passion necro

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
passion necro

I was thinking of making a build using the passion rune word on the necro.
Obviously it would be a melee build utilizing bone armor and decrepify definitely. Any suggestions for other skills and items to use?
 

jackfunk

Diabloii.Net Member
I had thought of this as well, since I had made a passion for my dream enchantress.

I think crushing blow would be beneficial.

I had a hard time finding necro zeal breakpoints for ias though.

Treachery armour might be cool for the big IAS, fade, and Venom.

Maybe go with max RS, and SM for a some backup. Synergize up your Bone armour. Get an Act2 might merc. Get a heathy CE radius and use Amp as your main curse.

Max Block and some DR from Stormshield? Angelic amy/ring, Raven? Guilliumes and Gores? Bloodfists, Verdungos? Would be fun to sit down and go through the stats, try to meet breakpoints.

Cast Amp, wade in and Zeal away, drop some corpses, then CE the whole screen down. Rinse and Repeat.

Maybe with judicious use of Life Tap this build could Uber??
 

bogie

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, you also have to take into account the physical damage done per blow, which, using passion, wont really be that much. Its about 75-230 damage, with the best possible setup for ed%, you could get...
300% ed from Fort
400% ed from Phoenix
250% ed from Might
150% ed from Strength

Thats probably all your going to get without sacrificing alot, such as an infinity merc, which will allow you to hit monsters much easier, by cutting their defense by 85%.

Thats 1100% ed total, so we take the original damage of 75-230, and we get 900-2760 total damage per hit. You want to avoid an elemental pulse auras on you actual character as they will draw in enemies from around the screen, instead you should use a 1 point fire golem and maxed golem mast with dream helm on your merc, to give you two true tanks. I guess that with the proper gear, you could also get about 60% crushing blow, which should be fine.

This build could solo, using lifetap, but it will not be a fast killer, though using CE would speed things up alot, and you can use prison and bone wall to shepard enemies to where you want them.
A build would look like this,
1 Bone Armor
1 Teeth
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone Prison
20 Golem Mastery
1 Clay Golem
1 Blood Golem
1 Iron Golem
1 Fire Golem
9 Curses (grab one from everywhere except lower resist)
20 Corpse Explosion
Rest of points into Clay Golem/Curses for more range if its insufficient.

Bogie,
 

Darker Realm

Diabloii.Net Member
You might want to use Berserk more than Zeal because of the CTC Dim Vision, unless if you Amp them first and are strong enough to kill one or more adjacent opponent(s) in one Zeal.

Passion would work very nicely on one of my Necromancers. Here are his stats, and may serve as a template. He is level 90 and still leveling and does extremely well in late Hell Difficulty. He is well-balanced for both PvP and PvM.

Darker Reign:

200 Strength - for Sacred Armor requirement and damage
200 Dexterity - for improved attack rating, defense, and max block at very high character levels (95+)
Rest on Vitality

1 Bone Armor
1 Teeth
1 Bone Spear
1 Corpse Explosion - extremely useful skill, put more if you want an edge against monsters
20 Bone Wall (I'm almost there)
20 Bone Prison (I'm almost there)
1 Clay Golem
1 Blood Golem
1 Iron Golem
1-20 Fire Golem*
1-20 Golem Mastery*
5 Curses (AI curses not included for PvP reasons, none on Life Tap because it is not useful for this type of Meleemancer IMO)
1 Raise Skeleton }
1 Raise Skeleton Mage } as you can see, the three AI curse points went here
1 Revive }
20 Skeleton Mastery

*Since part of this build is defensive as well, Bone Armor synergies take much of the available skill points. If you are maxing Golem Mastery, put only one on Fire Golem. If you are maxing Fire Golem, put only one on Golem Mastery. I personally have Fire Golem maxed for an offensive build.

Here is what I wear:
-Shael'ed Veil of Steel (Ideally Shael'd or 40ED/15IAS Guillame's Face)
-Sacred Armor Enigma - you will want quite some defense if you plan to zeal. Lacquered Plate or Archon Plate are also good choices.
-Nosferatu's Coil (or recommended, Arachnid's Web)
-Stormshield (Ideally Shael'd or 40ED/15IAS'd)
-Lava Gouts Crusader Gauntlets (upped)
-Shadow Dancers - I recommend Shadow Dancers over Gores for its defensive properties, and I recommend Gore Riders for lower character levels (has nothing to do with the level requirement but relates to the scaling of Deadly Strike on Highlord's) or when you want to take on the offense.
-Fast Cast Rate/Attack Rating/Life Leech/Life/Strength/Dexterity/Regeneration Ring
-Raven Frost
-Highlord's Wrath

Potential Weapons for Passion with Necromancer in Mind:
Phase Blade**
Cryptic Sword
Glorious Axe
Giant Thresher**
Balrog Blade

**Recommended
 

Dazuni

Diabloii.Net Member
I do have a passion Phase blade manacer, but he is a summoner really and the passion effect was just for fun.

