Perfected PvM Hybrid Build... Need Feedback

Perfected PvM Hybrid Build... Need Feedback

Hello!
I started playing Diablo 2 about a year ago and I've been using an Amazon ever since I've started. Heck, the only other classes I've ever even touched were Sorceress and Paladin *shrugs*
So I play online and read forums to try and come up with the perfect PvM build in order to play with.
So i've done some experiments and trials to see which skills that would help me the most in the increasing difficulty of Normal, Nightmare and Hell. Seeing that normal mode is a bit of a cakewalk, I'll mention the least about it. Of course, the first 20-40 levels (depending on when you get to nightmare) could be the most important levels for a build, its quite simple for a hybrid as I will soon explain.
This apparently is my 3rd try and making an effective hybrid, my last two had late game troubles so I took late game NM and Hell into account for this re-vamped version of my build.

I don't think I'll write a huge book on stats and skills for my zon, but I will provide a range and a layout of my plan to clarify any misconceptions.
As for things like MF, Equipment and Mercs, I will spend very little time talking about them because if I didn't, I would be writing a FAQ. Make no mistake, this will not be a FAQ

Attributes?
For attributes, there are two ways of approaching it. You could save up all your attributes and only use them when you think you need them.
For instance, if you need a certain amount of strenght in order to use some of your items, you could just dump a whole bunch of saved points into strength in order to use it.
Or you can alternatively place points into stats as they come. Some people develop a pattern and I find that 2 str, 2 dex and 1 Vit works quite well until you max str and change it to 2 dex and 3 vit.

Approximate Point allocation:
Str -- around 100, 80+ for sure.
Dex -- about 300, if not more.
Vitality -- Varies. Aim for enough to get you to around 500 or 600 life.
Energy -- None. Hybrids don't need extra energy.

Skill Distribution
My skill distribution method is as follows (in no particular order):

Bow tree: [52 points total]
Magic Arrow - 1
Cold Arrow - 20
Ice Arrow - 1
Guided Arrow - 1
Strafe - 8
Multiple Shot - 1
Freezing Arrow - 20

Passive tree: [34 points total]
Inner Sight - 1
Penetrate - 1
Critical Strike - 4
Decoy - 1
Dodge/Avoid/Evade - 2 each.
Slow Missiles - 1
Valkirye - 17
Pierce - 4

Javelin tree: [ 24 points total]
Jab - 1
Poison Jav - 1
Plague Jav - 1
Lightening Bolt - 1
Lightning Fury - 20

As you can see, my distribution method for skills is quite stretched out and thin. When I made this build, I was moving towards a more offensive setup and i decided to focus less on defensive skills such as D/A/E. Seeing that Hybrids inherit the keep away game that is played by Bowazons, I didn't really see the point of placing extra points into them.
I decided to stop Strafe at Level 8 because apparently, that is the capping point for the number of arrows that is fired by your Amazon -- 10. The extra damage percentage that comes from additional skills is nice, but only works with the skill alone, and you have to remember that you will only be using this skill half the time (when you're in bow mode) because you have Freezing Arrow.
The lack in Critical Strike and Pierce can be made up with +skills equipment or perhaps a Buriza, but this is an area that is worth considering because when I went to try and up these percentages, I found myself deducting points from more important skills.

On with the Build
So you get on B-net, and you start your zon (this is v1.10 might I add). Preferably Ladder because they have more stuff When setting up weaponry, try and have your Bow set on one snap, and your Jav on the other, thats essentially how Hybrids work, so I won't go into detail.
I would preferably beg for a rush to Act 5 just so you won't have to drag yourself through all of the acts in order to level. The point of this is to get you into Baal runs earlier so you can get more of the build done with the little time you would want to spend on leveling.

