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Outrageous Poison Nova

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Ghoul, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Ghoul

    Ghoul IncGamers Member

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    Outrageous Poison Nova

    I'm wondering if this will work...

    20 Poison Nova,
    20 Poison Explosion,
    20 Poison Dagger,
    20 Lower Resist

    Would all three of those other skills maxed make Poison Nova awesome? Or is this a stupid idea?

    --
    Bleiben Sie Ghul,
    Spinne
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    The skills alone won't make Poison Nova awesome...you also need some good gear like Death's Web, Bramble or 3 piece Trang Set. The problem with Poison damage is that most monsters in Hell will have very high poison resist. This means that you have to reduce that resistance before you can do serious damage. Lower Resist will take you some of the way but to really kill you need some more -% enemy resists.

    Also lvl 20 Lower Resist is probably overkill, the diminishing returns are really steep, so 1-5 points and a lot of +skills. Maybe get some minions to protect you:)
     
  3. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    it would work well with Deaths fathom,trang ouls,bramble. :thumbsup:

    Rik
     
  4. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Poison damage with the right items is phenomenal against monsters, less exciting vs. bosses, but mercs fill in the gap nicely there. There are entire guides devoted to poisonmancers and variants. Check 'em out.

    I wouldn't put 20 in LR though. Once it reaches around 60% at level 15 you get less than a point of -res per level. Maybe 5 points and plus skills to carry it the rest of the way.
     
  5. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls IncGamers Member

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    LR only needs 1 point in it to be effective...your +skills takes care of the rest.

    The main item that you will need is the d/web...with it everything is that much easier for you in hell...and going back to norm and nm to do rushes or help your friends becomes a joke because of it.

    You can get by without a bramble armor...or even use complete trang's set for that matter...and still be effective.But if your going for the "lets see how mcuh damage i can do route"...then you will need the bramble and some 5/5 poison facets as well.

    HoS
     
  6. Ghoul

    Ghoul IncGamers Member

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    • Ok, thanks then: I won't max Lower Resist.
    • What should I put in Energy for this kind of Necromacer?
    • And should I use [font=arial,helvetica][size=-1][font=arial,helvetica][size=-1][font=arial,helvetica][size=-1]Wizardspike[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font] or[font=arial,helvetica][size=-1][font=arial,helvetica][size=-1][font=arial,helvetica][size=-1] Blackbog's Sharp [/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]for a dagger? Or stick with a wand: Death's Web?
    --
    Bleiben Sie Ghul,
    Spinne
     
  7. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Lower Resistance is helpful for damage increase, but shines with immunity removing. Since it is so diminishing, more than one point is a waste (after the average amount of +skills). However, for immunity removal you want to get it to level 10 after +skills. Why? Quite simply, that is the cutoff for immunity removal. (since -res is effected by the 1/5 immunity penalty)

    At 100% resistance a monster immunity goes away with a level 1 LR
    At 105% resistance a level one LR works as well (since it's -6.2 after the 1/5th penalty).
    However, at 110% resistance, a level ten is required to remove it, because the game seems to round up with resistant %s, thus a 99.8 poison resistance from level 7 LR = 100%, likewise a level 9 LR would be 99.2 poison resistance, which for some reason = 100%.
    At 115% resistance -80% poison resistance "in skill" (as in from LR, put this way to distinguish from gear -res, which functions differently) would be needed to remove the immunity, which is impossible. The highest possible amount of -res from LR is level

    10 charms (curse..duh ;) )
    2 rings (sojs/bks)
    3 ammy (+3 curses)
    3 helm (+3 curses)
    2 armor (coh/nigma/arcaines)
    1 belt (arach)
    2 gloves (trang)
    6 wand (+3 LR +3 Curses)
    4 shield (homonc)
    1 anni
    1 battle command
    2 skill shrine

    = +37 = lvl 57 = -69%

    The next two breakpoints are at level 60 (-70%) and level 89 (-71%)

    So beyond level 10 LR doesn't help all that much, also -res in gear is by far more effective once you get LR to 10, since it is NOT effected by the 1/5 penalty on immunes (once you break em with LR), and it increases your poison damage/sec AND your poison length, due to either a bug or feature.

