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Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Jason Maher, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    My High School's motto, in case anyone is wondering. Latin for "I go forward, I take what comes, I finish my tasks", in case anyone is still wondering. Murwillumbah High School in northern New South Wales, Australia, on the offbeat chance anyone could care less. School colours Navy Blue and White - ok, now I've gone too far.

    For the first time ever, I am actually seeing some relevance for that motto. You see, I have a habit of going backward, avoiding what comes, and never finishing anything I start. This has applied to my Diablo II play as much as anything. I have started a large number of characters, even progressed to hell with a few, but as of yet, not a single solitary Matriarch or Patriarch, let alone a Guardian (I'm usually too big of a wuss to play HC).

    So for those of you (probably 1 of you) who are still reading, I am starting a new DII task: 7 SC characters, one from each class, and I solemnly vow that I will take each and every one of them to the end of Hell, even if that means 6000 deaths in the process. Thus far I'm proceeding well, with 7 lovely new characters standing around in the Rogues' camp waiting for me to get off my slovenly behind and do something with them.

    I have yet to decide exactly what build I will be using for each of them, save that the Zon will be a MA Bowazon (my pet build, for some reason not even I comprehend) with 20 points in MA and the rest in the passive tree. The Necro will be a Summoner using Amp as a 1-point wonder (and possibly CE). I haven't decided which Golem to max, Clay, Iron, or Fire. I did toy with the idea of a pure-Curse Necro (not sure what the build name is). The rest I would appreciate any advice, though I'll probably do a WW Barb and a Hammerdin, simply because I've never played either build. Thinking of doing a tri-elemental Sorc. Not sure which way to jump with the Druid, and I've never play a Sin, so I'd particularly appreciate advice on this one.

    I've started a new ATMA stash for these new characters, who will be sharing their spoils with each other, but not with any existing characters. A question at this point: would it be considered cheesy to switch my best charms to whichever character I'm currently playing?

    Now, for the progress (ha!) table:
    Code:
    [FONT=Courier New]
    Class           Name      Lvl   Location                Build
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]
    Amazon          Amanda      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         MA Bowazon
    Assassin        Astra       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Barbarian       Baird       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Druid           Draco       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Necromancer     Nero        1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Summoner
    Paladin         Padric      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Sorceress       Sophia      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    [/FONT]
     
  2. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    I think it's fine to switch items/charms between characters. That's the point of an ATMA stash afterall. Whatever you find with one character should be able to be used by your other characters.

    If you find a Windforce with a sorc, shouldn't you be allowed to use it on a zon? Or even War Travelers, which would be used by multiple classes? I feel the same way about charms. If a charm benefits multiple characters, they should all be able to use it. You found the stuff, so use it on whichever of your characters you want.

    Heck, I just muled all of my FRW SC's onto my sorc LK runner, even though my zon was currently using most of them.



     
  3. waflob

    waflob IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    just a thought, but this sounds very much as if you might like to join Wolron's Heptad tournament - the similarities are there.

    Good luck anyway, and please keep up informed of your progress.

    DelBoy
     
  4. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    ... interesting school, I wish mine wasn't ghetto and had uniforms and such. :grin:

    I won't mention anything about the MA 'Zon since you mentionned it was your pet build in your intro post... but definately a no-no on an all-Curses Necro (Mojomancer). It's not a fun build. You'll never finish Normal because you'll be so bored. Your daughter will be 18 and giving you grey hairs before a Mojomancer makes it to Hell. I ended up converting mine into a Meleemancer. Tri-Element sounds fun. Druids... either go Wind if you can gather a surplus of +Skills items, or Fury if you can get a Ribcracker. I am noob with 'Sins, but I'm currently playing a Phoenix Striker at the moment. Seems fun.


    Good luck with the characters! :thumbsup:
     
  5. Cupcakesnbeer

    Cupcakesnbeer IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    I agree with waflob. Have a read through Wolron's Heptad Team tourny. Involves a 'few' restrictions but you may find it interesting. If you don't like hardcore then play softcore and just end your score after your first death. You can always continue with your characters after...

    Before I joined the tourny I had only ever played a Druid and Barbarian on softcore. It has been a very steep learning curve for me but has been great fun (as fun as high stress levels and heart rates can be :laugh:).

    It's worth considering.......Cheers
     
  6. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    A quick update - started on my Zon. Just rescued the old fogey who knows everything but never offers to lift a finger to help. Almost forgot about Coldcrow - which is probably subconcious conditioning. Next to Fangskin she is my most hated monster. Found a nice starting wand for my Necro - +1 to Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, and Amplify Damage. Perfect for my intended build.