I think it is important to realise that zealing necro will not have much zeal without any + skill, so there is a need for +skill items. So mara (or highlord), bk, soj and that spiderweb belt become very important, personally I like bk more then soj for the life boost and life leech. It is important to get 5 hit per zeal so 3 + all skill is needed (mara and 1 ring)

Secondly, I realise that necro don’t hit much, even with the + 80% AR on passion. So it is important to get some ar, the items that grant the most ar is the angelic partial set, but of cause you want to have the ring and amu slot open for more important item (like mara and bk), therefore you have to get ar elsewhere, I decided to use lava gout, it give you some good % + ar, but you do have to have some base in ar first to benefit it, which mean put some points in dex, which lead to my 3rd point.

Thirdly, as necro you don’t have much life, okay, bone armour is nice but it take 1 or two hit and you are in trouble. So I would say think about max block, this coincide you need ar, so dex point is well spend. The shield that I been thinking of is the like of typical necro shield, i.e. humo, but I realised that “the spirit ward†(the last unique elite shield) is very good, it give you ctc fade, i.e. give you 50% resist increase and you become fade, look cool. This will really sort out your resist problem.

Lastly, passion don’t do much damage, to give moster a good kick, you need the special effect of Open wound, deadly strike and crushing blow. Have you gear orientate that way will help a lot. I personally use umed gilliame face and gore rider. That give you a good 50% cb, that is 2.5cb per zeal.

I have eni for armour.

I did this at the time because I realise there is a total independence of summoner skill and gear, i.e. once you summoned, you can put on what ever gear you want, summon will stay as strong as they are. So I thought melee would be fun.

With all that, I have tried to run necro solo (no merc), to see how much he can take, what I find is that he can go and do act 5 hell wp 2 and kill elderrich and shenk without problem. but recasting bone armour is annoying when you are zealing, chances is that when there are range attacker the necro will be in trouble…
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
Zeal Breakpoints for a Necromancer using a 1-handed sword:

Code:
+------+-----+-----+-----+
| EIAS | 1st | F-U | End |
+------+-----+-----+-----+
|  -20 |  12 |  12 |  23 |
|  -17 |  11 |  11 |  22 |
|  -13 |     |     |  21 |
|   -9 |  10 |  10 |  20 |
|   -4 |     |     |  19 |
|    0 |   9 |   9 |  18 |
|    6 |     |     |  17 |
|   13 |   8 |   8 |  16 |
|   19 |     |     |  15 |
|   27 |     |     |  14 |
|   29 |   7 |   7 |     |
|   36 |     |     |  13 |
|   47 |     |     |  12 |
|   50 |   6 |   6 |     |
|   59 |     |     |  11 |
|   74 |     |     |  10 |
+------+-----+-----+-----+
How to read this table:
First off, this is in proper zeal notation, not common zeal notation. To get these numbers into common zeal notation, take the number in the third column, and put it in front of the number in the first (and second) column. For instance, that very top breakpoint (the -20 one) reads as 12/12/23 in proper zeal notation, but is more commonly referred to as a "23/12 zeal" (and yes, that's really, really slow).

If there is no number listed in a column for a specific breakpoint, you just use the last listed number. For instance, by the 74 EIAS breakpoint, there's no number in the first column. Just look up to the first number you find (in this case, 6 frames), and that's the value you use there. So the 74 EIAS breakpoint will net you a 10/6 Zeal (still pretty slow, but fastest achievable by a Necro).

Finally, remember that this is *EIAS*, not IAS. To calculate how much IAS you need to hit the respective EIAS breakpoint, use this formula:
EIAS = IAS/(1+IAS/120) - WSM

