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Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by maareek, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Alright, well I wasn't as prepared as I would've liked, but I did a little overview of my Baal runner from the MFO: WhyNot, a Frenzied ZealBarb. If you're not familar with that concept, here's the Pat thread. I also included a little section on why you should build a Frenzied ZealBarb of your own. Video spoilered below.


    The reason I'm pushing this idea is a few fold: first, I have no more plans to play Diablo 2 and feel that this build needs to be felt out in much greater depth than I have thus far. Second, I really enjoy seeing people putting together interesting build ideas and I think this outline provides incredible depth for leading to builds based on the concept that look and play completely different from each other. Lastly, I feel this is by far the most accessible character of the multiple kooky ones I've made. When I say you can make a solid Frenzied ZealBarb from pretty much whatever you have, I'm not just flapping my gums.

    Consider the weaknesses of the Zealot Paladin: He's slow, he has basically no crowd control and he has no solution for Physical Immunes (and IM, if you're playing a patch prior to 1.13). Contrast that with the ZealBarb, who has skills to run monsters away, stun monsters, weaken monsters and a skill to have distant ranged monsters stand attacking to come up to you ("Excuse me, Mr. Gloam. Could you come over here please? ... ZERK!") on top of Berserk to handle any Physical Immunes. Now you add in Frenzy, which grants unparalleled movement speed, allowing you to outflank dangerous enemies, pick out dangerous bosses and separate yourself from even the baddest of attackers.

    One of the greatest advantages of the Barbarian Zealot comes from his hat. Arreat's grants a whopping +4 skill levels to Frenzy, meaning that pretty much any Frenzied ZealBarb can have at least a skill level 25 Frenzy. That accounts for a huge chunk of IAS, not to mention all the other juicy mods on that hat and the available socket it presents. This is not to say that Arreat's is a requirement; you can get by fine without it, but it can take that out there build and make it solid.

    And don't forget, if you find a War Scepter/Divine Scepter/Caduceus with +Zeal, you gain that modifier on your Barbarian, if you make Passion in the weapon. So, if you find a War Scepter with +2 Zeal, make Passion in it and cast Battle Commands, you automatically have level 4 Zeal, granting you all 5 hits.

    What it all comes down to is this: the Frenzied ZealBarb is not summed up with WhyNot. This is not a "use these items or fail" build. It is a template, from which many other ideas may be built. Say you want to run the Chaos Sanctuary with a melee build, for kicks. Take this template, add in Leap Attack, drop a few points in Find Item and voila. You can howl away minions and regular monsters to clear the way to uniques, then taunt over what you need to keep your Frenzy constantly charged. Plus, you get to hork the corpses. You want a hardcore Baal runner and don't care about items? Pump Double Swing and Taunt. This doesn't even cover equipment, which is eminently customizable because only one item is required. Find the breakpoints you want, throw on some extra groovy mods and go.

    I bring all of this to your attention, because WhyNot was probably my second favorite character of my D2 time (nothing touches Blova) and I want to make sure everybody understands that when I said in my Pat thread I would command this build to a friend, I wasn't joking. This concept is a lot of fun and provides more than ample opportunity for you to customize it into whatever you want and go out and make it work. And, if it doesn't work, you've got enough utility skills to make it through without abandoning it, anyway. And, even if it didn't work the way you wanted it, finishing the game with a build you started and planned is always a nice feeling. That's what I'm really after here: giving you nice feelings while you play, because I've had so many here. Not to sound pompous, but I look at this idea as my gift to you, not because I consider myself some visionary or whatever, but because it's something I stumbled on and want to share just how amazing it was for me with you. So, give a Frenzied ZealBarb a chance, for me. Like momma always said, "Try it, you might like it."

    Thanks for putting up with my little rant. If you have any questions, comments, musings or general inanity (I'm looking at you, omg! ;p) feel free to post away.

    May the good mojo rest in your dojo, may the good huju go wit ju and may the demons of ill hocus-pocus be set upon by locusts. Cheers!
     
  2. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Still looking for a 4os +3 Zeal Divine Scepter in 1.09 since I plan on making this build in my first round when I finally make the jump to 1.13. I have a couple plain 3+ Zeal War Scepters, but I want the Passion to be made in something that will make use of the melee mods too.

