Patriarch Nimbus - Phoenix Wielding 2h Charger Paladin

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Patriarch Nimbus - Level 82 Charger Paladin
Stats:

Damage: (with 50% DS) 11k-54k, 26k avg.
Crushing Blow: 50%
Attack Rating: 7306
Resists: 75 FR / 42 CR / 78 LR / 42 PR
+19 Fire Absorb, 20+Cold Absorb, +20 Lightning Absorb
Strength: 197
Dexterity: 58
Vitality: 336
Energy: 15
Life: 2110
Skills: (hard points)
Fanaticism - 20
Might - 20
Vigor - 20
Charge - 20
Zeal - 1
Pre-reqs - 1
Blessed Aim - remaining points (for passive AR boost)
Gear:
Amulet: Metalgrid
Helm: Guillaume's (Scintillating Jewel)
Weapon: Phoenix in 1.07 Ethereal Glorious Axe
Armor: Fortitude Superior Great Hauberk
Gloves: Dracul's Grasp
Ring 1: Ravenfrost
Ring 2: Eagle Grip - 3% mana leech, 7% life leech, +16 Str, 15 LR, 13 FR
Belt: Thundergod's Vigor
Boots: Gore Rider
Switch: CTA + Spirit in 45 Res All Gilded Shield

Merc: A1 Cold Arrow Rogue
Helm: Giant Skull "UmUm"
Armor: Treachery Wire Fleece
Weapon: Wrath Great Bow
Crushing Blow: 30%

Finds: Eschuta's Temper, Suicide Branch, Hellforge: Io

I recently just made a Dual Dream Bear Sorceress, and let me tell you, that is a hard act to follow. She was a heck of a character, but my Charger actually rivaled her, coming in at a close second in my list of all-time favorite play-throughs. That said, the Charger build also has some major cons, and I suggest anyone planning on building a PvM charger should read SSoG's excellent guide.

I'll proceed through this write-up in an entirely random way, making new headings as they come to mind.

Bugs:

Because of the charge bugs, I wouldn't ever attempt this build in HC. I will say from the beginning: you will die with this character because of the bugs. I'd rather attach that warning and have some better player pleasantly surprised than to have them go into the build naively. The funny thing is, the character is actually pretty strong, and I went to great lengths to ensure that--big resists, absorb, huge leech, redemption aura, etc. I can't recall a death that was actually entirely my fault, though I died quite a few times due to the freeze bugs.
SSoG sums up a few of the bugs--
Charge Bug #1- At the end of your charge, you'll slow down a bit, and your swing will fall short of the targeted monster.
Charge Bug #2- at the end of your charge, you freeze in place, unable to move, attack, or do anything.
Charge Bug #3- This is the nasty one. Sometimes charge will cease functioning. Nothing you do will make it work again- you will just be unable to charge for the duration of the game.
I never experienced #3 in the entire playthrough, but there are two variants of bug #2. One is where you completely freeze and can't do anything. Another is where you are stuck in place--you can still attack, and even try to run, and the poor guy's legs are moving but he stays still. If you just weapon switch and switch back, you'll unfreeze, but both of these are deadly bugs. I actually find the second one is more deadly, because I see movement from the character (attacks or running in place), so it takes me another second to realize he's actually not moving.

That makes leveling the character a bit of a headache, but he made Patriarch at 82 nonetheless. Once I took a Zen approach to the deaths-from-bugs, I wasn't that frustrated by them.

Weapons:

My endgame weapon was this 399% ED Phoenix axe in a 1.07 Eth Glorious Axe, which I already gushed about in the IFT.
Phoenix.jpg

With over 1k max damage, it hit very, very hard.
-20% deadly strike was also great.
-14% mana steal is hugely helpful for high mana demands of charge. Even when manaburned, a single swing of normal attack completely fills the bulb.
-Level 14 Redemption Aura - great for survivability and mana demands to have this running constantly
-ITD was hugely useful for hitting consistently, since missing with charge is terrible.


The only negative aspect of this runeword is the huge CTC Firestorm. Although it makes Phoenix a problem for most builds, it worked well for Charger, as I explained in the ITF:
Phoenix is a beautiful disaster in every sense of the word as for 99% of builds, the CTC Firestorm makes it unusable. Long story short: no, the CTC Firestorm doesn't mess up gameplay.