In other words, take an IAS value, plug it into that formula, subtract your WSM, and you have your weapon's total EIAS. Since that's a lot of work, here's a handy IAS to EIAS conversion table.
Code:
EIAS/IAS Conversion Table
+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+
|EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS|
+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+
|   1|   2| |  31|  42| |  61| 125| |  91| 377|
|   2|   3| |  32|  44| |  62| 129| |  92| 395|
|   3|   4| |  33|  46| |  63| 133| |  93| 414|
|   4|   5| |  34|  48| |  64| 138| |  94| 434|
|   5|   6| |  35|  50| |  65| 142| |  95| 456|
|   6|   7| |  36|  52| |  66| 147| |  96| 480|
|   7|   8| |  37|  54| |  67| 152| |  97| 507|
|   8|   9| |  38|  56| |  68| 157| |  98| 535|
|   9|  10| |  39|  58| |  69| 163| |  99| 566|
|  10|  11| |  40|  60| |  70| 168| | 100| 600|
|  11|  13| |  41|  63| |  71| 174| | 101| 638|
|  12|  14| |  42|  65| |  72| 180| | 102| 680|
|  13|  15| |  43|  68| |  73| 187| | 103| 728|
|  14|  16| |  44|  70| |  74| 194| | 104| 780|
|  15|  18| |  45|  72| |  75| 200| | 105| 840|
|  16|  19| |  46|  75| |  76| 208| | 106| 909|
|  17|  20| |  47|  78| |  77| 215| | 107| 988|
|  18|  22| |  48|  80| |  78| 223| | 108|1080|
|  19|  23| |  49|  83| |  79| 232| | 109|1190|
|  20|  24| |  50|  86| |  80| 240| | 110|1320|
|  21|  26| |  51|  89| |  81| 250| | 111|1480|
|  22|  27| |  52|  92| |  82| 259| | 112|1680|
|  23|  29| |  53|  95| |  83| 270| | 113|1938|
|  24|  30| |  54|  99| |  84| 280| | 114|2280|
|  25|  32| |  55| 102| |  85| 292| | 115|2760|
|  26|  34| |  56| 105| |  86| 304| | 116|3480|
|  27|  35| |  57| 109| |  87| 317| | 117|4680|
|  28|  37| |  58| 113| |  **| 330| | 118|7080|
|  29|  39| |  59| 117| |  89| 345| | 119|14280
|  30|  40| |  60| 120| |  90| 360| | 120|inf |
+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+
I know this all seems very confusing at first, so let me walk you through an example.

Step #1: Look up the Zeal breakpoint you want to hit, and see how much EIAS it requires. In this example, we're going for the maximum speed breakpoint (10/6), which requires 74 EIAS.

Step #2: Decide what weapon you want to use, and look up its WSM on arreat summit. For this example, we'll use a Phase Blade (-30 WSM).

Step #3: Take the EIAS you found in step #1, and add in the WSM you found in step #2. For this example, we take 74 and add (-30), which gives us 44.

Step #4: Using the table, look up the IAS value that corresponds to the number you calculated in step #3. In this example, we look up 44 EIAS, and find that it corresponds to 70 IAS.

Step #5: You're done. The final number you got in step #4 was how much IAS you need to reach the specified breakpoint with the specified weapon. That means that a Necromancer needs 70% total IAS to hit the maximum zeal speed (10/6 zeal) with a Passion Phase Blade.

Edit: Whoops, forgot all about skill-based IAS (which iirc, for a necro, can only come from a friendly Fanaticism aura). If you're under the effects of Fanaticism, then figure out how much IAS it is providing, and subtract that from your final result in step 4 before looking it up in the table. For instance, if my Passion PB-wielding Necro is under the effects of a slvl 12 Fanaticism (31% skill-based IAS), I'd subtract that 31 from the 44 EIAS I got at the end of step #4, which would leave me with just 13 EIAS necessary for the final breakpoint. Looking that up in the table, all I'd need is 15% ias to hit the final breakpoint. Since Passion has 25% IAS built-in, I'd be swinging at max-speed no matter what with a Passion Phase Blade and slvl 12 Fanaticism.
 

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
Would it be possible to use a paly torch to boost zeal? That way with annihilus and the pally torch u would get to the 5 hit mark and you would still be able to use angelic.
 

Dazuni

Diabloii.Net Member
Would it be possible to use a paly torch to boost zeal? That way with annihilus and the pally torch u would get to the 5 hit mark and you would still be able to use angelic.
I dont think it will work like that, else it will be like using fire skiller boosting trang fire wall.....

but 3 piece angelic gives +1 all skill on amu.

or you can wear eni for +2 all skills.



 

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
nm, with chains of honor plus annihilus you get +3 to skills which is enough for 5 hit zeal. u dont have to sacrifice angelic rings and ammy and u get some decent resists casue of armor. Also would a 5 hit zeal attack at 10/6/6/6/6? at its fastest break point? thanks.
 

Thrandir

Diabloii.Net Member
I never found it that hard to hit lvl 5 zeal. Once you're high enough (and if you're rich enough) You get +2 from Enigma, +2 from crest; lvl5 right there. Otherwise, throw on a couple SoJ's and a Peasant crown and you're lvl4.