    My prolonged stay in 1.09 has kept me from trying this, but it's in the first round of 1.13 plans.
     
  3. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Looking good! :) Hopefully it convinces some people to try him out.

    I see no signs of a Holy Freeze + Decrepify reference, but in any case, is 'Grief' what you would consider ideal? Aside from that and the other runewords, how about Stormlash? It's still pretty fast under the slowest conditions (and can be paired with the +3 Zeal 'Passion'?), so how do you think that compares?

    EDIT: Just realized, but would you have preferred 'Grief'/'Passion' in swords for the crazy speed?
     
  4. Pijus

    Pijus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I think Death is used because of it's 40+ chance of Deadly strike.

    The build sounds very interesting, except the part where Frenzy only lasts 6 seconds. I'd try it if it weren't for that and if I had a Lem rune :p
     
  5. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I think Stormlash would be a great weapon. Like you say, it would pair well with a +Zeal Scepter Passion and it has an available socket. A Stormlash with an Eth in it should make an excellent weapon for Baal/Diablo runs. I seriously considered using Stormlash when I was thinking about WhyNot but fastest attack speed with Death was too cool to pass up.

    I didn't talk about Holy Freeze + Decrepify because if you're needing to plan for that you should be able to figure out what you need (ie, you have the wealth and desire run Baal and/or CS) since it shouldn't be much of a concern for general questing. I will say that at p1 Death seems to work alright under HF/Decrep (I mean, it's definitely a huge slowdown, but it's doable) but at p8 I just don't see the Death BA as a viable option. WhyNot died to p8 wave 2 with HF Achmel because he couldn't output enough damage. It wasn't a "omg he died in one hit" thing, it was me shoving him every potion I had and could pick up and he still just kept losing HP. You'd have to get Lister alone and then just use Zeal against him (to prevent stun) and even then I have my doubts.

    Grief and Stormlash both should be more capable in that situation. Though, obviously, that's the worst of cases and of little concern to someone not looking to run Baal/Chaos Sanctuary for experience and/or runes. Stormlash with an Eth might actually be faster against Baal than Grief with the combined CB and Static, but I imagine Grief will still be faster vs regular monsters. Either should be pretty awesome, though.

    I wasn't too interested in using respecs on WhyNot to test out swords, but I definitely think using swords instead is an interesting idea. I'd love to see somebody test how well the build works using swords as base items for Baal running.

    @Pijus: 6 seconds is a long time in-game. If you're hitting at 4/4/4/4/9 Zeal (what WhyNot hits at when not Decrepfied/Holy Freezed), you complete an entire Zeal cycle in 1 second. To be safe, you can do 3 cycles and then switch to Frenzy, make a hit, and then go back to zealing. If you have a strong weapon, most things won't last 3 zeal cycles, anyway. ;) When questing, I never had a problem keeping Frenzy active, though when running Baal you'll lose your Frenzy charge between each wave...which is more than a little annoying when the unique spawns with Holy Freeze.
     
  6. tavaritz

    tavaritz Banned

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Nice build and I think I'll use it in the future.

    But for Zealot's defence I say: HF + Delirium = enough crowd control for anybody. Put Lawbringer in there for overkill. If you need more running speed Harmony on rogue is nice, but I prefer Faith for the damage.

    Actually my frosty uses Guillame's and the Delirium is on the babe.
     
  7. LiquidClear

    LiquidClear IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I had been saving up to build a Frenzy barb anyways and might give this variation a shot... lacking the socketed Zerker axes to make runewords atm, as well as Arreat's though :(

    I got a few questions off the top of my head, might have more later as they come to me.

    1. I saw in the video that the Passion Zerker Axe has 25 durability. How long does that last before needing repairs? I assume it lasts at least an entire baal run?

    2. Another one about the Passion. Does its relatively low damage compared to other possible options hold you back in any way? (Other non-zealot options obviously)

    3. Is he capable of running baal on players settings above 1? I assume being melee he won't ever really do p8 very quickly, but are efficient p3 runs out of the question?

    4. I'm hardcore. Any special considerations you think the build would need to look at for playing HC vs SC?

    Love the build, and congrats on the MFO victory. I've been looking for something fun and different that still kills, so this might be my ticket. :D
     
  8. Frowzor

    Frowzor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    First: I have been convinced. The new barb is now level 13, and Doubleswinging with Jewel of Wrath'd Crystal Swords.

