attack speed breakpoint for him will be 92 ias. I'd put amn runes in the weapon and give him a treachery armor and guillame's face.

    I think you'll level too slowly in nightmare. Maybe try some pit runs? It's in the tamoe highland, act 1, in case you didn't know.
     
  9. Pyrates

    Pyrates Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    77 should be ok for hell, but there's nothing wrong with leveling either. Check http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=512 to determine the best location, right now A2 hell and up would be best (I simply assumed you're level 77 as well... if not, buy a new merc, but strip the old one of the gear first ^^).

    I'm still surprised you have trouble with the PIs, I can't remember having that. Hubb said correctly that there are only rare types of monster that will stay PI after an amp, in particular the "normal" mobs never stay PI, so they usually die quite easily. What type exactly are you talking about (other than those revivers)? Not being able to apply Amp might also be a positioning problem, D2 is a bit buggy there, try to move the mobs in that case. What's your skilltree? I do drag around 13-15 mages, they do help of course, but I didn't have those when levelling really...

    (e) I don't like life leech on my merc really, check http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=765905 for some discussion on the issue.
     
  10. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    The ones that are causing problems are the Wraiths (different sorts. Apparations etc). I have problem if there is only one also but at least then it is doable, yet slow...

    Yea, we are both lvl 77 so I guess we will hit the Pits or the Acient Tunnels. That is also lvl 85, right? Maybe in some time I will do it /p8 to get extra points :)
     
  11. a black kid

    a black kid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    my summoner has never had a problem with physical immunes... even with only around 10 skellies (and ZERO mages) i can kill physical immunes. the ONLY ones that give slight problem are the stone skin phys immunes. and even then, if you can manage to kill one (or get a different monster and kill it near them) just use corpse explosion... as it uses 50% physical, and 50% fire damage, easily kills physical immunes.
     
  12. minuses

    minuses Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    What you can do is use amp it breaks most immunes. Another suggestions is to revive vampires they cast meteors. Stacked meteors rule about anything even bosses.
     
  13. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Like what has been already said...amp typically removes PI from most monsters...otherwise get some of those mages that some people proclaim are useless and stick their nose up in the air about because they feel mages are beneath them...and see how easy the PI's die then.

    HoS
     
  14. queenEm

    queenEm Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Yeah... I kind of know what SHOULD work, the problem is that is doesn't. I made some leveling runs yesterday and found some better gear for my merc and me so in a day or two I'll make another go at it, using revives.
     
  15. Foolishpleazure

    Foolishpleazure Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    If you wanna break PI's the best thing to use it Decrepify (not Amp)....it works like a charm.
     
  16. roxideskye

    roxideskye Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    I always thought that Decrep only takes half of what Amp takes off of monster defense, I suppose the weakening and slowing would give your horde a fighting chance however… I myself would throw a bevvy of mages into the mix though so they can get in each others way and clog up doorways and what not… always fun!
     
  17. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    No. Amp gives -100% while Decrep give -50% physical resist. Against immunities that becomes -20% and -10% respectively. Breaking an immunity is best done via Amp.



     
  18. Meanstreak

    Meanstreak Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Guys, how are you not getting him?

    The man is saying that Amp will indeed remove immunities, but that even then he can only kill when his summons all attack one target. While he is doing this, the other minions, also Amp'd but not being attacked, tear apart his army before the first one falls on which to use CE.

    There are THREE ways you can go about fixing this:
    ----------------------------------------
    1. Change your might merc to a Holy Freeze merc (Act 2 Defensive in Nightmare)

    This will give you a very nice tank of elemental damage, as well as more crowd control. There are too many factors to consider which will work best, but if you use this, try these strategies in this order:

    - Use the HF merc as your main PI killer, casting Lower Resist on the PI and let his cold damage kill them off one by one.

    - Use the HF merc as supplementary damage and crowd control while continuing to use Amp on the PI's, but using the slow from HF to allow the skeletons time to kill the PI

    - Use the HF merc as supplementary damage, while casting Decrepify to double-slow enemies. This will make them attack roughly 25% as much as usual with 50% less damage, allowing your merc plenty of time to kill them.
    ----------------------------------------
    2. Get better at herding monsters, using decrepify on the group as a whole to slow them down, then Amp Damage on the one your sekels are targeting the most.

    This will take some serious spell maneuvering. This is the quickest way to fix the problem as it is just a change in strategy, not merc/skills/weapons, but you have to realize there will be many situations where this isn't possible because of the proximity of the rest of the creatures to your target.
    ----------------------------------------
    3. Change your Might merc to a Defiance merc (Act 2 Combat in Normal/Hell)

    This will turn your merc and your skeletons into quite the army of tanks. The huge boost in defense should make them take a considerably smaller amount of damage, allowing for longer life. Of course, this all depends if the balance of defense/damage works, because if your skeletons live exactly twice as long, but do exactly half as much damage, the result will remain the same.
    ----------------------------------------

    One of those three should work well. Reviving minions is a decent suggestion, however, even the most powerful elemental monsters in the game (Burning Souls, Blood Lords, Venom Lords, etc) have exceptionally low damage outputs even when combined with a high level of skeleton mastery and ~50% lower resist.
     
  19. tetracycloide

    tetracycloide Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Other utility curses you should try before decrep or buying a new holy freeze merc:

    Dim Vision
    Attract
    Confuse
    Terror

    Terror followed by Dim Vision can effectively lock up a target some distance away from the main group and makes it really easy to split up large groups. Wraiths are a pain, they stack up on top of each other, but I think you'll find that if you can stack your skeletons on one or two of them while the rest are locked down they shouldn't be a problem.
     
  20. Mikey Two Guns

    Mikey Two Guns Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Physical immunes - how to deal in hell?

    Yep, I can confirm this. This works except I did not need Dim Vision (would of helped a lot, I admit). When I was traversing the Tower Cellar with my last skelemancer on /players 8, I found Wraith boss packs to be nearly impossible especially when the boss had Stone Skin. I used Terror to scare away the minions, and my army was able to defeat the boss once I cast Lower Resist on him. Mages did the work despite not being anywhere close to maxed out.

    Not really necessary if you plan the build right. Skelemancers have little to no need for a crowd control aura; they already have the best crowd control capabilities in the game because of their skeletons and curses. And they already have a nice source of elemental damage if you are using Skeleton Mages and Lower Resist when you need it. And once you get Infinity...well...you get the point.

    Go with the Might merc all the way.

    To be more clear you should be casting Amp first then Decrepify on the rest of the mob. This is because of the difference in cast radius at higher skill levels due to +skills from equipment.

    Also, the monster left Amped should not be the one your skeletons are targeting the most. Instead, it should be the one your merc is targeting. He is the best DPS in the army assuming he is equipped properly. Teleportation items will allow you to position him where you want.

    This tactic is good for some of the deadliest mobs in the game, but for the tough Stone Skin PIs tetracycloide's suggestion works pretty well. It is also worth mentioning that casting the Clay Golem behind enemy mobs, preferably within range of bosses, can do wonders for your army's performance.

    This probably would not provide much benefit. I am not sure about the real defense values of the skeletons because the Necro pet calculator does not provide defense calculations. However, I would bet my money that it would not aid the skeletons much anyways. Besides, the Defiance aura would only provide benefit against enemies that require Attack Rating to land their attacks. The Might aura benefits your merc and skeleton warriors against all enemies except for the few unbreakable PIs.


     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010

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