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Overhaul my Charms!

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by DaveTheGreat, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Overhaul my Charms!

    Well, my bowazon is a level 90 of the strafe/guided variety, I figured I should at last go through my charms and see what I can improve on. Which is why I came here, since I really don't know much about these sorts of things.

    I would like to keep at least a 2x8 section open at the end of my inv for grabbing items. That, plus the tomes leaves.... Some amount of open space.

    Here are my charms

    Small charms:
    16 life 4 cold resist
    13 life 10 fire resist
    11 cold resist 9gf
    17 life
    25 poison damage 9 poison resist
    100 poison damage over 5 seconds

    Large charms:
    5 frw 5mf
    1-38 lightning damage 10 fire resist
    7 all resist
    30 life
    23-39 fire damage
    50 poison over 6 seconds 12 fire resist
    5 frw 1 max damage
    8 all resist

    Grand charms:
    ~none!

    Unique charms:
    14/19 ztorch
    111/34/13 gheeds
    *save a spot for anni

    Well thats all, I would really prefer to keep the gheeds as I enjoy mfing on my zon. Also I may be acquiring a few skiller gcs, we'll see. I don't have a lot of currency to throw around for charms, so anything I could maybe find on my own would be great. Also my resists are terrible, in hell I only have max poison resist and negative in some.
     
  2. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    I don't know your complete gear but if you want to maximize your dmg, what you've gotta get is Fine charms of any size. They give +max dmg/AR and can have a suffix like FRW and life (though the dual affix ones are really expensive).

    As a bowazon you don't really need life for PvM, you want a somewhat beefy Valkyrie and a merc to tank for you. With a good amount of FRW you will seldom get hit, thus life isn't that high priority. The +max dmg charms don't seem that big a deal since it's not that much dmg af first glance, but remember that the +max dmg is multiplied with any skill ED, your mercs might aura (if you have one), of weap ED (can someone confirm this?) and your (hopefully) huge dexterity - one dex = +1% ED. So in the end they add quite a bit of a punch.

    If you, however, have no problem with killing speed/chance to hit you might be better off looking for FRW, MF (what is your total MF?) and perhaps res to fill any gap in your res that you might have..

    So, as a general notice, the best charms for a bowie are Fine Charms of Inertia (FRW) or of Vita (life) but to properly answer this question we would need to know your full gear, to be able to see what gaps your equipment have, because thats what charms rock for - filling gaps!

    now I'm off to the laboratory!

    cheers
     
  3. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Thanks Borje, heres all the info on my zon in order to get a better picture.

    Resists: (in hell)
    38 Fire
    13 Cold
    -14 Lightning o.o
    85 poison

    Merc:
    Andy's visage
    Duriels shell
    Insight CV

    My merc has almost all maxed, going to socket his andy's visage with a ral right now.

    Stats:
    157 str
    386 dex
    75 vit
    29 energy
    17 free points

    Skills:
    Maxed guided/strafe/valk
    High (71%) critical
    1 Freezing arrow
    2 or 3 in other passives (gets a good + to skills bonus)

    Equipment
    Andariels visage (un socketed)
    AP fort 27 resist, 1647 def
    Faith GMB
    Laying of hands
    8ll 7ml rare ring
    Ravenfrost 19/216
    Razortail
    War Travs (47mf)
    Atma's scarab ammy

    My total mf is a measly 86

    That answer all your questions?
     
  4. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Well, yes it did.. As a general note your res doesn't need to be very high, since ideally you won't get hit! However, depending on what areas you run (or do you PvP?) you might want to get your Light res up - souls being the biggest threat. Also, +elemental dmg charms doesn't help all that much, it justs add the dmg to your attack, no increase by some cool aura or -enemy res items so they aren't very effective.

    Looking at your stats, I miss two thing: what is your life atm? and what is the lvl of your fanat aura on faith?

    First a quick (looking back, it wasn't that quick...) estimation what +max small charms can provide and some notes on the remaining stat points: Your dex is 386, as long you don't have serious problem surviving, which you shouldn't, the remaining stat points should go to Dex. That would give you 403 dex, lets round it off to 400. This will mean +400% ED, your faith aura will add more, depending on the lvl on the fanat aura (from +237% for lvl 12 to +288% for lvl 15, lets assume +250% which is a little lower than for a lvl 13 aura) futher more you wear fort which is another +300% ED, +100% ED (acctually a bit more) from your GA/strafe skill and against demons you will have +350% ED thx to laying of hands. Your total off weapon ED is +1050%, against demons it is +1400%.