    Code:
    [FONT=Courier New]
    Class           Name      Lvl   Progress                Build
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]
    Amazon          Amanda     14   Cain rescued            MA Bowazon
    Assassin        Astra       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Barbarian       Baird       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Druid           Draco       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Necromancer     Nero        1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Summoner
    Paladin         Padric      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Sorceress       Sophia      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    [/FONT]
     
  7. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Code:
    [FONT=Courier New]
    Class           Name      Lvl   Progress                Build
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]
    Amazon          Amanda     17   Countess killed         MA Bowazon
    Assassin        Astra       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Barbarian       Baird       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Druid           Draco       1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Necromancer     Nero        6   Cold Plains             Summoner
    Paladin         Padric      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Undecided
    Sorceress       Sophia      1   A1 - Rogue Camp         Tri-elementalist (Lightning, FB, IB)
    [/FONT]
    After being distracted by Wolron's sadistic Heptad tournament, I took advantage of the frustration of losing a character in that tournament to jump back to my SC single player project. I've played a MA Zon that many times it was natural I'd start off with Amanda. While I realise it is a weak build, I love being able to spam a free skill with no ammo required, and > +20 damage isn't as crappy as it looks with a good ED% bow, especially when 20-odd % of that (total) damage is converted to magic damage. I've got one to the end of A2 Hell before, which is as far as I've gone with any character. It is a very easy build to play, cast a decoy and a valk (both maxed), and sit back and shoot. Works with any merc.

    I've also started my Necro, a summoner. I haven't fully decided which summons to max, but it will probably be maxed skellis and mages with support from a golem and a Revive or two. I'm leaning towards Clay Golem for the slow ability and not needing to find a casting item.

    I'm definitely going for a Tri-elementalist for my sorc, basing her on my Heptad character, just without the annoying restrictions. In essence, her 3 main skills will be Fireball, Lightning, and Ice Blast (or maybe Glacial Spike). I realise this is unusual, but I like the idea of pick an element then point and shoot. I was almost crazy enough to try Ice Bolt / Fire Bolt / Charged Bolt, but I'll leave that for my Lazy Apprentice tournament when I decide to start it. I now have to nut out the best balance of skill, synergy, and mastery investment. Obviously warmth and teleport will be their usual 1-point wonder selves.

    For my Assassin, I'm thinking of going for a Phoenix Strike based Martial Artist, probably a dual-claw wielder, which will bring in Dragon Claw, Weapon Block, and Claw Mastery as essential skills, and of course Shadow Master. Don't think I'll have enough points left to worry about Traps. Again this is a variant on my Heptad character with restrictions removed.

    I was going to make a cookie-cutter Hammerdin, but since I'm doing that in the Heptad Tournament, I thought I might go for an ultra-offensive Paladin, basically combining whichever Combat Skills and Offensive Aura will be the most damaging. Something tells me I might be hiring a Might mercenary for this guy. As they say in the classics, the best defense is a good offense (which for some reason my twisted mind interprets as "the best way to win is to offend as many other people as possible as often and as much as possible":evil:).

    I still haven't decided on my Druid or Barb builds, but I thought I might try something fun like a Zerker or a Singer for the Barb. Druid will be either a combination Shape-Shifter / Summoner (probably Werewolf / Dire Wolves as I've done Werebear / Grizzly before) or I might try a Wind Druid for a change of scenery (I've always had a morbid fascination with twisters, probably because I live in a country that doesn't see all that many of them).

    With all that on the table, let me ask a few questions to those more knowledgeable:

    1) Is my suggested Sorc build viable?
    2) Does a true Singer use a merc?
    3) How does a Singer or a Wind Druid handle PIs (or a physical damage focussed Paladin for that matter)?
    4) Is ignoring Traps a good idea for a Sin?
    5) Is a pure Shadowsin viable?
    6) Werewolf or Werebear? Wolves or Grizzly?

    Playing 14 characters (was 15 - damned LE Fangskin!) simultaneously, the extra one being a totally unviable Ravens and Poison Creeper based Druid that I'm seeing how far I can take, is a stack of fun that I recommend to anyone:thumbsup:. To think I'm also entering Merlin's Swashbuckler tournament as well... this is what 12 months leave from full-time study will do to you.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    1) Everything is viable in SC, it's just going to take forever. Tri-elementalists are pretty craptacular in 1.1x, but still thoroughly mattable. The fact that you've picked synergy-dependent skills means your damage is going to be even more craptacular than the average tri-elementalist. Do-able, but probably won't be much fun.