First 30 levels should be used in order to prepare for the skill that every Hybrid has to have -- Lightning Fury. What I plan to do is start saving very early and only place points into prereqs for LF. Since LF takes 20 skill pts to max along with the 3 prereqs you have about 7 points to play with. One point should be put into Jab for sure and Critical Strike. You could start your bow tree or you can put some of some of you Dodge/Avoid/Evade skills but chances are, you won't need them too much because Normal monsters are nutoriously weak. :-D
As soon as you hit 30, go crazy and dump all your points into LF, maxing it out (I think your allowed to dump points like that... but correct me if im wrong) and work to have Act 2 Defensive Mercs near your level in order to get the best out of their auras.
After that, you should have enough killing potential to last you until the later half of Nightmare. Make sure you have a relatively efficient amount of mana leech in order to maintain your attacks and you should be fine.
Spend the early levels after 30 to get your Valkirye started. Try getting her to around Slvl 8 so she can have her upgraded weapon.
Once you've gotten valkirye and decoy up your sleeve in case of emergency, work to max out your Cold Arrow/Freezing Arrow combination in order to get the max damage from your bow tree. You can accomplish this by dumping points into them, but its better to just put points into them as they come simply because it takes too long to save points in mid game and on.
Once you've gotten those two skills maxed, your pretty much free to do whatever you want. You could work to get the goal skill levels for skills like Strafe, D/A/E or even your Valkirye. For your Valk, getting to level 17 earlier is better than later, but not necessary. I would save skills such as strafe or D/A/E for late game because they don't really increase your overall killing ability by enough to make a significant difference.

So there you go. That is basically the blueprint for my Hybrid until level 99 (although a more idealistic level is around 80 simply because 99 will take an eternity ) The thing is, at level 70ish, you should have your skills at 80-90% of your total killing potential. Because good physical damage, Lightning Fury and Freezing Arrow will take are most to all the Monsters in NM/Hell. The Valk is essential to get you out of tighter situation where you cannot risk a head-to-head confrontation with your target (such as act bosses and light enchanted monsters).
Hope this attempt won't fail... feedback is always welcome! Remember, I'm trying to go for killing potential and I don't plan on relying on others in the build because its not the best to rely on others in order to play effectively. This build is designed to be solo effective and less effective for other forms of play.

Thanks for reading my very long post~ Any comments and suggestions are greatly welcomed. Hope this thread helps all amazons, new and experts alike, in their strive to become the strongest amazons on B-net :winner:

 

I also have a hybrid build (Strafe/LF). The main problem with your build (imo) is that you have 2 forms of croud control (LF/FA) when you need only one in reality. LF is far superior to FA in any croud situation (aside from LI's of course). But the occurence of that situation is not frequent enough to rationalize 40 points for CA/FA as well as LF. Also, either max strafe (maximum number of minimum arrows fired) for small groups/singles, or don't invest in it. My build utilizes LF for crouds and a potent strafe (might merc, high crit, cb/ds) for smaller crouds/single targets and any LI's that come around. Physical immunes are easily dealt with via decrep by merc or Atma's if amp is needed. I chose the defensive route (high D/A/E, max Valk). If I were to create a variant of my build I might go the offensive route and max Charged strike.

 

Tips !

I have an slvl 90 Hybridzon, and she just kicks *** in Hell.
I don?t understand why you will spent 40 point in Cold Arrow and Freezing Arrow. My ama has one point in CA and FA, and combined with a Buriza the monsters get killed with no trouble.

I will recommend that you put some point in Guided Arrow (my GA is lvl 17 damage is 557-2250). In my opinion you just need FA to freeze the monsters, and let your bow do the rest. My FA has 125-350 in cold damage, but 485-1950 in physical damage.

Save a lot of points and put them in the passive/magical tree instead, and put more than one point in Dodge. I recommend that you reach around lvl 15 in dodge + skillers, 8 in avoid and 8 in 6-7 in evade.

It?s also a good idea to put more points in Pierce, because it is not difficult to reach 100 % in Pierce. I have Piercing in lvl 8 and combined with the Razortail belt, my piercing is 100 %.

There is also another opportunity, and that is to put some points in Jab. My ama has Jab in lvl 22 and with Titans her damage is 414-898. It is not awesome, but she can hit 5 times/s, and with Critical strike/deadly strike its more than enough in solo games. I can easely Jab Baal in small pieces without drinking any red pots, because I don?t need more than the 6 % life leech from my titans.

When I build my ama, I read a good guide, who recommended that I should invest many points in the passive skills early in the game, and then put points in the offensive skills. I follow the tip, and the result is, that my ama is almost immortal, because the monsters cant hit her.

