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Osama bin Laden dead?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Leopold Stotch, May 2, 2011.

  1. Knarlfist

    Knarlfist Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    wait... I see Osama in the background of that pic! The dirty mother is drinking beer and partying.

    I knew he wasn't dead, those liars!
     
  2. BobCox2

    BobCox2 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    That's Obama.
     
  3. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    [​IMG]
    like so
     
  4. Stevinator

    Stevinator Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    no, I don't buy it. why now? there's no political advantage this long before the election. there's no way he was on ice, and then brought out now. there's also no way they didn't kill him. if they hadn't, they wouldn't have announced anything.

    If this really was political, they wouldn't bother using it to drown out a nobody like the donald. they'd wait until the real GOP contender surfaced.

    No this was real. Hell, you can tell he wasn't sure he'd get him because Obama went and released his birth certificate. Didn't have to do that, not if you were sure you were about to get osama.
     
  5. Knarlfist

    Knarlfist Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    Well, to be honest... I think many thought there was no way he could get re-elected. And now, it's close enough to the election and made a big enough impact, that this alone could make the difference for him.

    The only way it wouldn't be enough to tip things in favor for him, is if:
    1) He's pissed off enough of his Liberal base over time, and they don't forgive him.
    2) It's the Economy stupid. If things are still looking bleak, and enough Americans feel he didn't do enough of what he could/what he promised he would, then he could lose the election Osama or not.

    All things considered though, killing Osama surely didn't HURT his re-election chances, no matter the exact timing in relation to the election.
     
  6. Technomancer

    Technomancer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    This was far from political. As a political ploy, this would have bore far more fruit this time next year, and people generally can't remember anything for more than a few months (apparently) anyway, so I don't think this will have much impact on the election to be honest. About all this does is when the GOOP try to say Obama < American, he can just say "Bin Laden". It doesn't give him an advantage, it just helps remove one of many lies from the playing field. Same with the birth certificate.
     
  7. Stevinator

    Stevinator Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    um, who thought obama wasn't going to get re-elected? I am not a fan, but I hate to break it to you, the sarah palins and the donald trumps of the world are not going to beat him. Obama polls better against anyone except the vague faceless republican. as soon as they pick a name, obama polls better. right now, he would win re-election.
     
  8. Knarlfist

    Knarlfist Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    I really don't think at all, that it's gonna be Obama vs Palin or Trump down at the wire... but I will agree with you that if it WAS one of them, the voters wouldn't be interested.

    And as for who thought Obama wouldn't get re-elected, I think you are putting too little credit to how bad he has pissed off his base... much like anyone that lies closer to an extreme end of the spectrum than others, they tend not to forget, and to hold a grudge.

    Assuming he gets no Conservative votes, and has pissed enough Liberals off (admittedly by just trying to compromise like he should as a President), then it only takes enough Independents to decide on Healthcare/Economy he hasn't done the job and boom. Some rising star with relative obscurity could sneak in past him.
     
  9. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    I'm not certain that Obama is going to get re-elected, and I don't see how bagging Osama is going to get him there either, unless he was leading the raid himself. Maybe I underestimate the political capital of Osama's death, but I don't see how it saves him from being a terrible president.
     
  10. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    It doesn't. Osama got him a relatively flat bump in the polls. That's not a good sign for those cheering for his re-election. Still, that's not going to stop his machine from trying to make him out to be the lone ranger all the way up to election night.
     
  11. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    Do you believe what you see, or do you believe what you are told? That is the issue for a lot of people.

    Uhh its the other way around. It is the conspiracist who believes in people being reasonable, that of action is causal. To quote Rothbard on revisionism of modern history:

    Far from being a paranoid or a determinist, the conspiracy analyst is a praxeologist; that is, he believes that people act purposively, that they make conscious choices to employ means in order to arrive at goals. Hence, if a steel tariff is passed, he assumes that the steel industry lobbied for it; if a public works project is created, he hypothesizes that it was promoted by an alliance of construction firms and unions who enjoyed public works contracts, and bureaucrats who expanded their jobs and incomes. It is the opponents of "conspiracy" analysis who profess to believe that all events – at least in government – are random and unplanned, and that therefore people do not engage in purposive choice and planning.

    It is no wonder that usually these realistic analyses are spelled out by various "extremists" who are outside the Establishment consensus. For it is vital to the continued rule of the State apparatus that it have legitimacy and even sanctity in the eyes of the public, and it is vital to that sanctity that our politicians and bureaucrats be deemed to be disembodied spirits solely devoted to the "public good." Once let the cat out of the bag that these spirits are all too often grounded in the solid earth of advancing a set of economic interests through use of the State, and the basic mystique of government begins to collapse.



