Orb/Tk or Mete/Orb

[TheDarkSide]

Orb/Tk or Mete/Orb

Im debating making the Orb / Tk version in this new ladder as Iv'e always gone MeteOrb before . Question is can I solo most areas with the Orb/Tk as well as the MeteOrb can ? I like to run Pindle , Eldritch , Shenk , Andy , and Meph , and if I get froggy Baal . One element doesnt sound appealing for this so Im not sure . Anyone run Baal's with a Tk sorc with any success ??

 

[STINGER]

Baals Minions will give you a bit of an issue, but I wouldnt solo run Baal anyway its slow.

Orb will do all the normal framing places though, Andy, Meph, Pindle....Eldritch and Shenk will be a "spawn to spawn" thing although something is telling me that Eldritch and his pack may be CI....Shenk might be also. I only ran Meph/Andy/Pindle and some of the 85 areas on my Blizz Sorcs. The Act 2 85 areas isnt bad, its one of the tunnels forget the name.

 

[TheDarkSide]

Yea , I guess I'll just go with an ol reliable MeteOrb again as it's tried and true . I just wanted to try something different really . Maybe after I farm a bit I'll just make both versions and see which I like the most .

Btw - thanks for the Pm - I tried to reply but your box is full ...

:thumbsup:

 

[AgentMarth]

I ran just about everything needed with my ES/Orber. The only tricky part was Baal's Minions second wave, the CI skeletons. He kept dieing to them because the lack of leech, so I put a tap wand on switch and it helped tremendously.

I found that having a tap wand for him on my switch, while maybe sacrificing MF, helped his survivability, which in turn helps mine seeing as how his help with my life and Mana regeneration was much helpful (Prayer Merc with Insight).

She had only ~150 MF I believe, Ist'd Wizzy, Shako, Gheeds, 40 Chancies, but she was the safest character I have ever played since she had ~1.1k Life, ~950 Mana, Max Block, ~80% ES, 80/75/85/75 res, PDR, MDR, 10%DR, 42 FHR BP, and 63% FCR all while still being able to MF just fine and safe. She commonly did Countess, Andy, Summoner, Trav, Mephy, Pindle, and Baal.

Just try to give your Merc some source of CBF for those CI's were you need him, Duriel's Shell works quite nice, then a high damage polearm with IAS for when hes got Decrp on him, Then some LL helm, my favorite is Vampire Gaze.

So In short, I say try the ES/Orber

 

[PhatTrumpet]

Orb/TK isn't meant for all that stuff. I'm not saying the build can't do all that stuff, it just isn't as proficient as other builds are.

Orb/TK is meant to get you through Nightmare safely with one eye closed and both hands tied behind your back. You run NM Meph until you can't stand it anymore, then you run Hell Andy and/or Meph until you're semi-rich. The only problem is getting to lvl 30, and for you, much like for me, it is a significant problem as we prefer to quest through rather than just get rushed and power-leveled.

I wanted to start this season with an Orb/TK so I could run Meph ASAP like most people do, but I wasn't around for the first few days of the reset and couldn't possibly get to lvl 30 on my own in any reasonable amount of time, so I made a Barb and found enough crap to gear up a Meteorb so that I could quest myself through without feeling the need to gouge my own eyes out. She may not end up being able to run Hell Meph or Baal very well, but she will be able to run Hell Andy. Eventually, when I get sick of building chars from scratch, I'll probably build an Orb/TK and get rushed, but only if I have the typical Meph-running gear. Then later on, if I get some higher-end gear, I'll probably remake the Meteorb for soloing Baal, general rushing purposes, etc.

Ultimately though, if you don't plan to do a whole lot of dedicated Meph-running, you probably won't get much use out of an Orb/TK.

 

[Full_Circle]

Im debating making the Orb / Tk version in this new ladder as Iv'e always gone MeteOrb before . Question is can I solo most areas with the Orb/Tk as well as the MeteOrb can ? I like to run Pindle , Eldritch , Shenk , Andy , and Meph , and if I get froggy Baal . One element doesnt sound appealing for this so Im not sure . Anyone run Baal's with a Tk sorc with any success ??

What you can or cannot do with an Orb/TK sorc is largely going to depend on your gear. For the most part, you won't be able to run Eldritch/Shenk (at least not efficiently), but everything else, you can do.

