Patch 2.3 = Non-Season Leaderboard Reset Outrage



[caption id="attachment_385361" align="alignright" width="250"] Covered by the fig leaf?[/caption]Buried in the fine print for the Season Four/Patch 2.3 release date was a tidbit about the current non-seasonal leaderboards and what will happen to them when Season 3 ends and all the seasonal characters merge back in with the Non-Seasonal characters. Nothing, that's what'll happen. Currently there are not plans to end/lock/freeze the NS Leaderboards, which has outraged many Non-Season players.

Patch 2.3 = Non-Season Leaderboard Reset Outrage! Here's the quote:

Once the Season ends, all Seasonal Leaderboards will be wiped and you will be unable to attain new Leaderboard ranks until the next Season begins. The results of the previous Season’s Leaderboards will remain available for viewing in-game. Once the new Season begins, a handy drop-down menu will allow you swap between the current and previous Season records.

Don’t forget that you can also view current and past Leaderboards right here on our website.

The non-Seasonal Greater Rift Leaderboard will be unaffected by the end of Season and you’ll still be able to compete on them with your non-Seasonal heroes (including those who have just rolled over). These Leaderboards will be reset at a later date; we’ll have more information available as the end of the Era draws nearer![source][/source]

Underlined added for effect. The issue is that Seasonal heroes have had 4 months to build up perfect gear, including great rolls on various season-only legendary items that are often key to making various builds work. The people who have been toiling in S3 non-seasonal think their records will be obliterated by Seasonal chars after they merge, especially since Seasonal players will all get a big Paragon boost once their seasonal EXP adds in.

So what's likely to happen? How much higher (if at all) are the Seasonal leaderboards, compared to the current non-seasonal? Click through for the grim details...

  • Season: #1 GR63, #10 GR60, #100 GR56.

  • Non-Season: #1 GR60, #10 GR58, #100 GR54.
  • Season: #1 GR64, #10 GR59, #100 GR56.

Demon Hunter:
  • Non-Season: #1 GR64, #10 GR60, #100 GR57.
  • Season: #1 GR65, #10 GR61, #100 GR58.

  • Non-Season: #1 GR59, #10 GR56, #100 GR53.
  • Season: #1 GR63, #10 GR60, #100 GR55.

Witch Doctor:
  • Non-Season: #1 GR60, #10 GR57, #100 GR53.
  • Season: #1 GR61, #10 GR57, #100 GR53.

  • Non-Season: #1 GR62, #10 GR59, #100 GR55.
  • Season: #1 GR65, #10 GR60, #100 GR56.

Two Player:
  • Non-Season: #1 GR70, #10 GR66, #100 GR62.
  • Season: #1 GR71, #10 GR68, #100 GR62.

Three Player:
  • Non-Season: #1 GR72, #10 GR71, #100 GR66.
  • Season: #1 GR75, #10 GR73, #100 GR66.

Four Player:
  • Non-Season: #1 GR74, #10 GR74, #100 GR71.
  • Season: #1 GR77, #10 GR75, #100 GR70.

Okay, so... actually, I'm surprised the numbers are so close. In solo, aside from Monks and a few #1 rank outliers, the Seasonal Leadersboards are virtually the same. And since (Non-Season players get ready to object) the most active and aggressive players are doing Seasonal (10h a day streamer type players, certainly) you would actually expect the Seasonal scores to be higher.

The story is a bit different in multiplayer Leaderboards, with much higher GRs cleared in Seasonal. Or are they? They are at the #1 and #10 ranks, but when you get down to #100, the S and NS are nearly identical. So does this represent some inherent advantage for Seasonal parties, or just the fact that, again, the most active and skilled players are doing Seasonal, and pushing the very top of the Leaderboards higher?

That said, even if there aren't huge competitive advantages for Seasonal characters, it seems pretty stupid to merge all the Seasonal chars in with the Non-Seasonal, in terms of Leaderboards. Most players chose to play S or NS for the duration of the season, and the final Leaderboard rankings should archive that. Not just archive Seasonal, while throwing Non-Seasonal Leaderboards into chaos by dropping in the entire Seasonal player population for just a few days before the next Patch drops.

Finally, note that Blizzard used the same wording about S2 S vs. NS Era 2 leaderboards, and then decided to lock/archive the NS boards before the characters merged. So maybe they'll come to their senses and do the same thing this time?

Do you guys care about this? Think Bliz is being dumb? Think the NS players are just QQing when they should be grinding and putting their Paragon point advantage to better use?
Continue reading the Original Blog Post.
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Diabloii.Net Member
I think I'd care more if I was actually on the leaderboards. For now, picture a cat without claws trying to climb up a tree. That's me. (And the leaderboards are the tree, yes.)