 

Welcome to the forums! :wave:

I would say as a first draft, this is some useful information. The way you can really improve this "guide" is from considering other people's opinions.

Be sure to wait for some replies with constructive criticism.

-Backdoor Bandit

 

just one point: try a search for strafe on the boards. the reason for 20 slvl is it's single-mob killing ability. you can find the exact formula on here somewhere.

without 20 strafe, you might as well go with 17 GA/3 ms.

 

Very interesting comments and suggestions...
Thinking it over, maybe it is a tiny bit wasteful to place so many points into CA/FA. It also appears that most people do place some more points into D/A/E in order to help reduce the number of times they get hit but when I decided to put so many points into CA/FA i was using it to deal damage as well as help keep the enemy away.
Strafe also seems to be quite a good skill to invest in, but when I make an amazon I keep thinking "elemental damage is what you need" and that it outweighs physical damage because there is no 50% universal resistance to it when you reach hell.
Maybe I just didn't think about having an amazon that has high physical damage and LF when I made this build.

So lets say I didn't focus on CA/FA and only invested 1 point into them. I would have 38 points to play with. What skill should i dump them into? Maybe strafe? Maybe MS? Or would it be good to place them in both?
My friend also has a hybrid and he mentioned that it may be useful to place more points into Penetrate in order to get a higher attack rating, and in his book, higher attack rating = more dead monsters.
D/A/E is useful to have at higher skill levels, but when I invest more points into them I find myself lowering my killing power, and this is less than what I want in my amazon... however, this is still an effective alternative to trying to run away from any 1 hit killing monsters that exist in diablo (darn those Undead Stygian Dolls! Darn them! LoL)

From the feedback im receiving, I'm given the impression that LF/Strafe is a good hybrid type to work on, and that passives will greatly help amazons in general. So could someone give me an exact skill point distribution method so I can see how much I should be focusing on each skill on the skill tabs?
I'm the type that is convinced by numbers, so statistics would impress me the most ^^

Thanks for all the feedback from Red-Dog, flapserdk, Backdoor Bandit and Superhal thusfar, I really appreciate it~

*Edit*: Oh yes, I forgot to mention something. When I made my build, I was really impressed by the high damage that Slvl 20 FA with lv.20 CA did in hell (with or without +skill i don't remember). It ranged at around 1.5k and that was on top of the normal bow damage, so i found CA/FA very attractive at the time. There is no 50% resist in hell to cold (aside from the CIs) so I was quite happy with the turnout at the time :surprise:

 

yea big misconception about strafe capping..every few levels itll throw an extra arrow at each enemy..which means doing more damage to that LI monster

 

i think a guide w/o equipment just doesn't work.
every time you build a character it's usually because you've just found something that really compliments it like a wf or titans for instance.
it should also be specified if you plan on playing untwinked or not.
i feel this character would fare quite well untwinked without using strafe and taking the more magezon type build.
also do you mean an act 2 defensive merc with holy freeze or defiance?
depending on how much you use strafe maybe an offensive merc may work better.
do you have great mana and ar issues with your build?
thats about it. some interesting things to note there though.

 

This post hits my most recent idea right on the head. I'm leaning towards cold arrow / strafe more then lightning fury as i have 2 fury zons and 0 cold arrow zons.

 

I have another suggestion where you could invest some points instead of Bow tree. My slvl 90 Hybridzon has lvl 23 Jab, and with Titans her damage is 434-930. Despite the puny damage I use Jab very often, because it is uninterruptible and very fast. I have 85 % EAS, and that means 5 hit/s, and if you combine fast attack speed with life leech, your ama will almost be immortal.

The other trick is to boost the Jab damage, and therefore I have lvl 12 CS (59 % chance of double damage), and I have a Highlord's Wrath amu:

+35% to Lightning Resist
Adds 1-30 Lightning Damage
20% Increased Attack Speed
+1 to All Skills
+33 % Chance of Deadly Strike per clvl (Slvl 90)
Attacker Takes 15 Lightning Damage

And Gore Riders:

-25% Item Requirements
+15% Chance of Deadly Strike
30% Faster Run/Walk
+15% Chance of Crushing Blow
+10% Chance of Open Wounds
+160-200% Enhanced Defense
+10 Increased Durability
+20 Stamina

With this setup Jab become a efficient killer even in Multiplayer Game, and you will be able to get the good drops when you go melee.

