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Original post: Which places could drop TC 85/87?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by KSechrist, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. KSechrist

    KSechrist IncGamers Member

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    Original post: Which places could drop TC 85/87?

    I'd copied it off to another place for myself & friends, so here it is back despite the board corruption.


    85 Pit Level 1
    85 Pit Level 2
    85 Mausoleum
    85 Maggot Lair Level 3
    85 Ancient Tunnels
    85 Sewers Level 2 (Kurast)
    85 Forgotten Temple
    85 Ruined Fane
    85 Disused Reliquary
    85 River of Flame
    85 Chaos Sanctuary
    85 The Worldstone Keep Level 1
    85 The Worldstone Keep Level 2
    85 The Worldstone Keep Level 3
    85 Throne of Destruction
    85 The Worldstone Chamber

    84 Maggot Lair Level 1
    84 Maggot Lair Level 2
    84 Sewers Level 1 (Kurast)
    84 Ruined Temple
    84 Disused Fane
    84 Forgotten Reliquary
    84 City of the Damned
    84 Drifter Cavern
    84 Halls of Pain
    84 Halls of Vaught

    83 Underground Passage Level 2
    83 Crypt
    83 Claw Viper Temple Level 2
    83 Flayer Dungeon Level 3
    83 Durance of Hate Level 1
    83 Durance of Hate Level 2
    83 Durance of Hate Level 3
    83 Plains of Despair
    83 Frozen River
    83 Glacial Trail
    83 Icy Cellar
    83 Nihlathaks Temple
    83 Halls of Anguish
    83 Infernal Pit

    The 85s - all monsters will be able to drop from TC87 with a "good" chance, and champions and uniques will be able to drop all items.

    84s are not quite as good, all can drop TC87 but with a "small" chance, only uniques can drop all items.

    In the 83s, all monsters can still drop TC87 but some unique items cannot be dropped.
     
  2. dragosbaby

    dragosbaby IncGamers Member

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    I understand it this way.

    All monsters in an area have same level as the area.

    Exceptions

    Champions have area+2 level
    superuniques have area +3 level

    So only champion monsters in 85 areas have the required level to drop all items, and since there are no ? superuniqes in 84 areas, that means that only 85 areas are "good"

    example pindleskin

    resides in area 83 so his level is 83+3=86. That means that he cant drop all items.


    dragosbaby
     
  3. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

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    Nice to have this back. I was looking through the TCx and monStats mpqs and came across something. It seems as though all monsters in areas 83-85 have the same chances to roll the high TCs. Monsters with level 83+ all drop from Act 5 (H) H2H C - which is in turn Act 5 (H) Equip C. Act 5 (H) Equip C gets 3 rolls at TC87, and nothing gets more rolls than that.

    Is it true then that the only difference between a regular monster in an 83area and a regular monster in an 85area is the qLvls they can drop? Seems a bit bizzare to me, am I reading it wrong - anyone have confirmation/correction on this?

    Also I'm interested in knowing how champs/uniques drop. Does a unique monster get a roll on the unique TC, then the champ TC, then the regular TC for that monster type?

    So would it be Act 5 (H) Unique C -> Act 5 (H) Champ C -> Act 5 (H) H2H C for a level 83 unique monster? And if that monster was champ would it start at the champ tc then go to the regular H2H tc?

    Thanks for any clarification between this - I'm trying to evaluate differences between the areas so this table always comes in handy, as would any help someone may have.

    Allow me to edit in a response to the above here.

    Monsters are assigned TCs based on their mLvls. It does not always work out that a level 84 will drop from the TC 83. All monsters from level 83+ have the ability to drop from the highest TC, afaik, correct me if i'm wrong.

    Superuniques work in somewhat similar ways, they have their TCs assigned as well, but drop from a special TC - Act 5 (H) Super Cx in the case of Pindleskin. Act 5 (H) Super Cx links to the Act 5 (H) Equip C which is in effect TC87. So pindleskin can drop from TC87, but his mLvl does not allow him to drop the highest qLvl items, I believe there are three qLvl 87 items that he cannot drop.

    And the formula applies to uniques as well as superuniques.
    It's more easily written as random unique bosses/superuniques have area+3 level
     
  4. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Shadow, I am fairly sure a regular monster has to be mlvl 85 to drop from Act 5 (H) Equip C. It has been reported on occasion that they drop from the first TC in their group with level at least their mlvl, but last I was aware it was confirmed that it is the highest one with level at most their mlvl.