    2) Unless they're specifically trying not to use a merc, yes. There's nothing about the singer build that says "no merc". I recommend HF or prayer with insight.

    3) Decrep from reapers would be gg, ctc amp from something shopped if untwinked. wind dr00ds have some cold damage at their disposal, too.

    4) If it's a sin that doesn't use traps, yes. I have more than a few that don't use any traps whatsoever, though a point in DS is quite handy if you've got them to spare.

    5) Yes, everything is viable. A shadowsin is probably going to be a good bit easier than a tri-elementalist using synergy-dependent skills.

    6) Both are good, my personal preference is maul/shockwave werebear. Wolves/grizzly is situation-dependent. At times where you're only after killing speed, wolves. At times when things are remotely dangerous or you're having to recast wolves too much, grizzlies. For the most part I recommend against putting more than one point in either barring a summoning build, but if you find your grizzly dies often when you need him to tank, boosting him a bit won't hurt that much.

    -CG
     
  9. ahcw

    ahcw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Well I had a few things to say here but CG pretty much said them all. Oh well I'll say them anyways.

    1. I've never played a tri elementalist so I can't say from personal experience. I think giving yourself FO will help greatly, but you'll probably end up over using that so it's up to you.

    2. I don't see why they wouldn't. Be forewarned though than an untwinked (or in this case "twinked" from your other 6 chars which isn't much better) pure singer won't exactly be the fastest killer. It's safe since everything will be stunned, I just hope it doesn't get to boring trying to kill stuff :p.

    3. Well wind druids have hurricane help, but without Reaper's you will probably get a few headaches from time to time. Like CG said you can try to find something with ctc amp for your merc and leave it on your wpn switch or something and give it to him when needed. Otherwise use your warcry abilities to seperate the PI's and try to park them if it gets to brutal. The druid will most likely be fine because of hurricane.

    4. Any asn can survive without traps so yes. I would highly recommend getting Death Sentry for the CE though. MA sins are a blast to play so good choice with the Phoenix Striker :).

    5. Well after reading up on heska's (sp?) sin tourny I would say yes. It will be slow going but it is possible. I'd still go MA though.

    6. Well I've always been a Werebear fan so I'd say that, but you already said that you've had one before and wanted something new. Fury wolves are a blast, especially if you can get a Ribcracker or Steeldriver..or some IK pieces :). As far as summons I usually use the Grizzly because he's a little meatier and...well I dunno I just always thought the wolves died to easily unless you invested heavily into being a Summoner.
     
  10. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Ok, I'm either going to play a Zealot (speed) or a Charger (max damage), using Fanatacism as my main Aura (more damage at higher levels than Concentration, plus IAS), and utilising Holy Shield, plus Vengeance for the pesky PIs. Mind you, an Avenger using Conviction as the main aura does look fun too. For the Barb, I simply cannot decide between a Zerker or a Singer - both look like stacks of fun. I might end up making it an 8-man team so I can play both. Actually, while I'm at it, make it 10-man (/woman) so I can play a LF Zon (never played a Javazon before), 11 so I can play a Weather Girl (Sorc using Blizzard, Meteor, and Thunderstorm), and maybe 13 so I can play all 3 Paladin builds mentioned. Could even add in a Dentist and a Poisonmancer for variety.
     
  11. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    If you want to use holy shield, I recommend a zealot over a charger. Charger (IMO) is best with a big two-handed hurty-stick, plus there's a bug where if your HS wears off while charging, charge doesn't work until you s&e. Plus, charge isn't particularly IAS-dependent, so while fanaticism isn't exactly the worst option, there's better things (might, for example, synergizes charge).

    Zerker is a lot easier on a budget, since singer isn't exactly a quick killer even with uber equipment (though, as has been mentioned, everything will be stunned so it's relatively safe).
     
  12. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    While my computer was fried for a week (dead power supply, now running half-baked on a PS ripped from another old pc), I went and learned how to count (if you read my last post, I went straight from 8 to 10 in tallying up prospective builds). I've also in the meantime decided to turn this from a 7-character project into a semi-complete 1.11b restart. I deleted all my old non-HC characters and stashes, and am starting afresh with my 7 plus a few extras. Basically, I'm planning on playing every build I've always wanted to play, and muling between the lot of them. At the moment, the characters planned are:

    MA Bowazon
    Pure Bowazon (Immolation Arrow, Freezing Arrow, and Strafe, no Valk, only passives)
    GA/Strafezon
    LF/PJ Javazon