I tried it out and I actually couldn't get the CTC to proc DURING the chain for about 10-15 minutes of playing. Part of the problem is that this weapon does so much damage, that many charges are not chains, but 1 hit kills, or just 2 hits before the monster is dead. Still, it seemed like it should proc more. Finally I had the wits about me to go find some PIs that I could bounce a charge off ad infinitum. I did finally get the Firestorm to hit mid charge, and it did cause a momentary jerk in the chain of charge attacks, but it didn't stop the chain, and I probably wouldn't have even noticed it if I hadn't been looking for it. So, it works pretty well for Charge, since Charge isn't a sustained melee attack like Zeal. For Zeal, the attack button is red-ed out quite a bit. Sad, as the shield version of this would be amazing without CTC mod.

Now, as I played through I used the biggest two handers I could find early on, and equipped Insight as soon as I possibly could. Mana is a big deal for the Charger! Now, the main problem here is that I didn't want to put Insight on an A2 merc because A2 mercs don't work so well for this build, as I'll mention in a moment. Self-wielding Insight is great, though. I did it in a polearm because I have scores of those lying around for my mercs, but others have shown me the light: staves are probably better for the Charger, and Archon Staff has quite the damage. It would work quite well for an endgame weapon! It's bonus to AR is HUGE, and the damage is quite good!

One thing I'll mention about Insight: I'd reroll it quite a bit, not ignoring the Critical Strike oskill. I probably used Insight on my mercs for a year before I noticed the oskill, and though it doesn't stack with Deadly Strike (the two roll separately) if you roll the +6 level, that gives you 47% Critical Strike, and a few +skills from gear could push you well into the 50%, which will really boost damage!

Obviously, if you want to run your own aura to help regen (meditation, redemption), that opens up more options for weapon with an A1 merc.

Merc
I almost enjoyed planning my merc as much as the character because the PvM Charger demands such a unique merc. It was quite tempting to do something ridiculous like hire an A2 Might Merc and put Pride on him (if I had the runes!) just to boost my own LCS into the ridiculous range, but the A2 merc just doesn't really work very well with Charge. Really, I think A2 merc makes the character almost unplayable from the standpoint of bouncing around off different monsters. The monsters bunch up around the merc, which is usually a great thing, but then you can't knock them back. Really, having the monsters spread out on the screen works quite well.

Here is a screenie of my merc's gear just because I'm in a screenie mood today:
mercgear.jpg
Just to explain some of the choices-
-Wrath - Found a Ber in LK and I decided to make this. it's a deceptively damaging runeword. No ED, but it is basically a Reaper's Toll in bow form with 30% CTC Decrepify. That, along with crushing blow, magic and elemental damage all make for a merc that can take out PIs quickly. The big damage to undead and demons bonuses offset the lack of ED quite nicely as well. Life tap is also pretty sick for the merc when it triggers. Oh, and how can we forget Cannot be Frozen? That frees up the other slots a bit.
-Treachery - A common choice for mercs, and the IAS & Fade is great.
-Giant Skull - This item provides Knockback, essentially turning the merc into a little charger! She knocks the enemies back, keeping her from danger, and spreading the monsters out for me to pinball off of. Also, it has more Crushing Blow, and throw Ums in the sockets for a big 30 resist all.

The only thing I might change about the merc was to use a Fire Arrow so that enemies corpses don't shatter, thus making my Redemption aura more effective. I thought about it, but didn't ultimately switch because the corpse shattering was infrequent enough that I was still redeeming corpses constantly, keeping mana and life bulbs topped off nicely. It was nice having the monsters so debilitated all the time.

Skills
Might does plenty of damage, but I ultimately settled on Fanaticism as my main aura for the AR boosts, and to speed the merc up to max attack speed. I don't like switching amongst a lot of auras, so I stuck to these.
One or two points in Zeal (whatever gets you to 5 hits with +skills) is nice if you get backed into a corner. For a while, I used Cleglaw's Pincers for the knockback: if mobbed, I could switch to shield + 1h weapon and start zealing, knock back the monsters, and escape/start charging again.

Other Notes on Gear
I experimented with a lot of different gear on this fellow. Just to name a few: Highlord's, Verdungo's, String of Ears, Angelic Amulet/Rings, Aldur's Advance, 1.07 Laying of Hands, Chains of Honor, Rare belt with FHR/LR/FR, Enigma, and on switch Beast and 1.10s Crescent Moon Phase Blade. If you have questions about why I ended up using what I did, feel free to ask. The only thing I was getting from Highlord's was the ~30something% DS, and Metalgrid basically freed up my entire inventory (which was resists and AR charms), so that's why I ended up using it. Also, just for a change since so many characters have used Highlord's. That said, I couldn't really get DS from another slot, so I probably should have stuck with it and just filled my inventory accordingly.