I despise Meteorb. There are 3 points to the sorc build triangle - Potency, Survivability, and Versatility. Meteorb sacrifices both potency and survivability for a bit of versatility, something that's generally a bad idea in HC. Blizz/TK is a strong build for what you want to do (except Eldritch/Shenk), giving you decent potency and good survivability. IF you absolutely must run E/S, I'd look into Orb/TK/Firewall (FW/FM replacing Tele). You'll gain a little of the versatility of Meteorb without sacrificing all of your survivability.

That's all. Good luck.

 

[STINGER]

Blizz/Glacial/TK with Defensive Merc is what I always went with in 1.10. Farms the places I wanted to farm and lives very well with Max Block and your "basic good sorc gear" Wizzy/Whitstans/Viper. Blizz also allows you to stay at a longer range when you have crap gear or want to have more MF lowering resists.

I never did MetOrb, it just looked less survivable.......

 

[Relativity]

I despise Meteorb. There are 3 points to the sorc build triangle - Potency, Survivability, and Versatility. Meteorb sacrifices both potency and survivability for a bit of versatility, something that's generally a bad idea in HC. Blizz/TK is a strong build for what you want to do (except Eldritch/Shenk), giving you decent potency and good survivability. IF you absolutely must run E/S, I'd look into Orb/TK/Firewall (FW/FM replacing Tele). You'll gain a little of the versatility of Meteorb without sacrificing all of your survivability.

That's all. Good luck.

WHAT?!

What's not potent about a 500 damage orb and an 8k fireball??
Heck, my meteorb from last season ran nith without dying, though many of the close calls came from snake or undead guy charges... but any sorc is going to dislike those.

You don't need max ES to survive hardcore with a sorc.

But I wouldn't recommend meteorb to start with.

 

[TheDarkSide]

Iv'e always made MeteOrbers as they are the ones that I can solo the best with . Thanks for the tips though - if I get lucky this ladder and make that elusive Infinity I might give a 200 fcr lightning sorc a shot ...


:laugh:

 

[MoUsE_WiZ]

WHAT?!

What's not potent about a 500 damage orb and an 8k fireball??
Heck, my meteorb from last season ran nith without dying, though many of the close calls came from snake or undead guy charges... but any sorc is going to dislike those.

You don't need max ES to survive hardcore with a sorc.

That's not quite his point.
Your 500 dmg orb and 8k fireball are deadly, but they've got nothing on a 10k blizzard.
You might have run nil without dying, but that doesn't make you anywhere NEAR as survivable as an orb/tk sorc.

You're sacrificing the damage of a single element build, and the survivability of a TK centered build, for versatility.

Admitedly it is some very nice versatility, CS runs were cake with my orb/fb sorc last season, but at the same time she couldn't solo baals as fast as my orb/tk sorc because she DID have to take things a bit slower... the speed gained on the second wave just wasn't worth it.

But to each their own, we all know my favourite build by this point I'm sure ^^

Ultimately though, if you don't plan to do a whole lot of dedicated Meph-running, you probably won't get much use out of an Orb/TK.

I'd disagree.
I rushed just as well with Orb/FB as I did with Orb/TK, and as mentioned I found baals to be quicker. You aren't killing as well, but since you're a tank you don't need to kill as much either.

 

[Relativity]

That's not quite his point.
You might have run nil without dying, but that doesn't make you anywhere NEAR as survivable as an orb/tk sorc.

Sure it does. Just because a sorc doesn't have ES does not mean they are a glass cannon. A well built meteorb could probably solo baal twice as fast as an orb/tk, depending on how many cold immunes there are, or how strong the orb/tk's merc is... but then again, I've never tried solo baaling with a pure orb, so I have nothing to compare it to...

 

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Just because a sorc doesn't have ES does not mean they are a glass cannon.

Any gear you put on, the orb/tk sorc can put on as well.
And then they have ~75% ES on top of that.

You don't have near the survivability.

You can be very durable, but it's just not in the same ballpark.

 

[Relativity]

Any gear you put on, the orb/tk sorc can put on as well.
And then they have ~75% ES on top of that.

You don't have near the survivability.

You can be very durable, but it's just not in the same ballpark.

I'm not saying that the ES sorc isn't more of a tank that a meteorb, because obviously it is. Regardless, any pack that can kill a meteorb is likely to kill a orb sorc as well, except for the fact that the orb sorc will have a buffer which may or may not allow her to escape.

Meteorbs will "survive" just as much as any other sorc when equipped properly.

 

[MoUsE_WiZ]

I'm not saying that the ES sorc isn't more of a tank that a meteorb, because obviously it is.