    Second: Regarding decrepify/HF, this is a point in favour of Grief/Passion Phase Blades. I've noted this on my standard dual-PB frenzier, that with sufficient IAS decrepify doesn't actually do a whole lot, and a quick check shows this char would notice even less.

    Example: With 2x PB (and my min roll 30 IAS grief) with lvl 25 frenzy and decrepify on, he should zeal at 10/5. If I actually pushed his total IAS up to 89 (including the grief roll) he would be able to zeal at 9/4 regardless of decrepify.

    @LC: Any melee character running eDeath can kill Baal efficiently. It's probably one of the best weapons for melee baal-runnig. Regarding the passion's durability/damage. If it really bothers you you could ebug it fairly cheaply if you're into that sort of thing, but otherwise I don't think it would be a big deal. Frenzy should actually be a sort-of secondary attack with this build I think. You charge up innitially with frenzy, and then just zeal everything down with you power weapon (death, grief, stormlash, whatever). You only actually need to frenzy every 5-6 seconds to retain your IAS/FRW bonus.

    I don't actually play HC, but if I had to guess I'd say some points in War Cry couldn't hurt. Stunned monsters can't hurt you very badly.
     
  9. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    @tavaritz: Well, as a knock against Delerium, you can't control it. Also, no Taunt, which is incredibly valuable against gloams, skeleton archers, slingers, etc. Plus Delerium takes up a helm slot on either char that could be better put to use. Point proved, though, I'm obviously knocking Pala zealots a bit harder than necessary, but I have a good reason. I despise Paladins. ;)

    @LiquidClear: Thanks! I haven't been keeping strict track, but I'd estimate the Passion Zerker needs repairs every 5-8 Baal runs. When I used Grief instead of Death, it normally needed repairing once every 2 runs. The Passion acts more as a stepping stone than a stumbling block - you should free up enough other slots by using it to offset any small damage decreases.

    I ran everything at p3 a few times when I was testing p3 Baal and it definitely seemed fine. I'd imagine p8 is viable, but I'd be very leery of trying it in HC.

    Like Frowzor, I'd strongly suggest putting at least a point in War Cry, and just in general using your warcries very well. Also, be extra super careful in the Throne until you know dolls haven't spawned there. Between their speed and yours you can be dead very quickly if there are witches around to AMP you.

    @Frowzor: I'll definitely be interested in seeing your progress!
     
  10. Obdob

    Obdob IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    just tried this out on my frenzier:
    Passion
    Cryptic Sword
    'DolOrtEldLem'
    One-Hand Damage: 14 to 217
    Durability: 35 of 44
    Required Dexterity: 109
    Required Strength: 99
    Required Level: 61
    Sword Class - Very Fast Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 86
    Fingerprint: 0x8a988cae
    +182% Enhanced Damage
    Adds 1-50 lightning damage
    75% Extra Gold from Monsters
    25% Increased Attack Speed
    +1 to Berserk
    +1 to Zeal
    Hit Causes Monster to Flee 25%
    Hit Blinds Target +10
    59% Bonus to Attack Rating
    75% Damage to Undead
    +50 to Attack Rating against Undead
    Level 3 Heart of Wolverine (12/12 Charges)
    Socketed (4: 4 used)

    switched out a Lawbringer-PB for it.

    I only tested briefly in the WSK/Throne, but so far I like the Lawbringer better. The decrepify / sanctuary on the Lawbringer are just so helpful against PIs and Gloams and OKs and any other undead baddies.

    This is what he uses:
    Weapon: Grief-PB/Lawbringer-PB (or Grief-PB/Passion-CS)
    Helm: Arreat's Face
    Armor: Treachery
    Gloves: Magnus Skin
    Belt: String of Ears
    Boots: Gore Riders
    Amulet: Seraph's Hymn
    Ring1: Rare w/ resists
    Ring2: Manald Heal

    I suppose I should probably try again with Reaper's Toll on the merc. A zealing barb is a pretty awesome sight, I'll admit.
     
  11. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I just tried it out with my frenzy barb. 1.07 eth Death Colossus Blade with a Passion Phase Blade. The River of Flame on /p5 was decently fast, and I'll try Baal runs sometime soon.