And finally I think you can save some point in Valkyrie. There is no doubt that lvl 17 Valkyrie is a more efficient killer than my lvl 10, but in my opinion, your Valkyrie most important job is to keep you a live by distracting the monsters and take some beating.

I have chosen GA as my primary bow skill (Lvl 16), because I only use it against single targets, especially Bosses.

According to D/A/E I will recommend that you should try to reach around 50 %. Evade is less important.

 

i also have a hibrid but i developed lightning skills
i have 20 charged, lf, power and lightning bolt
on switch i have shael wf and use max guided becouse i dont have 2 wory about AR and pierce
with mf gear on in the pit i kill li imune archers with 2-3 arrows and all non li imune mob including champions and uniques with 1-3 lf
i kill superuniques easly with charged strike (ball dies in 3-5 seconds)
i dont use valkyrie
dont need her she doesnt kill much and i have no problems with staying alive
i have str for gear and keep dex/vit balanced (wf and guided gives me enough damage) i aim for max block rest goes to vitality

 

a couple of points:

I think your skill point allocation is far too thin, using all 110 skill points is about the most unrealistic thing for any build, ppl are only going to play upto 80 for sure, some will go upto 90, and very few will go further, so where would you compromise your skills?

Also regarding skills, i think that to express skills in terms of raw stat points is probably not the best way, especially as you didn't touch on equipment - simply because everyone will use differing gear, and have a different amout of +skills. Imho a better way to express this would be for a % target - for eg 70% + CS.

You can't mass dump skill points into LF - you can put one a level in from lvl 30, but saving points means you can also add 1 into Valk + 1 into Peirce each time you level up. So by ~clvl 55 you can have excellent levels in all 3 skills.

Having always stuck with pure builds (blizz sorc, hammerdin, pure strafer, IK WW barb) i find the need to have 3 main skills slightly wasteful - Cold / Lightning and Physical. You even mention Ladder mainly so a reapers on a Merc removes any PI, as my pure strafer can solo anywhere in an 8 game i really see both L and C attacks as over kill. I know this is a hybrid build, but surely just 2 of the skills is needed - as on the rare occasion a monster spawned CI+PI (if using FA), or LI+PI (if using LF), the reapers would remove the PI so you would still have one attacking option always.

I also have to say that strafe not maxed is not "true strafe", MS seems to operate much better as an unmaxed skill

Again regarding equipment - and i may be a little biased/unkind here, but if you aren't going to mf or pvp then almost any build with good gear will do well in pure pvm settings - i managed to Patriarch my first character who had no good gear, and i followed no guide/build at all (he was a paladin, with 20 zeal & 20 Holy Shock using very poo gear). I even managed to go mf'ing with him in 3 ptopaz helm/4 ptopaz armour (he looks like C3PO).

You didn't touch on merc's at all, and again i think this may be causing you some trouble as your merc is a vital part of any build. Either to complement your attack -for example a HF merc slowing all enemys down so a Hammerdin can get more hammers on target, or to improve your attack - for example a strafer and a might merc, or as a general helpful meat sheild - for example a blizz sorcs defiance merc.
The merc takes some/alot of the strain from the main char, tho hopefully the main char can cope with out the merc if needed.

I suppose it's down to the interpretation of the word "build" but imo build encompasses: merc / skills / stats / equipment etc, basically anything that contributes to building a good char.

 

hmmmmmmmm well:

I have a couple questions and comments, do you play ladder or non, HC or SC, cuz frankly they are different games, very similar but different. Also do you have the ability to get great items or are you going to play with what u have found? Will you rush thru the game or lvl yourself? These matter because zon is somewhat item dependant and if the char is rushed points can be maximized by planning and selecting only the most desirable skills, especially if you are going to make the new best zon, ruiner of monster nations. I think I have one of the best zons around on sc ladder as far as playability in all situations, fun factor and precticality. I always wear at least 200 mf, usually 244, I can carry folks thru hell difficulty. y do i wear mf, because i run many people thru the game and i like to have interestin drop. I think 200+ is plenty mf if you kill lots of monster as i bought nearly my items with items i got or the runes i sold the items for. This char even does very well in open duels, but char dedicated to pvp certainly has advantages....so if u like i can tell u what is did. I play hybrid, bow and jav, and use 5 skills: jab, charge strike, LF, multishot and freeze arrow, if i was to remake i would also have 1 pt guided.

jab has 1 pt
cs max
lf max
FA like 5
multi maybe 10 max cant member and im not at home.