    Thus, every +1 dmg from a charm will result in 1+10.5 = +11.5 to your max dmg, +15 against demons. Now, every small charm can ideally get +3 to max dmg (not counting the superexpensive dual affix ones that can go higher) that is +34.5 to your dmg, against demons this would be +45 max dmg. Large charms can get +6, which equals 2 SCs but probably will be cheaper and grand charms can provide the biggest dmg boost, they can get +10 max dmg just from the "Fine" prefix, resulting in a whoping +115 to max dmg, +150 against demons. So you see, they give a really big boost to your dmg!

    The Fine SCs can provide better boosts from their second mods, the best are Fine SCs of Vita with 3/20/20 (max/AR/life) or Fine of Inertia with 3/20/3 (max/AR/FRW) which, while three of these (the space of a GC) can provide 9 max/60 AR/60 life or 9 max/60 AR/9 FRW while the Grand charms can provide 10 max/76 AR/45 life or 10 max/76 AR/7 FRW. These Fine/Sharp of Vita/Inertia will be very expensive and the most omportant mod for you are the +max dmg so above anything else, look for this mod to be as high as possible! Phew, this got a little longer than I was thinking ^^

    I have bolded the charms I think you should replace primarily, and italiced (made Italic, is that italiced? :rolleyes:) the ones you, after that should consider replacing.

    This puts your res at
    Fire: 32 (when you put a Ral in the Andy's, 2 when you don't)
    Cold: 9
    Light -14 (get one or a few +11% small charm to get this up if you feel the need)
    psn: way up there ^^

    Try swapping the charms out for +max dmg charms, primarily get plain ones to crank as much +max dmg out of them - get some plain ones with life/res if you feel too voulnerable, but I would recomend trying without them. Frankly I am far from an expert on zons, so I am pretty much just giving back the info I have found myself. So, to sum it up: +max dmg charms will give you a huge boost to your damage - use as many as possible! Remember that plain +10 max Sharp grand charms can boost your max damage by +115, +150 against demons!

    Good luck!

    EDIT: The preffix for Large and Grand Charms are not Fine, it's Sharp..


     
  5. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Wow, thanks a lot Borje! That was very informative and interesting, I much appreciate it. Not sure if this changes anything, but my GMB's aura is lvl 14, I have level 29 strafe/guided, and I have 652 life. I always wondered how + to max damage worked, I could never figure out why people would pay so much for a charm with just +3 to max damage. Now I know :rolleyes:
     
  6. BubbaHoTep

    BubbaHoTep IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    I would agree with just about everything Borje says. If you try tradign for charms you may be able to get away with trading pgems for ones that only have +max dmg on them, otherwise I would suggest cow running. I'm not quite sure what the limit on what mods can drop in norm cows but I recall finding a few decent ones in norm cows while running 7 lower level guys through. Just don't let them grab the charms before you do!
     
  7. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Dave, well, it doesn't change things that much, only the numbers get a little higher and you gain a little more dmg/charm. slvl 29 GA give +140% ED and Strafe give +145% ED, lvl 14 fanat gives +270%. That is another +60% ED for GA and another +65% with strafe. Meaning each +1 dmg will result in 0.60 and 0.65 max dmg respectively, I wont rerun the numbers but you get the picture ;)

    Hmm, I think your merc can be played around a bit with... hope you dont mind =) What kind of aura do you get from him? If it is Might you will get approx another +200% ED from him. If you also changed that Insight for a Pride (Cham + Sur + Io + Lo << pretty expensive) you will have another +285% to +345% ED which is quite a bit. This is Pride:

    Code:
    25% Chance To Cast Level 17 Fire Wall When Struck
    [B]Level 16-20 Concentration Aura When Equipped (varies)[/B] << this boosts your dmg a 
    lot!
    260-300% Bonus To Attack Rating (varies)
    +1-99% Damage To Demons (Based on Character Level)
    Adds 50-280 Lightning Damage
    20% Deadly Strike
    Hit Blinds Target
    [B]Freezes Target +3[/B]
    +10 To Vitality
    Replenish Life +8
    1.875-185.625% Extra Gold From Monsters (Based on Character Level)
    If you want some safety from your Might merc instead of pure dmg from a Conc. aura you can slap on a Doom (Hel + Ohm + Um + Lo + Cham) which will give him a lvl 12 Holy Freeze aura:

    Code:
    % Chance To Cast Level 18 Volcano On Striking
    [B]Level 12 Holy Freeze Aura When Equipped[/B]
    [B]+2 To All Skills[/B] << boosts his Might aura lvl!
    [B]+45% Increased Attack Speed
    +330-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)[/B]
    -(40-60)% To Enemy Cold Resistance (varies)
    20% Deadly Strike
    25% Chance of Open Wounds
    Prevent Monster Heal
    [B]Freezes Target +3[/B]
    Requirements -20%
    Well, I have owned neither a Pride, nor a Doom and my bow zon was a WindForce user with a Faith merc so I can't really tell from own experience. But if you can afford one, you can probably afford the other and unless you really need the safety from a holy freeze aura I'd say go for Pride instead of Doom. But for the sake of completion... =)

    If you can't afford that Pride or Doom I would still suggest you swap that Insight out. The mana cost of your skills are very low and since you have mana leech you really don't need that Meditation aura. If you can't afford the Pride you could either get him the Obedience rune word (Hel + Ko + Thul + Eth + Fal) which is a very cheap rune word and gets awsome mods:

    Code:
    [B]30% Chance To Cast Level 21 Enchant When You Kill An Enemy[/B]<< will boost his AR [B]
    40% Faster Hit Recovery
    +370% Enhanced Damage[/B]
    -25% Target Defense
    Adds 3-14 Cold Damage 3 Second Duration (Normal)
    -25% To Enemy Fire Resistance
    [B]40% Chance of Crushing Blow[/B]
    +200-300 Defense (varies)
    +10 To Strength
    +10 To Dexterity[B]
    All Resistances +20-30 (varies)[/B]
    The Crushing Blow will help a lot against bosses!

    Another possible option is getting him an (eth) Reapers Toll. It will give him a 33% chance to cast Decrepify which slows monsters down, lowers their damage and lowers thier physical resistance with 50%. You are wearing the Atmas Scarab that has a chance to cast Amp dmg that lowers their phys res by 100%. If you use the Reapers toll you can switch that atmas out, ok, so you will loose (quite) a bit of dmg - counting Amp as allways going off, which it doesn't. But you win a lot of safety from the slow/lower dmg and you can switch that amu for something else. You can either go with Highlords for +1 skill (not that usefull), 20IAS, +35% light res and roughly 30% Deadly Strike. Another option would be the Cats Eye for 30% FRW, 20 IAS and +25 Dex (as we know, this +25% ED). I don't really know if this trade off (reapers vs atmas) is worth it, but what I can tell you is that a meditation aura is not very usefull for you so I was just picking up a few possible changes.

    I agree with Bubba, the plain Fine/Sharp charms are not expensive and you can trade for them pretty cheap. About cowing for them: the alvl of the Fine prefix on SCs and the Sharp prefix on Large charms is 28, the alvl of the Sharp prefix on Grand Charms is 29. IIRC the normal cows are lvl 28, thus small and large charms with the wanted prefix can be found there, however, the grand charms can only be dropped by champions/minions/uniques and the likes. So I suggest you start doing some cowing in normal with as many players as you can in the game and make sure you pick up all charms that drop!

    Oh, I just realized, when you quote something everything is writen in italic.. Well I had marked all charms except the large res all charms as possible changes. When all but those are fine/sharp charms I would suggest you try taking them out of you inventory and putting them in the staqsh for a while to see if that kills you a lot. Also, what areas do you run? If you mainly do the pit, res shouldn't be too much of a concern..
     