Gameplay
Charge is almost as fast a teleport, so this guy quested very quickly. My main approach to attacks was pinging (bouncing off a monster group, darting back, then hitting again) and ponging (bouncing between multiple monsters), and more rarely charge chains. Chains happened not so often because the Phoenix axe dropped everything almost instantly. But it was fun to take out monsters like Hephasto and Frozenstein in a single charge chain.

The gameplay was extremely different from any melee character I've played before. SSoG sums it up nicely:
Instead of focusing on quantity of attacks, like a Zealot does, the Charger focuses on QUALITY. In terms of playstyle, the Charger really more closely resembles a ranged attacker than a melee attacker. He is a class of careful herding and positioning to set up very well coordinated hit-and-run attacks. When played improperly, the Charger is slow, sluggish, and ineffectual. When played properly, the Charger is a runaway freight train that will take anything that gets in his path along for the ride of its life before careening away, circling back, and repeating.
At first I used Zeal as a crutch, but about A3 Normal I decided not to use it anymore and just stick to charge, and that helped me to actually learn how to play the charger. I'm still sloppy, but it is quite fun to be more strategic than the Zealot or Frenzy Barb, who just holds attack until dead. As you approach a group of monsters, you really have to analyze the group and plain a series of attacks, and be ready to adjust as the monsters shift positions. I think it really made me a better player. And once you do get good at it, it is very satisfying and fast-paced.

Anyway, I think that's about it for now, but I know this thread needs more screenies of the actual player, and I'd really like to Bandicam his gameplay (even though I've still not quite gotten the hang of charge) so you can see how he works, which is what I think is the coolest aspect of the character.
 
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kestegs

D3 Monk Moderator
Wow, great! That's some really great gear, and I love the merc weapon as well.

As I mentioned, I am playing a HC charger, and am currently in a5 nm. Your experiences greatly mimic my own, except that my gear sucks because he's untwinked. I have never been one for melee, but as you said he plays much more strategically and like a caster/ranged.

What were some of your toughest areas or monsters?

I'm glad you stopped using zeal, I've never put any points in it and found that is never really necessary unless you get surrounded. And it does force you to play smarter since you don't have a backup.

A video would be great, I've found that screenshots don't do a charger much justice. I haven't made any videos either though, as I uninstalled bandicam a while back.

What are your future plans for him?
 

Zylo

Diabloii.Net Member
Outstanding write-up as usual. Where is the LCS screenie? Half the fun of making a charger, is showing off the LCS damage numbers. I'm excited for some video footage of this beast in action.

Did you try doing baal or CS runs with him? I think baal waves would probably be too tightly packed to be effective, but maybe CS? Do you plan on leveling him up more?
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Wow, great! That's some really great gear, and I love the merc weapon as well.

As I mentioned, I am playing a HC charger, and am currently in a5 nm. Your experiences greatly mimic my own, except that my gear sucks because he's untwinked. I have never been one for melee, but as you said he plays much more strategically and like a caster/ranged.
Act 5 NM with an untwinked charger with no points in Zeal? My hat is OFF to you, sir. I don't know how you avoid freeze-bug deaths. My reaction time is terrible; many times I think, "Why isn't my character moving... wait I'm stuck!" and a second later I'm dead. Otherwise, he's a sturdy fellow!

Yeah, Zeal definitely can be a crutch at first, and you end up playing a crappy Zealot rather than an awesome charger!

What were some of your toughest areas or monsters?
Everyone talks about end-act bosses with Chargers, and they are a wee bit of a pain, but not really that bad. Just a little slow. Merc decreps them, and then you just pong off them. If you land a good hit with CB trigger, even without the knockback you'll see a huge chunk of life disappear. Baal is a pain just because his HP is so huge, but none of them were really dangerous. A few of Baal's waves are a pain because you are in that throne room, which is cramped for a Charger. It might be nice to clear the entire Throne of Destruction a bit so you can dart away and split up Lister and his boys some. They surrounded me, and I was able to grind through them just by swinging at close range, but it was gnarly and the merc died.

High resistances with +20 absorb to lightning, fire, and cold made me pretty much immune to elemental damage. The main problems I had were monsters that swarmed the merc, or archers that would take her out.