    Do not invest into energy, Poison Nova stays at 20 mana per cast, just use mana potions early on.

    Blackbogs would help with the poison damage alot more than wizzie, however if your resistances are poor I'd use wizzie. (fcr doesnt' matter much for a venomancer)

    Deaths Web is the best thing to use for a Venomancer by far.
     
  8. Ghoul

    Ghoul IncGamers Member

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    So should I focus on Vitality then? And what should I do after I max those 3 psn skills and 10 to LR? Corpse Explosion?

    I have Trang Set, I will be using that for a little while. And I looked up Deaths Web, I'll be using that as soon as possible.

    --
    Bleiben Sie Ghul,
    Spinne
     
  9. cotton

    cotton IncGamers Member

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    A point in CE never hurts, although I doubt you'll need any more. It has about the same uses as Nova, so I think it is a bit redundant. You could always boost your bone armor synergies if you are going pure poison, or you could go the route of the hybrid with either minions or bone skills.
     
  10. Ghoul

    Ghoul IncGamers Member

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    So... I'm a bit lost still:

    Should I focus on Vitality?

    What should I do after I max those 3 psn skills and 10 to LR? Bone skills? I don't think that would work to well, I'd run out of skill points to do anything effective.

    --
    Bleiben Sie Ghul,
    Spinne
     
  11. cotton

    cotton IncGamers Member

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    You should either focus on Vitality or Dex if you are going for max block. There are lots of threads about this choice.

    To make a poison/bone hybrid, you probably need to take advantage of the marrowwalks bug. There is a guide stickied if you are interested.
     
  12. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    I think 1/20 in skeletons, 1 point in summon resist is one of the best complimentary skill sets for poison. You won't need block with minions. So just go with vitality and enough strength and dex to equip your items. Always take 1 point in corpse explode no matter what kind of build you have. It's the nastiest 1 point wonder in the game.
     
  13. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    If you don't need blocking (which is a decision you'll have to make at some point) yes. Else dex+vit. Only enough strength to wear your gear.

    Marrowwalks might be a good idea even for poison necros --- a lvl 1 bone armor gets a lot of hitpoints then.

    A weak bone skill (boosted by marrows, of course) can be used to get the corpses from a poison immune pack to get the CE under way. Firewalls from trangs pretty much serve the same purpose, except that you'll find more fire/poison immune combos than poison/magic or poison/fire/magic :) But you still have your merc... so it's not really required.

    You could also invest in skeletons or revives as meatshields, or bonewalls. Problem with skellies is that they are very weak and fragile in your case; problem with bonewalls is the usual --- they block YOU as well. Problem with revives is the AI, or rather their missing AI, and the timer on them.

    You might at least consider to get Gumby as summon (i.e. one point in gumby, one in golem mastery, one in summon resist, and of course all prereqs). Tragns gives you +5 skills; in your case a +2 necro skills amulet seems better than a +3 skilltab, so you'd have +7 for a lvl 8 gumby --- not great, but I think it's not that bad either. Putting 1 point into revives... don't know how many skillpoints you'd have left then. Maybe someone can comment on the playability of this combo...
     
  14. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Truncate after the division by 5.

    Slvl 1: -6% vs immunes
    Slvl 10:-11% vs immunes
    Slvl 15: -12%
    Slvl 27: -13%

    There are no monsters with (base) immunities between 110 and 115%, so anything higher than Slvl 10 is pointless for immunes.
     