    Dual Clawsin (Phoenix Strike, Dragon Claw, Weapon Block, Claw Mastery, Shadow Master as main skills)
    Pure Shadowsin

    Singer Barb (with Zerk as a 1-point PI buster)
    Zerker
    WW Barb
    Concentration Barb

    Wind Druid
    Werewolf
    Werebear
    Pure Summoner

    Fishymancer (Skeles + Mages + Clay + Revives + 1-point Amp)
    Dentist
    Mojomancer

    Cheesydin
    Zealot
    Charger
    Avenger
    Smiter

    Tri-elemental Spammer (Fireball, Lightning, Ice Blast)
    Boltress (maxed Charged Bolt, merc + spammed firebolts or icebolts for LIs)
    CL+FO Sorc (one of my old characters revisited)

    That's 25 characters unless something else takes my fancy (like a single tree Sorc). Hopefully they should be able to dig up some nice stuff for each other along the way.

    A couple of questions:

    1) Am I mad for even considering a no-Valk Zon?
    2) Is the 1-second delay on Immolation Arrow painful enough to go for the spammable Exploding Arrow instead? Similar question re freeze length for Freezing Arrow vs Ice Arrow.
    3) Glacial Spike vs Ice Blast? Chain Lightning vs Lightning? (I prefer the second option in each case on a style basis, but am I being mad?)
    4) Which aura works best with each Paladin build?

    I don't think I'll bore people with updates on 25 characters, but look for a thread announcing 25 Mats + Pats at some point in the future.
     
  13. waflob

    waflob IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    possibly - I think I'd rather have no merc than no valk.

    I think mana problems will be more of a nuisance. Also, with immo arrow, make sure you've got no knockback - kinda defeats the point a bit ...

    No ideas - sorry

    Different people will have different thoughts, but here are mine:-

    Cheesydin
    - can't remember the name, never played one (kept falling asleep)
    Zealot
    - fana for pure zealot, freeze or shock for elemental zealer
    Charger
    - might
    Avenger
    - conviction
    Smiter
    - fana? never played one.

    What, you're not doing this HardCore? Tut, tut ...

    Sounds like quite a project - don't forget to go out for fresh air every now and then :)

    DelBoy



     
  14. Atil

    Atil IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    1) I never used a Valk with my Amazon and didn't suffer because of it.

    2) The first build of her was a Freezing Arrow/Immolation Arrow theme and I hated it, Immolation's timer was frustratingly slow for me. I rebuilt her as a Vamp using FA with Strafe as a back-up and found her one of the most fun characters to play.



     
  15. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Never mind hardcore, my aim is to finish the game, and it just so happened that my indecisiveness led me to do a clean start.

    By the way, Cheesydin = Hammerdin. And the best aura is the only one that works with BH (at 50% efficiency) - Concentrate. It was the others I was uncertain about.

    I think I'll just stick with my original plan for the Sorc - on style grounds, I wanted to play a Sorc who did nothing other than fire missiles - meets my idea of what an attacking spellcaster really should be. The main attack will be Ice Blast (20 points + 20 in Ice Bolt for the 12% damage synergy) for the added benefit of freezing and getting rid of things that can be resurrected, with Fireball and Lightning as support against Cold Immunes (both in case of Cold/Fire or Cold/Lightning combo immunes).
     
  16. water_moon

    water_moon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    With my palies I tend to like cleansing too as a nice back up when you're running all over, (it's prayer with out the mana drain) and redemption with reviver types and in A4 (deny the spitters of ammo!)

    GL with the computer issues...
     
  17. Merlin The Wizzard

    Merlin The Wizzard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Yeah Jason I second that. GL with the computer issues. And when is ur wife going to play diablo? :p

    As for your builds (SC? Pfeh. I never play SC anymore. I hardly ever see hell difficulty either. These things are probably causally related. Further investigation (Read: More pointless HC deaths) needed)

    Why not a summoner/lycanthrope hybrid in there? Those should give interesting builds...
    Is one of those lyc builds going to be a fireclaws build?

    I heard singer barbs are QUITE item dependant. Perhaps one of the builds you should start a tad later, when you have amassed some solid barb +skill equip?

    I'd steer clear from the Conc barb, unless you REALLY want to test your patience. Why not a thrower barb, or a frenzier? Both are viable and probably more fun builds.

    As for Valk/no valk, it's anybody's choice... You might go Decoy instead of valk for one build too, just to see how it goes. Personally, she is my favorite summonable creature. I mean... she glows. How cool is that? :p

    And if I may make a necromancer suggestion? A poisonmancer. those can be seriously fun!
     