    So regular monsters in level 83 and 84 areas will drop from Act 5 (H) Equip B, which gives (for example) only a 1/1566 of dropping armo87, whereas monsters in areas of level 85 get Equip C which has an 8/1565 chance of dropping armo87.

    That is what I meant when I distinguished "good" and "small" chances of TC87 (the article reposted above was actually taken from one written by me originally).

    Unique and champ monsters just get the one drop from their respective TC. Although, their TCs have fixed drops (you will notice the negative number in the "picks" column in TCx) which lets them drop multiple items.

    I am happy to answer any other questions you may have.
     
  5. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

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    Just a question. Is the monStats.txt file ignored in the new patch?

    I was just looking, and the WarpedFallen - level 83 can drop from Act 5 (H) H2H C. According to TCex, Act 5 (H) H2H C can then procced to drop from Act 5 (H) Equip C. The dismissal of the monStats file is the only explication I can see. Is there another you could provide?

    If it is the case that monStats is ignored, in which archive are TCs assigned to mobs? - or are the TCs assigned to monster levels somewhere else?
     
  6. Stormie

    Stormie IncGamers Member

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    As I understand it:

    monstats.txt is used to determine which group of TCs the monster drops from. So the WarpedFallen for instance have TC 'Act 5 (H) H2H C', which is in group 7, so they will drop from whichever group 7 TC their monster level allows.

    So they wil be scaled to level ** (correct me if I'm wrong but they only ever show in the Throne Of Destruction as Colenzo's minions right? So are level 85 + 3 for being minions), and get the highest TC in group 7 with level at most **. As it happens, that is 'Act 5 (H) H2H C' anyway.

    Really, for Nightmare and Hell, I think the only thing that much matters with the TC in monstats.txt is whether it is 'H2H', 'Cast', 'Wraith' or 'Miss'.
     
  7. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Monstats is not ignored, but it is the first step in an involved process.

    The first key thing to note is that in Nightmare and Hell difficulties, the monstats.txt "level" is overwritten, in almost all cases. Unless "boss" is checked, the monster's mlvl will be changed to the area level, then modified as mentioned above in this thread.

    The next thing that happens is that the monster's TC is looked up in TCEx. If there is another TC in the same "group" with "level" not higher than the monster's mlvl, it will upgrade its TC. TCs do not downgrade this way though.

    So if somehow a Skeleton (skeleton1, nominal level 68, nominal TC Act 1 (H) H2H A) found itself in the Pit (area level 85), the Skeleton's mlvl would be raised to 85, and its TC would upgrade all the way down group 7 to Act 5 (H) H2H C.

    Because of this upgrading, there is a reasonably direct link between area levels at the top end of Hell, and TCs.

    Now you do raise a worthwhile point with the WarpedFallen. Indeed, if they were to show up somewhere earlier, like Bloody Foothills, they would keep their top TC, even though their mlvl would be reduced to the level of the Foothills. However, in their case the only place they can ever show up is as Colenzo's minions in Baal's throne room. That is level 85 anyway, so their TC is not out of place. I have not seen an example of a monster that can show up "too early for its TC" yet.

    [edit] man, that's about the third time today I've posted an almost identical answer just after someone else. I gotta learn to type faster :)
     
  8. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

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    Thank you so much Stormie, Thrugg. I'm terribly sorry I had you type it out a third time but I've been trying to clarify that bit about TC selection for some time. I am always fascinated by how things work and this really helps. Thanks again.
     
  9. AFBrat

    AFBrat IncGamers Member

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    I could be wrong but I think The Hole in Act 1 Black Marsh is Lvl 83 also, I find some nice stuff there.

    Another good example is NM Diablo, who can drop some normal, magic, or rare elite items but he can't drop any elite uniques since his Mlvl is below the ilvl of any elite unique.
     
  10. Stormie

    Stormie IncGamers Member

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    Nope, it's level 80 & 81 (for the two levels of The Hole).

    So the normal monsters there can drop up to weap78 and armo78. However, the random bosses there can drop from any TC, and since they're much more likely to drop rares/sets/uniques than the normal monsters, you will still find some nice stuff there, no question about it.
     
  11. KSechrist

    KSechrist IncGamers Member

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    In no means did I mean to imply that I wrote that. It was originally posted here and I stole it and just re-posted to preserve the info on this board. I'm sure Thrugg's right in that he wrote it. I just copied it out and back. :)
     

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