     
  12. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    And if he released the pictures, people would simply claim they were doctored. Lack of proof is proof of a conspiracy, after all. From my standpoint, I don't see what claiming to have killed Bin Laden when he hasn't would buy him. A simple "I'm still here" video from Bin Laden afterwards would utterly ruin his political career.

    I suppose they could have captured him and just said they killed him, but that would mean they still got him, and that would make just as good an announcement. Or they could have found conclusive proof that he had died much earlier, and are simply lying about killing him now to try and take credit for it, but he'd still be dead. And the number of people required to be in on either of these scenarios would make it ripe for a submission to Wikileaks. I just don't see it as a plausible scenario.



     
  13. Shaigon

    Shaigon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    Regardless of whether or not photos are released, there will still be skepticism from the public. It's a lose/lose situation, you're never going to convince everyone.
     
  14. Leopold Stotch

    Leopold Stotch Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    ^ agree. .
     
  15. Technomancer

    Technomancer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    The metric to watch for Obama getting re-elected is unemployment.

    >6% = guaranteed
    7% = decent chance
    8% = less than decent
    9% = probably gone
    10%+ = don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out

    I used to revel in the comedy sketch that is the Republican field, but lately I've been actually feeling rather embarrassed on their behalf. They're better than that, I really hope they can dig up a serious candidate. Mitch Daniels comes to mind, if he didn't have Evan Bayh's anti-charisma and was over 5 ft. tall. :)

    For the conspiracy theories, all I can say is lol.
     
  16. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    If the Republicans can get Gary Johnson past the primaries, I might throw a vote their way.



     
  17. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    Are you talking about the real unemployment number, or the official one? I ask because the official one is 9% right now, but the real number would not surprise me if it were 15% or more. I mean, when you have a million people apply for some sixty thousand jobs flipping big macs, there might be a more serious problem than people think.

    Come to think of it, that adds another layer to the equation, does it not? Someone who used to work at a good, high paying job finds himself lucky to get a job asking people if they want fries with their order probably isn't going to be thanking Obama.



     
  18. Leopold Stotch

    Leopold Stotch Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    very lucky indeed. i've heard stories of places not hiring because the person is "too overqualified." o_O

    Mara and i are lucky to have the jobs we do atm. i tried finding a job, online and in person, and it was hard to do. no one would call me back or they told me they weren't hiring or to go to the website and fill out the application (im starting to wonder how reliable filling applications out online is...) and with Mara it was luck that our friend's place was hiring.

    getting a job once you're done with college is damn lucky too. so far, only two friends have jobs, both in their particular field. and teaching is out! apparently, teachers are being laid off and some are being fired in a ****ty way.


     
  19. Stevinator

    Stevinator Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    the problem with your conspiracy theory is that obama would not gain anything from killing Osama this far out from the election.

    Basically, there's no reason to release this information if we didn't find him. That's just asking from trouble. So we should be able to agree that we found him. Otherwise this whole ruse would be wasted when Al Jazeera releases a video of OBL saying, nope I'm still alive here's picture of me with today's NYT cover.

    That basically leaves two options. Either this went down like they said, or they didn't really kill him, but captured him and are keeping it secret.

    I think it went down like they said, it seems unlikely to me that OBL would allow himself to be captured.

    If you want to go down that road though, let's say our seals pulled some trickery and OBL is locked up in some god forsaken place. fine. same difference to me. let them torture him for info. It's the same difference to everyone. I could see this as a possibilty, if I felt like Obama hadn't been so against that sort of thing. it just doesn't feel like an obama move.
     
  20. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Osama bin Laden dead?

    Imagine a corporation (or Russia, whoever you trust less) told the same thing. That their security department had found Osama and swiftly proceeded to execute him and throw him to the sea at an undisclosed location. No evidence would be provided other than a quiet suburb villa where he supposedly lived. Would you believe them?

    It is no wonder that usually these realistic analyses are spelled out by various "extremists" who are outside the Establishment consensus. For it is vital to the continued rule of the State apparatus that it have legitimacy and even sanctity in the eyes of the public, and it is vital to that sanctity that our politicians and bureaucrats be deemed to be disembodied spirits solely devoted to the "public good." Once let the cat out of the bag that these spirits are all too often grounded in the solid earth of advancing a set of economic interests through use of the State, and the basic mystique of government begins to collapse.
     

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