Physical Damage WW Sin with 65% fcr

'22'Souljah

Diabloii.Net Member
Physical Damage WW Sin with 65% fcr

does you guys think this would work
a ww sin using:
claw 1: chaos runic talon w/ +3 venom
claw 2: chaos suwayyah w/ +3 venom
armor: fortitude
gloves: trangs
belt: arachnids
ring 1: raven frost
ring 2: melee ring
ammy: highlords
boot: resist boots

skills:
max venom (essintial for every ww sin even a physical based one)
claw mastery (also another requirement of a ww sin)
12 into weapon blokc (60% blokc in melee mode)
16 into fade (max dr)
1 into shadow master (another basic need)
1 into dragon claw (useful sometimes)
1 into wof and LS (for stunlokcing)
1 into blade fury (for style)
max mind blast (i like this skill and the 65% fcr would be useless if i had crap level mind blast)

then for charms 10 shadow gcs, 9 x ar/life small charms, and annihilus
i also have a question how does ias for traps using dual claw work?
does it apply with the average speed of both claws or is it just the primary claw? someone who knows their sin stuff please answer this question ASAP
 

RetroStar

Diabloii.Net Member
Speederländer said:
You'll have slow trapping I believe with that combo.

What helm are you using?
I don't think his trap laying speed is gonna play a big difference as he is only using it for stunlocking.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
RetroStar said:
I don't think his trap laying speed is gonna play a big difference as he is only using it for stunlocking.
Trap laying speed can be a critical factor, most especially for proper stunlocking.
 

'22'Souljah

Diabloii.Net Member
Speederländer said:
You'll have slow trapping I believe with that combo.

What helm are you using?
ah i forgot to post helm it's going to be a ber'd shako
i redicded on items it's now going to be
claw 1: chaos runic talon w/ +3 venom and +1 dflight
claw 2: cruel scissors suwayyah of evisceration w/ 2 x 40/15ias jewels
armor: fortitude
helm: ber'd shako
gloves: trangs
belt: arachnids
ring 1: raven frost
ring 2: melee ring
ammy: highlords
boot: resist boots


davie. said:
Whats the point of this? Barbs are gonna have better phys than you...
i'm trying to see if using a decent amount of fcr on a sin without teleport will be effective vs casters
i'd also like to see is there any difference if i play a ww sin that has extra physical damage but less poison
i'm just bored and one sin isn't enough for me so bored i'm making a sin that doesn't use enigma
lastly if this is really crappy i'll have some stuff in the stash to transform into a typical boring bramble ww sin -_-
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Your physical damage is still going to be low unless you get a nice eth/repair or eth glitched claw. Even then it will still be low, I'm quite sure that Fury/Enigma setup does more physical than your Scissors Suwayyah/Fortitude if you consider OW physical. Plus you get teleport.

I have a 290-350 30ias +1 DFlight warfist and I never use it even in duels when I'm not going to be stunlocking. I've found Fury to be better in every situation.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Zangeif said:
Your physical damage is still going to be low unless you get a nice eth/repair or eth glitched claw. Even then it will still be low, I'm quite sure that Fury/Enigma setup does more physical than your Scissors Suwayyah/Fortitude if you consider OW physical. Plus you get teleport.

I have a 290-350 30ias +1 DFlight warfist and I never use it even in duels when I'm not going to be stunlocking. I've found Fury to be better in every situation.
That warfist must wreak havoc with your attack and trap speeds.
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Not attack speed, -20 hits last ww breakpoint.

It's from my old sin before people realized that Ghosts > Bramble sins. Then I used to use it against melee on my Ghost when you don't need trap laying speed to duel, but I still like fury better now.
 

ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, mostly MB and Teleport.

I don't know if this is correct, but I remember reading on jRichard's page that the WSMs for WW use both claws, just like the normal assassin skills. If that is the case, you can use the southpaw effect with a Runic/Warfist to get a very fast attack. It might take some testing to verify that before people start depending on it, but it should work.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
ilkori said:
Yeah, mostly MB and Teleport.

I don't know if this is correct, but I remember reading on jRichard's page that the WSMs for WW use both claws, just like the normal assassin skills. If that is the case, you can use the southpaw effect with a Runic/Warfist to get a very fast attack. It might take some testing to verify that before people start depending on it, but it should work.
That effect resets after you do a weapons switch meaning you have to re-equip your claws.
 

ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
Speederländer said:
That effect resets after you do a weapons switch meaning you have to re-equip your claws.
True, but it takes so little time to do this that I no longer think about it. It just happens, and sometimes I do it a second time because I don't even remember doing the first one! :grrr:
Besides, how else can you get a -50 WSM for trap laying?

Zangeif said:
WW checks each claw separately to see which bp it hits.
True for the IAS, but I did a little looking around to see what I could find. According to jRichard's page, this is the result:
JRichard said:
WhirlWind works according to rules all its own. First, it doesn't use the same formula for EIAS that all other attacks do. With WhirlWind, only your WSM and IAS on your weapon matter. If you are dual wielding, only your WSM and the IAS on your primary weapon matters. The weapon IAS doesn't go through the diminishing returns formula that other attacks use. Skill_IAS also will not affect your WhirlWind speed. That leaves us with this equation:

EIAS = Weapon_IAS - WSM

Source
So, it looks like one fast claw on primary will give you all the speed you need, then you can pack a punch with another claw.

My personal favorite would be a Cruel, Fools, and Mechanic's Ethereal Warfist of Transcendence, the Bear, and Fast Repair socketed with one Eth and one Um... or two Ums, I can't decide. Hold my Enchant, Shadow Charms, and godly resist, fcr, life, mana, AR/lvl Circlet with +2 sin skills and I'm set. Now if only I could find that stuff...
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Trust me, it checks on each claw separately. Each claw needs to hit -13 (-15 since you can't hit -13) in order to hit last wwbp. I don't know how that rumor got started a long time ago about only primary wias effecting your hit checks for ww, but it's wrong.

If you want to read an in depth description of ww mechanics read this:

http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/whirl/

The only difference is that assassin 4 frame wwbp is -13 instead of -34.
 

ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
I would like to seem some way of checking (or a thread with this discussion already done) besides "trust me." I am aware of how the Barbarian whirlwind works, and I have a very difficult time disagreeing with jRichard's info. That means the "safe bet" is to follow your route. If, on the other hand, it works differently, then that could mean huge perks for Ghosts.

Actually, that discussion isn't half as technical as the one we had a few months ago about the mechanics that went between the Barb forum and here.
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah I remember that discussion.

I don't test this stuff myself, but I remember that we determined in that discussion that assassin and barb ww mechanics work exactly the same. There's a reason every barb uses botd/beat zerkers instead of botd zerker/beast ettin. I doubt every top barb is mistaken about the ww bps.

That's the way I look at it, sorry I don't have any technical proof though. Feel free to ask rikstaker though he seems to like testing that stuff :)
 
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