So, things like extra fast packs with fanaticism aura were very scary. The extra fast is a double whammy for the Charger because it's difficult to name lock on the monster, AND they can mob your more easily. Most monsters aren't really quick enough to surround a charger if you play him nimbly.

I forgot: there are also other areas that aren't so much dangerous as headaches:
-The Maggot Lair
-Arcane Sanctuary
Once or twice I threw on Enigma for those because it just was taking forever to get through with PIs in tight spaces.

Outstanding write-up as usual. Where is the LCS screenie? Half the fun of making a charger, is showing off the LCS damage numbers. I'm excited for some video footage of this beast in action.

Did you try doing baal or CS runs with him? I think baal waves would probably be too tightly packed to be effective, but maybe CS? Do you plan on leveling him up more?
I know, right?!
I forgot to put LCS screenie on the thumbdrive before coming to work this morning. :(
Deadly strike pushed max damage to 54k, but without the top number is only 27k, so LCS is a bit disappointing after the Bear Sorc's ridiculous numbers, hah! Still crazy, as Charge Chains hit at ~5 fpa.

I think I will do some CS runs just for fun. You're precisely right in your assumptions about Baal runs, but CS is perfect for Charger. De Seis is scary though. Those minions can really clump up.

I will make a video as soon as I can and post in the thread, but be warned that I'm still sloppy at playing! I would love to see a seasoned Charger in action. My guess is that it would be a beauty to see. There are those moments where I'm in the zone, just connecting with everything and not letting the monsters touch me, and it feels pretty cool. Then I misclick and normal swing at a monster and my cockiness disappears. :)
 

Pyrotechnician

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
Bugs:

Because of the charge bugs, I wouldn't ever attempt this build in HC. I will say from the beginning: you will die with this character because of the bugs. I'd rather attach that warning and have some better player pleasantly surprised than to have them go into the build naively. The funny thing is, the character is actually pretty strong, and I went to great lengths to ensure that--big resists, absorb, huge leech, redemption aura, etc. I can't recall a death that was actually entirely my fault, though I died quite a few times due to the freeze bugs.
SSoG sums up a few of the bugs--
Challenge Accepted

I already have a charger started. You can't stop me now, I will for 100% sure make guardian. No doubt.

I have to say this is one of the most stylish builds I've ever read. Not only did you use phoenix in a weapon, but used wrath bow on the merc, two very highly underrated runewords that can be amazing if used effectively.

I enjoyed this thread. If I ever get enough runes to burn on a phoenix weapon I can see doing this.
 

Noodle

Moderator
Challenge Accepted

I already have a charger started. You can't stop me now, I will for 100% sure make guardian. No doubt.

I have to say this is one of the most stylish builds I've ever read. Not only did you use phoenix in a weapon, but used wrath bow on the merc, two very highly underrated runewords that can be amazing if used effectively.

I enjoyed this thread. If I ever get enough runes to burn on a phoenix weapon I can see doing this.
I can give you some Orts to get you started.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Challenge Accepted

I already have a charger started. You can't stop me now, I will for 100% sure make guardian. No doubt.

I have to say this is one of the most stylish builds I've ever read. Not only did you use phoenix in a weapon, but used wrath bow on the merc, two very highly underrated runewords that can be amazing if used effectively.

I enjoyed this thread. If I ever get enough runes to burn on a phoenix weapon I can see doing this.
Thanks for the kind words! It did actually end up being a nice, symbiotic relation between Phoenix and Wrath, which I didn't altogether plan--I just happened to have the Ber and saw Wrath on the runeword list. I'd never thought of making it before, but once I took a closer look, I realized it was a pretty cool RW.

And glad to know that I unwittingly worked some reverse psychology on you. Best of luck with your Charger!
 

Grape

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the great read and congrats on the Pat!

I liked the mercenary choice as well! Actually I liked it so much that I think I'm going to make a Wrath for myself at some point. :)

And that Axe is juicy. Great work on that! I'm also reading that SSoG's guide right now, it's seems to be excellent indeed.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the great read and congrats on the Pat!

I liked the mercenary choice as well! Actually I liked it so much that I think I'm going to make a Wrath for myself at some point. :)

And that Axe is juicy. Great work on that! I'm also reading that SSoG's guide right now, it's seems to be excellent indeed.
Thanks! Yeah, it's hard to beat an A2 Merc, but I like using something different every once in a while. I want to try a few projects with A3 and A5 mercs now...