I play with 90 ias in bow, and 55 or 70 ias depending on javs, ias is far less important with lf but does help when bosskillin in cs

I also made this char as my first ladder char so began as java and used power strike to play thru norm. She prolly has like 10-15 other random light skill points that syn lf and cs. The problem with your build to me a that in hell the strongest amazon attacks are in javs, u can hold a shield and bomb lfs, so the light side of zon should be strongest to exploit this. you have just way to many points in bow and unless u are goin to spend the majority of the time as bow (which basically means unless u have a great bow-wf), those points are wasted to me, additionally i havent used this lvl 17 valk people talk about but find it unnecessary, u will most definately want an a2 merc i suggest might variety and after + skill and the passives you have chosen the valk should live at least long enuff to survive the casting delay, i would just rather invest those points into skills your character can use to kill with, your aren't a necro, y make a super strong pet, i can understand for pure bower but with ss (my shield of choice) and max charge strike half the time u should be in there battling. i have the bow to take out light immunes and let my javs rest and replen, freeze guyz that need freezing things like that, or to lvl people in nm, its very easy to protect young chars with multi, in fact its very easy for my zon to play as only bow up thru a3 hell and that is with minimal skills invested in the bow tree, the key to bow success is equip i think, a hybrid zon's best freind is her wf, imo. granted i used up buriza with freezer till i got the wf and then started usin multi much more. so i guess thats about it, o if u want to play hybrid i really think razortail is only option for bow, yes the stats of Tgods are impressive, but so is 100% piercing with lf, freezer or multi. tgod is for pvp and areas with lightinin wisps, specially if u havent found wisp protector yet, took me forever to acquire, thx baal :thumbsup:

I also think anihilus (any stats) is required if you want to make the zon of zonz, the extra resist is godsend in bow. so if you got great gear i can suggest the following, pricey but u will rule:

90 ias bow, for freezer and multi
up eth titan
wf
enigma or chain
highlord, cat eye
gloves, any with 20 ias
shako
ss
rings- ravenfrost and dual leecher
war travelers
razortail
cta if u have it all

merc....people on here had said it tons of times but only choice unless u got doom or another insano merc weapon, i think pure bow could do really well with cresent moon as another cheaper runeword option but best for availability: reaper's toll, many uniques are Phy Immune/ Light Immune so this will get them....i guess if u have max freeze that could substitute but i think decrep and few points freeze better option.

did i mention stats cuz i think u have lots of flexibility here:

the only thing i think u should have is over 100 vit, the rest is all u. dex does blocking and AR for bow, str increase jav dam, your choice really, or play with 200 vit. my jabs max is over 3k off 1 pt (prolly lvl 9 or so), mighted tho....food for thought

o ya get like 500 pd and yer set.

 

It is great to see a few more posts/guides about the hybrid character.

I think it prudent to take advantage of synergies in the javelin skill tree, reading the Lightening Fury Guide is what opened my eyes to alot of damage potential without alot of hard to find equipment. Following prior persons experiences to use Lightening Fury/Charged Strike to level 20 with the +skills. This can spare a few points into the bow skill tree.

One and only one bow skill seemed realistic with the hybrid. I chose strafe to level 20 before +skills. I played way back when a "bow bug" existed and strafe was the only skill used. I am lazy to face my target. I just like the skill.

At Level ** I have the basic skill completed. Valkyrie to 17 before +skills. I approached it this way since I started the character untwinked.

I wondered about stat point distribution. Reading opinions about vitality to 100 minimum is no joke. I have 123 with equipment and would not recommend any lower than 100 and would actually favor 120. My problem is attack rating.

