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Our first abortion thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Anyee, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. Anyee

    Anyee IncGamers Member

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    Our first abortion thread

    An argument today about pro-choice vs. pro-life touched on the topic of young women under the age of 18 needing court permission to get an abortion. One particular sentence struck me, the gist of which is as follows:

    A court order is required to determine whether a girl under 18 is mature enough to get an abortion, but no court order is required to see if she is mature enough to raise a child.

    Which to me begs the question: is a girl deemed too immature to have an abortion fit to have and rear that potential child? Will she be mature enough to get prenatal care, not drink, take vitamins, and so on? Will she be mature enough to turn that child over for adoption using a safe-haven law (which MA doesn't have, unfortunately) or other legal means? Is she mature enough to discipline and teach that child?

    I don't think so. Do you?
     
  2. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    It is a pretty ambiguous statement, isn't it? I agree with you; you can't have it both ways. Anyone mature enough and able enough to parent a child should, by definition, be capable of deciding on the fate of the unborn child as well.
    As a matter of fact, I'd be less inclined to believe that a girl who wants an abortion would be a loving and able parent. Her wish for an abortion would pretty much indicate her reluctance to do what is best for her child, I should think.
     
  3. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    I know of people who would be GREAT mothers who would, at this stage of their life, get an abortion. I dont think it says anything about how they would be as mothers, but more about how they think life exists and if they are ready to give up their life to their child.
     
  4. caddad

    caddad IncGamers Member

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    There is always the option of adoption. The only thing an abortion does is alleviate the inconvenience of being pregnant for 9 months.

    Many young people take the easy way out if that option is available to them. Not all, but many.

    -D2netDad
     
  5. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    If you are a minority, adoption is pretty cruel to the child. Minority children arent exactly in demand.
     
  6. tydon

    tydon IncGamers Member

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    Alas, my entire belief on abortion is that if you treat abortion as a form of birth control, as many do, then you dont deserve to have this right, as you abuse it.

    Mistakes happen, but for those who just think they will have unprotected sex, well, they should have to work 80 hours a week if need be to raise the child well, instead of taking the ez road.
     
  7. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    For myself, I'd be more likely to believe the girl willing to go through with the pregnancy and have the child adopted to be a better potential parent than one who opts for abortion. To me it shows a maturity and empathy that gives points to motherhood.
    Yes, I'm sure many women willing to have an abortion would make great mothers. You know what, though? I wouldn't marry one of them if I knew that, especially if I wanted her to be the mother of my children.
     
  8. caddad

    caddad IncGamers Member

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    Adoption is cruel, maybe, but what about abortion?

    There is a greater demand for healthy babies up for adoption than the supply can meet.

    Adoption may not be right in 'every', or even 'any' case, but it was left out of the original post. It is a valid option and there are loving families out there looking to adopt children, indiscriminantly.

    -D2netDad
     
  9. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    Dad, are you sure about the demand for healthy minority children? I remember hearing that the demand is for healthy white children, and that many minority children were still waiting on homes.
     
  10. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris IncGamers Member

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    I agree that the wording is ambiguous and needs to be changed - and that's a good point to make.

    With regards to abortion, I still continue to fall back to a conservative mind set on this subject as far as abortion as an "oops, I made a mistake" option. I still remain against abortion as a means for birth control - and especially so when it involves a minor where the parents should be involved as it is. Granted, I am full aware that the parents in many cases aren't involved and maybe don't even care... which raises other issues, but it still doesn't deter my mindset from the fact that I don't agree with it.

    ****... incest... or imminent danger to the mother/child are entirely different than convenience or regret in my opinion.

    I agree that adoption should be a viable choice, though I'm not sure about the difference between minority vs. white babies with regards to demand.
     
  11. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    I know a couple who have, so far, adopted a child from India and one from Korea. They belong to some sort of 'adoption' club with outposts all around the country, the members of which are specifically looking to adopt and raise children from minority groups. There are thousands of them, apparently.
    I think the main problem is one of logistics: getting the minority children in touch with the people looking for minority children.
     
  12. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    I am thinking more about blacks or hispanics in this country.
     
  13. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Killing a baby is bad.

    Forcing a woman to have a baby against her will is also bad.

    No idea where I stand on this.

    Something I find odd though.

    They kill the baby before it is legaly a human or something like that because then it doesnt count as murder.

    But if someone kills a pregnant woman then they get trialed for double murder.
     
  14. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris IncGamers Member

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    I agree with you Johnny... and I tend to struggle with this issue on some levels as well. I'm completely for women having the right to choose over their own bodies... but I also firmly believe that a child past a certain point of gestation is, in fact, a human being... so it isn't completely clear-cut.

    However, I also believe in accountability. If a person is "grown up" enough to be engaging in sex, then they should be "grown up" enough to accept the consequences for doing so.
     
  15. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    I understand that. The same applies, whether domestic or overseas. The problem tends to lie with the pregnant mothers; they don't know how to get a baby adopted, if that makes any sense. How to bring their baby's existence to the attention of the right people.
    But indeed, there is a dearth of couples looking for domestic minorities, you are right about that; the tendency seems to be couples looking for 'exotic' babies, like the couple I mentioned previously. Still, they are out there, people who would adopt any baby, desperate as they are for children they can't have.
     
  16. Draconis

    Draconis IncGamers Member

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    From a purely theoretical standpoint (as in I have absolutely no idea about numbers) isn't the expanding use of IVF treatments and similar technological means of conception having an impact on the numbers of prospective parents who are truly without any option other than adoption? I can easily see such advances having a serious impact on the pool of adopters.
     
  17. Choogy

    Choogy IncGamers Member

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    I really agree w/ you there Lunar...

    I hate the idea of abortion. It should not be a choice except in certain cases as lunar describes above. If you made a mistake and got pregnant, I'd say your 1st mistake was ever having sex. Sex is not just procreation, it has a purpose. I hate how its used these days. Damn media...

    I think they should reword the law, maybe add to it...It just doesnt cover all it should...
     
  18. Rigel Kent

    Rigel Kent IncGamers Member

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    I'm fairly centrist when it comes to abortion. I'm pro-choice, but not strongly so, because I believe it is a privacy issue which would be overshadowed by the moral issue once that's resolved.

    So I usually get along with the pro-life crowd. Their arguments are clear, sensible, and respectful of both the diversity of religions and the burdens of childbearing.

    So they only really piss me off when their message turns from respectfully pro-life to short-sightedly anti-choice.

    In the judge's decision you referenced, the anti-choice sentiment which still crops up, here and there, in American policy is well illustrated. Wherever one lawful choice is given undue preference by the government over other lawful choices, no matter how limited the context, an injustice has been done. How can any government say it supports a woman's right to choose, if service providers are required to support that choice asymmetrically?
     
  19. dantose

    dantose IncGamers Member

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    While there are cases where I can see abortion being acceptible (danger to the mother, ****, ect.) I believe third term abortions should not be allowed (unless a new threat to the mother arises during the third term)

    For those who feel they are unfit to be mothers adoption is a good option. The people I know who were adopted are no less happy than those that were born to their parents. (even the minorities)
     
  20. Corneo

    Corneo IncGamers Member

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    Strange enough because last quarter one chick in my English class argued that abortion should only apply to **** or incest. I replied "How are babies concieved thru **** an incest aren't worthly of a chance at life? They aren't equal to other babies according to you?" Dead silence...
     

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