I really liked the mercenary choice. And if wrath could me made in a polearm, omg!
I also forgot everyone who traded with me! Nulio traded me a lot of stuff this character used (most notably the 1.07 axe) as well as Grip and hackedagain
 

kestegs

D3 Monk Moderator
Act 5 NM with an untwinked charger with no points in Zeal? My hat is OFF to you, sir. I don't know how you avoid freeze-bug deaths. My reaction time is terrible; many times I think, "Why isn't my character moving... wait I'm stuck!" and a second later I'm dead. Otherwise, he's a sturdy fellow!

Yeah, Zeal definitely can be a crutch at first, and you end up playing a crappy Zealot rather than an awesome charger!



Everyone talks about end-act bosses with Chargers, and they are a wee bit of a pain, but not really that bad. Just a little slow. Merc decreps them, and then you just pong off them. If you land a good hit with CB trigger, even without the knockback you'll see a huge chunk of life disappear. Baal is a pain just because his HP is so huge, but none of them were really dangerous. A few of Baal's waves are a pain because you are in that throne room, which is cramped for a Charger. It might be nice to clear the entire Throne of Destruction a bit so you can dart away and split up Lister and his boys some. They surrounded me, and I was able to grind through them just by swinging at close range, but it was gnarly and the merc died.

High resistances with +20 absorb to lightning, fire, and cold made me pretty much immune to elemental damage. The main problems I had were monsters that swarmed the merc, or archers that would take her out.

So, things like extra fast packs with fanaticism aura were very scary. The extra fast is a double whammy for the Charger because it's difficult to name lock on the monster, AND they can mob your more easily. Most monsters aren't really quick enough to surround a charger if you play him nimbly.

I forgot: there are also other areas that aren't so much dangerous as headaches:
-The Maggot Lair
-Arcane Sanctuary
Once or twice I threw on Enigma for those because it just was taking forever to get through with PIs in tight spaces.


I know, right?!
I forgot to put LCS screenie on the thumbdrive before coming to work this morning. :(
Deadly strike pushed max damage to 54k, but without the top number is only 27k, so LCS is a bit disappointing after the Bear Sorc's ridiculous numbers, hah! Still crazy, as Charge Chains hit at ~5 fpa.

I think I will do some CS runs just for fun. You're precisely right in your assumptions about Baal runs, but CS is perfect for Charger. De Seis is scary though. Those minions can really clump up.

I will make a video as soon as I can and post in the thread, but be warned that I'm still sloppy at playing! I would love to see a seasoned Charger in action. My guess is that it would be a beauty to see. There are those moments where I'm in the zone, just connecting with everything and not letting the monsters touch me, and it feels pretty cool. Then I misclick and normal swing at a monster and my cockiness disappears. :)
Extra fast things are indeed annoying and dangerous, and the small ones are annoying to click on.

I also found the act bosses to not be as bad as advertised,which is nice.

I agree on the play, it can be incredibly satisfying to take down boss packs without being touched, but then you face a pack and totally blow everything and almost die.

Good work again, fun stuff to read!
 

Brak

Diabloii.Net Member
wow that was a fast Pat

Really looking forward to the gameplay vid!

Charger was the last side project I had going before my previous hiatus. I'll have to move him from the dustpile to the backburner.
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
Nimbus? Because this dark cloud will rain death on demons, perhaps? ;p

Very strong writeup for a quite nice character. Of course I feel you glossed over some of the bumpy points, such as how a charger doesn't get to call in the cavalry. Or how you can never really tell whether a charger's orders come from a Khan or a Custer until you get into battle. Or that the name given to this type of character lends itself to horsing around on the part of less-than-sane wordsmiths reading the thread. Of course I don't have a horse in this race, meaning it's no sugar off my cube, so I'll put this subject out to pasture.

I *think* Fire Rogues also shoot further than Cold ones (I felt like that was 100% true, but a quick search offers only one instance of confirmation :/) so that's a little extra benefit besides the lessened corpse shattering, but the end result doesn't change much. As others have said, the gear is very nice. Not sure whether you said it and I missed it, but is the knockback from Charge enough to Charge again on a target? My experience is showing, clearly, but if it is I would feel like ITD would be much less required (damage requires a pass from the to-hit formula, but knockback is supposed to always trigger on impact). Regardless, you don't need a high chance to hit when any hit means ded baddie. Rather helpful point for someone who, say, wouldn't want to use an ATMA-bugged weapon on a similar character but might be interested in the experience nonetheless. Not that I know anyone who fits that description...