  18. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    My wife did start a character after signing up to this forum, but she hasn't played it in ages. I was planning on doing a hybrid for one of my were-form characters, probably the Werebear because that's what one of my old characters was. For the other I'll concentrate on the shape shifting skills, maybe employing Raven, Poison Creeper, a Spirit, and a 1-point wonder Grizzly.

    The no Valk idea is partly a style concern, and partly wanting to use the points for elemental bow skill synergies instead.

    As for the Poisonmancer, add him to the list. One thing I wanted to do was make a poison-based character, which can only be a Necro, Javazon, or Werewolf (Rabies + Poison Creeper).
     
  19. Merlin The Wizzard

    Merlin The Wizzard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    You forget an assassin using the venom skill....
     
  20. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Pergo, Perago, Periclitor

    Nope. Lots of people do it, primarily to avoid the bug with Dodge/Avoid coupled with uninterruptible attacks (Strafe, Fend), but sometimes to avoid plain dodge lock or even for style.
    The spell timer on IA is annoying as hell, and is a deal-breaker for that skill in my opinion. Grab a v1.09 Raven Claw (fires slvl 30 Exploding Arrows), max Fire Arrow for the synergy, and use that for CIs. It'll be kinda slow going, though I expect it should get the job done.

    As far as Freezing Arrow vs Ice Arrow, any gear-based cold damage you have will stack with the cold splash damage from FA, including cold durations. This means every cold damage small charm will add a second to your freeze duration (two seconds if it has both a cold damage prefix and a suffix). Max FA, max Cold Arrow for the damage synergy, do not put more than a single hard point into Ice Arrow as you will never use it after you get FA, and stack cold damage SCs and any incidental cold damage from gear (Raven Frost, Vampire Gaze, etc). Once you get FA, you'll just tear through everything until you get to Hell, and meet cold immunes, so be sure to have a backup. Relying solely on the merc is probably a poor choice, as many CIs are quick and nasty, and will mob your merc in short order (CI dark rogues spring to mind, as well as thrashers in Act III). If, however, you're using a ranged merc, you can give her a Harmony bow and use Valk/Decoy to hold the monsters in place. Of course, this begs the question about why you wouldn't just use such a bow yourself. Coupled with Strafe or Magic Arrow, it will give you a backup attack viable for end-game play.

    Special mention must be made of the Eye of Etlich. The cold duration on this is potentially 10 seconds (you can't see in game, but ATMA will reveal the truth), meaning you can have huge cold durations. With cold SCs, Eye of Etlich, Frostburns (FA loves mana), and a Raven Frost or two, stuff will just sit there frozen. Except for CIs and 'cannot be frozen' baddies, nothing will pose a threat to you.

    I prefer Glacial Spike because it looks cooler, and it splashes. The freeze time is a lot less that IB though, but as long as you've got the mana to spam it, it's not really an issue. You can keep entire mobs pinned in place. I've considered building a spammer build like you, but I'd probably go for GS, FBall (better damage than FBolt, and it splashes), and maybe Charged Bolt, but I'm not sure it would be very effective in Hell. You might want to go for two partially-synergized elemental attacks, with a hard point in each mastery, and then later pump the masteries or synergies if you reach really high levels.
    For cheesydin, Concentration. For a smiter or zealot, Fanaticism is the usual one, though some zealots use Conviction, as it effectively makes any weapon an 'ignore target defense' weapon that works against bosses, and handily boosts any elemental damage you or your party members dish out. Holy Freeze and Holy Shock are also solid zealot choices, and you could even go with both, trading raw damage for versatility. The advantage here is that the elemental damage is completely independent of your weapon, so your weapon requirements are less stringent. A very low damage weapon makes a great solution to Iron Maiden issues, too. For an avenger or charger, Conviction is probably your best bet. The reasons it's best for an avenger should be obvious- big elemental damage plus big penalties to enemies' elemental resists is a big winner. For Charge, the reasons are more because a) it's very party-friendly, b) the defense-lowering aspect means you will seldom miss, and c) Charge (especially a fully-synergized one) already offers such huge skill ED that any other off-weapon ED (skill or gear based) makes a proportionately small overall difference in damage. You may also opt to save the skill points and run Might as your main aura; being that it's a synergy for Charge, you get double the value for each hard point. SSoG has a wonderful guide to Charge on the forums somewhere; I suggest you read that if you plan to make such a build. It covers what I mentioned above, as well as gear and merc selections, and has a lot of great strategies for playing a charger.
     

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