  15. Jerion

    Jerion IncGamers Member

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    You = Crazy
     
  16. sequoia

    sequoia IncGamers Member

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    so what parts of trangs should a venomancer use to hit the 3 piece bonus?

    armor is already taken, and i imagine you'd go shield/gloves for two, but what about the third? belt or helm? belt has cannot be frozen, which is very nice
     
  17. Ghoul

    Ghoul IncGamers Member

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    Venomancer Build:

    20 - Poison Explosion
    20 - Poison Nova
    20 - Summon Skeleton "Meat" sheilds
    20 - Skeleton Mastery
    10 - Lower Resist
    1 - Summon Resist Bonuses help
    1 - Corpse Explosion Bonuses help
    1 - Poison Dagger Bonuses help

    (Up Vitality, Enough Strength for Equipment, No Energy or Dexterity)

    So... How does that look?

    --
    Bleiben Sie Ghul,
    Spinne
     
  18. sequoia

    sequoia IncGamers Member

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    i think revives would be a better choice because they do not require amp so much, and only need one point in revive and one point in skel mastery, a lot less than skeletons (even with revive's prereqs). also, 10 points in LR is a bit rough because if you have the right gear im sure you will have enough +skills to hit 10, say 1-4 hard points would be enough. Another argument for revives would be that you would not have to worry about them disappearing because venomancers do not have a very quick pace, so the revive AI would not be an issue. i'm sure many would agree that revives are, in the least, better meat shields

    this also means you still have many free points, in which case i'd max CE (but thats just me)
     
  19. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Most people go Gloves, Belt and Shield.
     
  20. Zalcitabine

    Zalcitabine IncGamers Member

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    I am currently self-rushing a poison/summon hybrid in hell. I think they can be very effective but need expensive gear. You can probably build one with less godly stuff but he is probably gonna be slower/weaker in hell. Here is my build:

    Curses:
    1 in every curses (I love attract)

    Poison and bone:
    20 poison nova
    20 poison explosion
    20 poison dagger
    1 in bone armor
    1 in bone wall
    1 in corpse explosion
    1 in teeth (pre-req)

    Summon:
    1 in clay golem
    1 in golem mastery
    1 in summon resist
    1 in blood golem (for the life synergy with gumby)
    Rest of skill points divided between raise skeleton/skeleton mastery

    Gear:
    Shako w/poison facet
    Maras
    Bramble
    Death web w/poison facet
    Arach
    Homonculus w/poison facet
    Trang gloves
    Marrowwalks
    Stone of jordan
    Rare ring with faster cast rate, mana and resists
    Annihilus
    5 Poison and bone skillers

    Merc: Nightmare offensive aura (might)
    Ethereal colossus voulge insight
    Ethereal Duress
    Ethereal vampire gaze

    I didnt use the 3 parts trang set like most people because I wanted the most +skills possible, sacrificing a little in poison damage for much stronger minions. Indeed, with the homo/arach combo I have +3 all skills where I would get only 2 in PnB with the trangs. I putted just enough points in raise skeleton to have the next skelly and then putted the rest in skeleton mastery. I choose to not put any points in revives because I wanted a fast character without revives who cant follow and die as they are struck somewhere. Besides, I have enough points in skeleton mastery so my skellie rarely die.

    I also used the marrowalks bug to reinforce my bone armor. For bosses/stronger monsters, I use decrepify/gumby like any other summoner just to keep my minions alive, makes things a lot easier for me. They die rather quickly with my poison (even without lower resist) and crushing blow from my merc (15% from duress).

    Speaking of him, I choose the insight just for non-stop nova casting and quite nice damage. A weapon with crushing blow like Hone sundan or Obedience would make boss killing real faster though if you dont worry about mana regeneration. Its also nice to be able to spam 10 corpse explosion in densely populated areas (cows) without stopping, real fun if you ask me :p . It makes killing monsters so much faster. You just have to wait for the first dead monster then all his friends goes down too in 1 second.

    Last but not least, I choose to have max blocking, which is sine qua none to this build, I honestly think. You dont have many minions to protect you (in my case merc, golem and 7 skellies) and you will likely have low life and defence too, so you need this to stay alive. You can use stuff that gives a boost to dexterity to acheive that (raven, marrows..)

    Well, I hope that this can help you with your questions.

    Zalc
     

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