Lastly:
At first I used Zeal as a crutch, but about A3 Normal I decided not to use it anymore and just stick to charge, and that helped me to actually learn how to play the charger.
"When I was a colt, I fumbled around wildly, but now I'm a stallion and I can run headfirst into anything I choose!" This is why teachers and parents try to stop horseplay.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Well there you are, maareek! I was going to be disappointed if you didn't come in and wordplay this thread. I could have talked about how when looking up PvM Chargers you feel this build is surrounded by neigh-sayers. But I didn't.

Supposedly, a charge always triggers knockback whether or not you hit the monster, and that certainly seems to be the case, especially with charge chains. I've never had a charge chain where I missed halfway through.

That said, sometimes your charger will do this weird thing where you dart towards the monster, and then just swing at the air like a normal attack. I've seen it some places classified as a bug, but I didn't feel altogether sure that was right. AR probably could have been sacrificed a bit, although having a decent AR did make end-act bosses quite a bit more bearable.

Really, I think Death with decent mana leech would be the sickest combo for this character, and that needs no ATMA bugging at all. Using charge as a means of transportation becomes a little dicey without good mana regen, but there are ways around that. Also, I'm not altogether sure you couldn't play with an A2 merc just fine, so the whole Insight option is still probably a possibility--the play would just half to be a bit different, and from my playing around, I couldn't get the hang of it.

I'm going to fool around with bandicam a bit more. My laptop is so old that running it with D2 is causing some glitchiness, but I was able to take a few videos. We'll see if I can swallow my pride and post them after I've edited them up into not-so-huge files.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Charge indeed does knockback always (not 100% true since diablo is buggy game and knockback can fail. I had numerous tests where I wasn't able to perform single charge-chain since first charge didn't even knockback the target), it doesn't matter did you hit the target, did AR vs defense check pass, or did monster block the attack. In theory you can chain-charge monster to infinity.
What prevents charging to infinity are obstacles (can't knockback monster through rock and similar stuff) and also when knockback doesn't put attacked monster out of melee range (knockback has distance up to 3 sub-tiles), or when knockback fails for whatever reason. Those prevent charge-chains to be done till infinity.

I cannot support knockback thing to details with tests since I didn't test that (I can confirm charge knockback can fail though and it's not that rare sight), but I can confirm that attack rating, defense rating and block % doesn't matter for charge. I charged 27k defense max block character with 10k AR charge with average of 3-4 chain-charges (It went up to 30 once, closest I got to infinity charge-chain).

That knockback thing made some people believe that lower range weapon is more successful in charge-chains than higher range weapon (due to being harder for monster to remain in melee range after knockback), but I cannot confirm that. I tested range 2 vs range 3 weapon without clear conclusion (actually range 3 weapon had more successful charge-chains, but they are more or less the same). Now tests need to be performed on range 4 and range 5 weapons to see does weapon range matter.
 
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kestegs

D3 Monk Moderator
Charging a monster that it is too far away is the biggest reason I fail to knock back, besides an obstacle of course. I never really consider it a bug, I just figured I'm outside of range.

Only 1 other time in pvm was I unable to maintain a charge chain. That was with an extra fast lister. I think his hit recovery/attack was just too fast. If something can recover in less time than it takes to start your next charge then they can cause a normal attack instead of charge.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
Interesting info, everyone. The Glorious Axe I used is range 4, and I was able to do close to infinity knockbacks as @Gripphon describes when testing on PIs, so range 4 seems to work well.

One nice thing about a longer range weapon is that after a long charge chain, if you hit a wall or it is broken for some reason (monster in the way), then you stop the monster is further away from you. So it's a bit safer than a short range weapon.

One really cool thing that can happen if you equip knockback in addition to charge (for example with Cleglaw's) is that if you get mobbed, sometimes you can hit a monster with the normal attack animation, and if knockback triggers, then a charge chain will automatically start! I suppose this is only magnified the shorter range weapon you use. I used this technique quite a few times with Cleglaw's, but it wasn't consistent enough with a range 4 weapon to keep the gloves.

I had no idea you could knockback Lister
Yeah, you can knock back quite a few big baddies with charge! I was surprised because I mistakenly thought charge didn't work against ANY superuniques, but actually it's only a portion. Blood Raven, Hephasto, The Smith, Lister, etc., can all get their butts kicked all over.
 
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