At 358 dex 7500 or so attack rating with 7 or 8 into penetrate does okay. (I was confused with the Lightening skill names and put 4 pts into Lightening Stike instead of Charges Strike. Synergies were not really hurt but I lost 4 pts I wish I had back.) Strafe has that "next arrow" miss thing and with lower attack ratings I seem to shoot alot and hit very little. Not good. I have read numbers of over 11,00 in attack ratings with hit percents in the 90's. At level ** with even going to 95 and dumping the remaining skill points into penetrate, I don't think I will come even near that number. This seems to be a draw back with strafe. Another main arrow skill may "get around" this.

A player friendly build should work with very modest equipment. Having a 400+ MF blizzard-mephy-pindle killing sorc hidden in your back pocket does not count.

Thank you for writing your guide. Your view and experiences on other skill areas I have not yet considered will make my next character even better.

Cheers

 

i use GA so i have no problems with AR
i kill with lf/charged and use GA for single li imune targets
kill archers in the pit in 2-3 arrows with GA
if i meet extra strong extra fast fanatic boss pack of them i just shoot past a corner and i am completly safe

 

AR seems to be a good reason to pick GA over Strafe for a hybrid.

Javazons just don't need high levels of AR.

Has anyone thought of maxing Magic Arrow. It would give you a free shot for no mana, no arrows. With a pretty much unresisted damage, it still has some physical damage too, so you should be able to leech some from it?????

GA probably does allow the best leeching.

 

max guided arrow
max poison and plague javalins...
put 1 point in all the passives and then the remaining points into the 3 dodging skills

boom done hybrid
thnx
stef

 

A question regarding equipment

I'm not very rich! I'm creating my low/medium-budget hybridzon with the following:

enough str for eq
dex loads
vit loads
eng base

I go for max strafe and max LF and use the following eq:

Buri (199% ED) w Shael
Titan & Tiamat or Mosers w 2 pdiam
Stealskull
Waterwalk (best I got)
Laying of Hands
Ring 1: ravefrost
Ring 2/Amu: I only have crap rings and crap amus so maybe +2 ama skills amu

The question is: armor?
Crow caw for IAS or Lionheart for all stats (but with buri and strafe I need IAS, or?)

If Lionheart: which base item is recommended, remembering I'm not very rich!

Update: String of Ears or Razortail?

 

my hybridzon today at lvl 92:

STATS:
STR: 134 (for future WF)
DEX: ~300
VIT: ~90
ENG: base

SKILLS:
20 strafe
20 freezing
20 lightning fury
15 valkyrie
3 multishot
10 cold arrow
and the others in prereqs and pierce

EQUIPMENT:
HELM: perfect Stealskull socketed with perfect topaz
ARMOR: "Wealth" in Archon Plate
WEAPON 1: Mavinas Caster socketed with Shael
WEAPON 2: ethereal perfect Titans Revenge
SHIELD: Tiamat's Rebuke socketed with perfect diamond
GELT: upgraded Goldwrap
GLOVE: Laying of Hands
BOOTS: perfect upgraded War Travelers
AMULET: Highlord's Wrath
RING 1: perfect Bul Kathos Wedding Band
RING 2: perfect Raven Frost

yea i know they're not the best stuff but at least i can honestly say i obtained them all legitimately through Pit, Pindle, and Baal runs and trading. i can pretty much solo 8-player Baal runs but sometimes those Blood Souls can bring my life down to almost death. i have almost no life because most of my incentory space is devoted to 7% magic find small charms. overall, my hybrid does pretty well. i sorta retired her because she pretty much kills everything so i've moved on to messing around with my sorc and necro... in between Final Fantasy 11 breaks of course

 

don't worry man, everyone was poor at once. i recommend Crow Caw. it's a remarkable piece of armor built for amazons. Lionheart is good too, if you can get your hands on the rare runes. for base armor to socket it into, i'd recommend the archon plate. String of Ears has like 8% life leech along with damage and magic damage reduce. Razortail on the other has pierce (which is essential for freezing arrow and lightning fury to kill fast) and a nice bonus to dexterity. i'd personally go for the Razortail, you can get life leech from so many other things. i don't worry much about damage reduce because amazons aren't even supposed to be getting hit. i load my desert warrior offensive merc with damage reduce stuff though.