  8. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Hmm, I've been looking at getting a pride but as you said, it is rather expensive. I was curious though, how does that wf+faith merc combo work out? I've heard of a lot of people using it, but I myself have never tried it. Figure I should at least look into it before I spend a lot on my a2 might merc. It just seems a little strange, giving your merc the better weapon while you take a (still good) but outdated bow for yourself? I'm still curious though, as the knockback on the wf is a useful mod. One otherwise only achieved by using a Giant skull or crafting some nice gloves.

    I mostly do Diablo runs, some Countess runs, and some hell cow runs. I usually just mix it up, I would like to be able to do Hell Baal runs but I'm afraid to try.
     
  9. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Well, first I'd say you are kinda wrong about Faith being the "better" one. It's not that simple.. Windforce has one thing, beyond any doubt, a higher raw damage! It has an awsome +3.125 to max damage/character level which, at level 85 is about 265 to your bows max damage and that is huge! You get a max damage on the bow that is well over 500, you get mana leech and you get knockback. The only downside is that it's kinda slow, the base weapon is the same as a GMB which means you need 120 IAS to reach 2 frame strafe speed - without fanat aura, that is! If you slap a faith on your merc you only need 40 IAS, 55 for the fastes (a faster start-animation) with a lvl 12/13 aura and 35/50 with a lvl 14/15 aura. It gets better: Windforce comes with an inherent 20% IAS and can be socketed for another 15/20 IAS boost or some other thing you need. This can put you in a possition where you don't need IAS from anything but your bow so you can use another pair of gloves and helm, for instance chancies+shako for MF. Ofc you would miss the other bonuses from andys (LL and str mainly) and LoH (+350% ED to demons) but if you really want to MF it works!

    Personally I think WF + Faith shows it's true power if your cram on 95% IAS (and has a fanat that is higher that lvl 12) and you use Multishot, thats right multi shot. If you run CS you will truly love this, just stand in an opening and spray a few multies and the entire battlefield is cleared - sorta. It's really powerfull!

    KremBanan has written a great guide for a WF+Faith-merc Zon found here myself, I really liked the strafe/multi/LF/CS hybrid - the guide written by Kiyja can be found here.

    GL
     
  10. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    That sounds very promising, I would love to try it out! .... Ouch, just noticed merc can't wield class specifics.... That means I would have to spend heavily on making ANOTHER faith. Well, I guess I would have spend even more making a pride. Hmmm. This will take much considering, would the attack speed be faster than my current? (If I socketed the wf with say, a shael) that is.
     
  11. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Well with your exact same gear you would have 60 IAS, that takes you to the fastest strafe speed. As oppoesed to the one you have now it will only be a difference of one frame for the entier strafe-animation. However, 60 IAS puts you at a fasteer GA/Multi shot speed. 95 IAS would take you to the fastest and Multi shot totally rocks with that speed and a few skill points in it. 95 IAS would be reached by socketing your bow WF with a Shael ()must be a shael) and your andys with an IAS jewel.

    This might take a remake, I know, but it will rock! :wink2:
     
  12. DaveTheGreat

    DaveTheGreat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Hmm I'm more of a strafer myself, would that be just as fast? Also would my damage with wf + a1 faith be greater than my damage with a faith GMB and a pride might merc? Even if the damage on the stat screen is higher in one or the other, which has the higher damage per second? I only have 2hrs left in funding, a Ber and a Jah, I suppose I could trade the Ber for an Ohm and I'd be able to make a faith. What bow should I make it in for my merc however? And what type of act1 merc would be best? Also, what happens if I get less than 13 fanat on the faith? Roll up in a ball and cry? I don't *think* that theres that much major improving I could do on my equipment otherwise (aside from getting an anni) which is the only reason I'd be willing to spend heavily on making another faith.

    All in all this is very promising, and in a way somewhat convenient. I was starting to get a tad bored on my zon ;). I just don't want that faith GMB to go to waste...

    Sorry for all the questions, but I'm very curious about this build. Had only heard of it faintly before hand.
     
  13. KremBanan

    KremBanan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Overhaul my Charms!

    Since you are a Strafer, then Wf/Faith really shines above Faith/Pride, as the Amp Dam procs more.

    You could try trading for a Faith with 13aura and 1skill. It would save you some runes, since it should be worth lower than if you make it yourself.

    If you make it yourself, I reccomend a 15ed Great Bow.

    For Rogue, go with Cold hired in normal.



     

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