    Edit: My barb insists on holding the PB in has main hand after I switch weapons twice, regardless of which weapon is over the gloves. Is there any way around this? (Aside from fixing it manually, of course.)


     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  12. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Thanks for posting this maareek, something that went on to my To Do List.

    Also, this thread made ma make a To Do List.

    --Greebo
     
  13. Zhao_Yue

    Zhao_Yue IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I was watching you video and noticed that you have Death in your main hand, which would make for a slower frenzy speed. Did you do that to zeal with the Death weapon?
     
  14. essojay

    essojay IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Hey, this sounds really fun! You almost tempted me to reinstall D2 and unzip my save files ... but I'm just not going to go there with my 100-hour work weeks. :p Maybe when I'm back in school.

    Thanks for the good post. :D
     
  15. nubikoen

    nubikoen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    It has to do with the order-of-equip. Solution. Respec with higher strength.

    I made a thread about it some time ago.

    diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746063



     
  16. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Sort of; this is a bug. I'm using a Death, so it was a hel rune in it, however the game is referring to the unmodified str reqs to determine order-of-equip. The weapon only needs 142 strength, but having 142 strength is not enough, I have to have 179 (str req before hel rune) in order for the items to be equipped in the correct order. What a pain.

    The character has 122 base strength, and arreat's face provides the needed 20 to wield the sword. Oddly, though this seems to not work in accordance with the order-of-equip you gave in that thread. All that is needed for swapping to be done correctly is for me to have 179 strength, regardless of where it comes from. (The list is probably checked twice as was suggested.)

    I'm also posting this in the other thread where it is more on topic, so as to not derail this thread too much.


     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  17. Frowzor

    Frowzor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    Hmm, now I have a bit of a conundrum. I'd intended to go swords all the way, but not having checked my stashes, I didn't realize I had a base sitting there already with 4 sockets waiting to be made into this:

    Code:
    Passion 
    War Scepter 
    DolOrtEldLem 
    One Hand Damage: 30 - 51 
    Durability: 37 of 70 
    Required Level: 43 
    Required Strength: 55 
    Fingerprint: 0xca47ae00 
    Item Level: ** 
    Version: Expansion 1.10+ 
    +25% Increased Attack Speed 
    200% Enhanced Damage 
    59% Bonus to Attack Rating 
    +225% Damage to Undead 
    +50 to Attack Rating against Undead 
    Adds 1 - 50 Lightning Damage 
    +3 to Zeal (Paladin Only) 
    +1 to Conversion (Paladin Only) 
    +1 to Meditation (Paladin Only) 
    +1 to Zeal 
    +1 to Berserk 
    Hit Blinds Target +10 
    Hit Causes Monster to Flee 25% 
    75% Extra Gold from Monsters 
    Level 3 Heart of Wolverine (12/12 Charges) 4 Sockets (4 used) 
    Socketed: Dol Rune 
    Socketed: Ort Rune 
    Socketed: Eld Rune 
    Socketed: Lem Rune
    
    And there you thought the good damage roll on your BA was pointless :p

    I don't actually have a stormlash, but I do have a dirt roll schaefer's and a very high-end stone crusher, which can apparently both easily hit 9/4 zeal with this character. Or I could make Oath in an eScourge... Maybe I'll just have to make three or four Mareek-Barbs instead of just one. Decisions, decisions :)

    Edit: Or I've got a couple of high damage roll Redeemers and go for the dual-scepter barb... hmmm...
     
  18. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    @Frowzer

    I don't see any reason why you can't mix that with another weapon type. You'll be zealing most of the time, only pausing to frenzy long enough to get the speed up again.

    If you find you no longer want to use that scepter, I'm sure it'll fetch a pretty penny in the Trade Forum.

    @mareek

    I just came into a Grief BA (;) ;)), so I think I'll make a new axe zeal barb instead of respeccing my sword frenzier.
     
  19. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overview of WhyNot and Thoughts on Frenzied ZealBarb Builds

    I'd say that Schaefer's would give you major style points! The ED roll on it is pointless anyway - it's the scaling damage and static that make this shine. Kick it Old Skool/New Skool with a Barb Schaeferdin!


     

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