My Passion Necro is lvl 53 right now, in act5 Nightmare. I seem to be taking a much different approach than some of you guys...

My passion is a Zweihander, and I've got a 4-socketed Colossus sword lined up for when I get all the runes for a second. I find that the second hand is worth the huge damage. A passion phase blade is still only a maximum of 35 dmg times 210%, whereas, with a colossus, something like 121 dmg times 210%. You get more than triple damage, and you still hit pretty fast (for a necro) with these swords.

My skill setup is:
20 RS
something like 15 SM
5 SMage
1 clay -> 1 GM -> 2 Summon Resist (put the second point by accident, lol)

1 shield
1 wall
1 teeth -> 1 CE -> 1 BS -> 1 cage

Amp -> whatever -> Decrep


My alternate weapons are a +3 summon wand and a +3 RS head, and also a Flamme for the enchant charges (more for the AR than the fire dmg, lol)

Between my Blessed Aim merc (yes, blessed aim. Maybe I'm just a noob, but I prefer the AR, at least for now), Enchant, and Heart of Wolverine, my AR is doing great so far. I let my skellies get just slightly in front of me and then zeal from behind them(two-handed sword=long range), connecting solidly and dropping things fast. Usually I curse with decrep. For crowds of hard-hitting guys like thrashers, I sometimes resort to CE.

For gloams, I leave the game and start over ;)
 

Dazuni

Diabloii.Net Member
For gloams, I leave the game and start over ;)
let us know how you get on, I bet that hell will be more difficult then nm, but if you have summon as back-up (or main attack) then you should be okay.

for me zeal was pure effect delivery, crushing blow, deadly strike, open wound and poison.

but when facing shenk it is nice that they dont go away (by terror) and their hit point just drop very very quickly.



 

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
using a 2 handed weapon and hiding behind ur skele front is more of a commando build. You dont expect to take that much damage so you can have a 2 handed weapon. The thing is i dont like commando builds because you are always torn on items between making your summons better or making yourself better and you end up half way on both. In a true melee build u expect to take hits and give them out while being on the front lines yourself. In order to do that you need a shield, with max block, lots of life, damage reduction and attack rating because the necro cant hit things for ****. getting all this means that you cant have items that give a lot of plus skills so your summons suffer and summons die pretty easily unless they are buffed pretty high.
In my passion necro build ive concentrated primarily on 3 curses: amp, decrepify, and life tap. even though passion will negate these curses, with a fast enough attack speed and a lot of enemies to hit you'll hit a lot of them without triggering blind or terror. Plus on bosses they are usefull cause you cant terror or blind a boss. Decrepify is of particular use because the monsters u arent hitting are weakened. If u need to heal just cast life tap and instant full life. Amp is usefull nightmare-early hell when you dont need to weaken your enemies, and in late hell its still usefull for physical immunes.
I get bone armor synergies to help soak some damage and a golem to help draw some fire.
The point is all these skills dont need a significant boost to make them usefull. A lot of the curses are useful with 10 levels or less, so you can concentrate on items that boost your tanking/melee skills without worrying about plus skills needed to make your abilities usefull.
 

Darker Realm

Diabloii.Net Member
buckbuck's strategy on hiding behind a few minions is one of the reasons along with weapon speed why I put Glorious Axe (range = 4) and Giant Thresher (range = 5) as potential two-handed weapons.

If you are going sword and shield, you might want at least a range 2 weapon, which would open you up to Phase Blades and Cryptic Swords.
 

Thrandir

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, my Passionmancer is a bit commando at this point. But If you look at my rationale:

1. No, I am not torn between gear for minions/gear for me. My gear is all meleemancer stuff. My alternate weapons (which I just use at the very beginning of a game, for summoning) are the minion-themed ones.

2. I hide behind the skellies mostly out of convienience, not necessity. Alone, I can still take on three to four average monsters at once, or two to three hard hitters. But if I'm up against a mob, having a skellie or two out front helps me take them down much faster than luring them off in twos and threes.

3. Fully synergized Bone shield takes 40 points (60 if you actually max the skill itself :p ) and only blocks physical damage. Fully Synergized skellie shield, (not counting mages as shields) also takes 40 points. But it blocks a ton of physical and magical damage, does some damage back, and lasts a lot longer. So, from a purely practical PvM point of view, skellies are a better shield than bone is :p

So yeah, I'd still consider myself a...passion-using melee-mancer.
(What do we call a passion-using meleemancer? Dark Zealot? Necrozealot? Passionmancer? Zealmancer? Chaos Knight?)