Diabloii.Net Member
Some people may like to compete but don't like the climb-up-again aspect of seasons. That's a valid stance, IMHO. I do think the leaderboards should be kept separate and reset. It would make the non-seasonal players who care happy, and I don't think many seasonal players would object.


Diabloii.Net Member
"That said, even if there aren’t huge competitive advantages for Seasonal characters, it seems pretty stupid to merge all the Seasonal chars in with the Non-Seasonal, in terms of Leaderboards."

This. It's just staggeringly poor planning. I don't personally really care, simply because it doesn't affect me (which is really the only reason why most people won't care), but you can't deny that it's just a ridiculous lack of organisation, but something that I'm not really surprised by anymore...


Diabloii.Net Member
I tried really, really hard - but I completely failed to care about rankings of any type in a game this RNG-dependent. I don't MIND that it's RNG dependent... but no one's fooling anyone here. Top rank = time played 99.9% of the time, because that's what you need to get that perfect rolled Uber-widget that lets you finish that perfect rift you spent days fishing for. Congrats?


Diabloii.Net Member
What you mentioned in your second paragraph was the exact same thing that came to my mind when I read this. If the non-season leaderboard would reset every time a season ends that would essentially mean that there is no non-season leaderboard, just another season leaderboard that's always one season behind.


Diabloii.Net Member
The top players are always the ones who have the most time to dedicate to the competition. This is true even in competitions that are highly skill based, like simulated autosports, with which I have considerable experience with. There your time is spent on getting a good feel for the cars, perfecting their setup and learning as much about the tracks as possible. If you're up against someone who've been going at it for years no amount of natural talent will help you. Even up and coming stars need years of practice. Luck is still a factor in actual races though, just to a much lesser degree than in D3. That's the key thing to realize, that luck and skill are factors no matter where you look, just to varying degrees. While someone may find an ideal rift early in the season in D3 that's unlikely to happen and over the duration of a whole season chances are that everyone will see multiple similarly good rifts. At that point however they also need to herd the monsters well to get a good time, while also trying not to get OTK'd too many times (preferably not even once of course), which is not that easy in 60+ rifts from what I've seen.


Diabloii.Net Member
Just Remake Diablo II LOD.. I am sure many have played this version of diablo for a decade, investing countless hours trying to make the best PvP Barb or run through Baal runs with no effort. In the end Diablo II was the best RPG I have ever played. If this game was ever remade it would most likely make more money than any blizzard game to date.


Hardcore Moderator and America Trade Moderator
I think most of the people that care about the leaderboards are playing seasons so I don't see this as any sort of big deal. It's cool to get a new record time in a GRift and move up the leaderboard on non-seasons but it's down the list a bit as to what I focus on playing this game.


Diabloii.Net Member
Have you played any other Blizzard games and realized how many people play them? Hearthstone is so lucrative and World of Warcraft, even with losing millions of players over the years, is still making them millions per month.


Diabloii.Net Member
Dave is right and I definitely see what you're saying. I just think you're missing the point, though, that non-seasonal characters won't necessarily get to "relish" in their current leaderboard ranking because a large in-flux of seasonal characters can inflate the current era causing a lot of people that don't enjoy the grind to get knocked off. This has been the common practice up until now, correct me if I am wrong. I understand NS character frustrations with this but, as someone already mentioned below in the comments, NS leaderboards should not be ended at the same time. I think it's just an example of Blizzard trying to get it right as they go along further into these seasons. I believe it's called an "era" for a reason.


Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, a large percentage of Diablo players have no clue about anything else Blizzard does. Buying Diablo and RoS gives Blizz about as much money as 6 months of a WoW subscription. WoW's been going since 2004; the math isn't terribly complicated.


Diabloii.Net Member
Yea, the merging will make a mess of the NS boards. There aren't as many people playing in NS, so getting a full group is very difficult. So, you're already at a disadvantage with fewer paragon. Then you can't group farm the high GR keys you need to break records. So, after lots of hard work grinding your way to the top of the leader board solo they'll give the seasonal players a shot at the NS leader board. It's BS.

They'll have left over keys. Tons more paragon, and items that weren't accessible before that will all mean era 3 NS leader boards won't be NS leader boards. They'll be season 3.1. If you aren't a competitive player and don't find this environment to be competitive, then that's fine. But it is. And this announcement is BS.


Diabloii.Net Member
Even more so if you've only done like 160-something in s3. Then it adds up to... basically nothing after the merge.


For most of us it's sad, like 50 more paragon. But we're not at the top of the leaderboards either.

You saw that P2000 news; the guy was P1300 in Era and P1750 in Season, giving him like P2009 total. That's an extreme case, but I'm sure there are plenty of players on the top of the S3 leaderboard who are going to gain hundreds of paragon levels when the season ends, which is enough to probably boost them 2 or 3 GRs.