Dazuni: sure thing, I'll keep you posted. This guy is really fun to play; once I have that colossus sword finished, he should be pretty strong in hell difficulty.
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
nm, with chains of honor plus annihilus you get +3 to skills which is enough for 5 hit zeal. u dont have to sacrifice angelic rings and ammy and u get some decent resists casue of armor. Also would a 5 hit zeal attack at 10/6/6/6/6? at its fastest break point? thanks.
Yes, a 5-hit, max-speed zeal would attack at 10/6/6/6/6. Actually, technically, it would attack at 6/6/6/6/6 and then have a 4-frame follow-up animation, but it amounts to the same thing- 5 attacks in 34 frames.

Anyway, if you plan on hiding behind something, might I recommend Bone Walls and Bone Prisons instead of minions? They're more effective blockers (enemies on the other side physically CANNOT target you unless they have a piercing attack), they are a lot sturdier, and they have much better AI ( :wink3: ). Plus, you'll probably want to get them, anyway, because they synergize Bone Armor.

I beat Hell with a Bonewalling Meleemancer. Cast a bonewall, wait for monsters to cluster up, poke them over the pile of bones, fall back and repeat. Against Archers, use Bone Prison and poke them over the bones.



 

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
Only problem with a skele shield is they wont last long without a lot of plus skills equipment. And u insist that all your gear is melee stuff so you probably dont have a whole lot of plus skills.

Also skeles cant be summoned from out of no where, so you dont have an easily renewable shield unless you are owning everything. Almost infinite physical resistance if u keep recasting it. If your skellies all die your dead, unless you run away to thin them out, which i dont like to do.

True skeles do obsorb damages other than physical but thats what life tap is for. If you get zapped too much just lay down some life tap.

I guess the real difference is a matter of prefernce. I like to be able to tank a huge group of enemies, not just 2 or three, and u probably prefer having a larger amount of damage.

the only problem with larger damage is that the necro doesnt have much comparitively anyway and his main source of damge is from crushing blow. with a slower attack speed you get less crushing blows, which probably makes killing things slower.
 

Thrandir

Diabloii.Net Member
buckbuck said:"Also skeles cant be summoned from out of no where, so you dont have an easily renewable shield unless you are owning everything."

Yeah, I've been owning everything :grin: Well, put it this way: so far my skeletons aren't dying much. (Btw, I looked at my char: I actually have both RS and SM maxed) So, using skeletons is (for me) much faster than raising bonewalls and waiting for things to cluster, and much sturdier than the boneshield. Don't get me wrong, though: I do think boneshield is a great skill, I plan to max wall and cage for it later on.

I think I'm beginning to realize that my character is highly stylized. I'm using a two-handed sword partially because I have a thing for two-handed swords. I'm not using crushing blow because I don't like how it gets weaker as you attack more, and how it comes as a percentage instead of a sure thing. So yeah, if I were going by the bread-and-butter meleemancer strategies, he would probably be quite different. But, as is, he's cool, and he's doing well.


Oh, and SSoG, kudos on the bonewalling Meleemancer. Those guys are the coolest of all. (Except maybe pure bonemancer:wink3: )
 

buckbuck

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh thandir i like the chaos knight suggestion cause you'll look exactly like one with a big 2 handed sword :)

If u dont use crushing blow how do you kill bosses? without crushing blow you'll barely pick away at a bosses hp and your minions will go down quick against bosses leaving you exposed.

You may be able to own normal enemies, but im sure bosses will give you trouble.

I dont like using bone wall or prison becauses it clutters up the screen and limits my movement.

Maybe its just that i like to be the tank and not my minions which is why i prefer using bone armor.

Maybe i should call my build a tank o mancer or somthing like that becasue thats more suited to my style.
 

Thrandir

Diabloii.Net Member
lol, tank-o-mancer? Maybe Metalmancer? Maybe you could be the Chaos Knight, I kinda like Necrozealot...

I deal with the bosses differently. With Andy, Duriel and Meph (and Baal, normal) I just cursed and hit, with diablo (normal) I bought a wand with +2 bonespear and took him out with that (I'm most at home with a bonemancer, anyways) and in nightmare I snuck around and drew his fire away from my skellies while they did the job for me. So yeah, I guess I wasn't zealing much against Diablo...but then...you know what happens when you zeal against Diablo...

*Necro begins the first hit of a lvl5 zeal*
*Diablo whips out a Pink Lightning of Death*
*Necro dies after fifth hit*
 
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