That's the point. Right there.

No one is saying that you become a glass cannon when you ditch ES, just that you give up some amount of survivability.

They're also not saying you become incapable of killing when you ditch synergies for orb, just that you give up some amount of killing power in a number of situations.

So you're giving up some survivability, and you're giving up some killing power, and you're gaining some versatility (I've soloed everything in the game minus ubertrist+generals with orb/tk, so it's not entirely lacking in this department either, just like meteorb isn't entirely lacking in survivability).

Regardless, any pack that can kill a meteorb is likely to kill a orb sorc as well, except for the fact that the orb sorc will have a buffer which may or may not allow her to escape.

It depends on the mobs in question.
Gloams laugh at ES, and depend almost 100% on your gear.

On the other hand, I don't believe a build exists that tanks doll explosions better than ES. That goes for any character. 8k life wolf barbs included. This is because the mobs are dead when your ES drops, so the fact that it's dropped doesn't leave you vulnerable to more massive amounts of damage.

Frenzytaurs are in the category of "it's a buffer that might allow you to escape, but might not" because once that buffer is gone, if they're still there, if they were going to kill you one way they'll kill you the other way too. However, it IS still a buffer that gets you a couple seconds to port/flux/juv/tp... don't focus on the "might not" part ^^

But like I said, I don't want to argue sorc builds... especially not with people who probably already know my feelings on the subject. I just want to make sure Orb/TK is represented ^^

 

[Relativity]

I understand what you're saying.

The only qualm I had was with your statement:

You might have run nil without dying, but that doesn't make you anywhere NEAR as survivable as an orb/tk sorc.

Which simply wasn't true.
I'm very experienced with both builds, and while yes the ES will let you tank more, it has little to do with the overall survivability of your character.

 

[MoUsE_WiZ]

I'm very experienced with both builds, and while yes the ES will let you tank more, it has little to do with the overall survivability of your character.

Ok then, tanking vs actual survivability which is demonstrated by the fact that a character is still alive then?

I think that, from my perspective, it is mostly about play style that we are talking about then.
I consider orb to be "survivable" rather than "a tank" when compared to meteorb because as a tank, I can get into situations where I would normally die (eg lol, silly dolls think I'm afraid to kill you while you're that close?! EAT ORB!!!!!!11) with another build and survive.

But you're right, if you play in such a way as to avoid those situations with meteorb you're equally survivable because you're equally alive.

I don't like the build because you have to kill so much.
I think other people like it because you can kill so much.

That sound fair?

 

[STINGER]

give me 5% more chance to get out of the worst possibly situation you can think of and that is all I need to say ES builds are more survivable, and I think its obvious they have better than 5% chance more with ES than without.

 

[TheDarkSide]

My up and coming MeteOrb just got PK'ed by Diablo !!!

:thumbsup:


Damnit it to hell !! I realise a Tk has more survivability but being that I solo a lot I like the comfort of having two trees , yet Im thinking I just might give that Tk a shot . Im sure that if I had been a Tk sorc Id still be alive as I had Diablo beat but my LR was only 42 and got caught in a hose ....

Grrrrrr decisions , decisions !!!!


:scratch:

 

[Full_Circle]

WHAT?!

What's not potent about a 500 damage orb and an 8k fireball??

Against most of Baal's minions, 8k fireball is useless, and 500 damage orb is agonizingly slow.

I wasn't suggesting that Meteorb lacks potency compared to Orb/TK, just that it lacks potency for Baaling in general. Make a Blizz sorc (with or without TK), and you'll see more than a little difference. My Orb/TK/Firewall Sorc had just over 1k Orb at one point, and it STILL killed minions slow compared to Blizzard.

I guess what build you go with depends on your playing style, though, and probably more importantly, what you want to do with the character. If you want your sorc to do "everything," I guess you need two elements. I prefer to have a sorc that does fewer things and does them well.

I'm very experienced with both builds, and while yes the ES will let you tank more, it has little to do with the overall survivability of your character.

Of course it does. There is this little thing floating around that kills all the softies... what's it called?

OH! Lag! Without TK, your character is less survivable, because they don't have that extra buffer against lag.

 

[STINGER]

My up and coming MeteOrb just got PK'ed by Diablo !!!

:thumbsup:


Damnit it to hell !! I realise a Tk has more survivability but being that I solo a lot I like the comfort of having two trees , yet Im thinking I just might give that Tk a shot . Im sure that if I had been a Tk sorc Id still be alive as I had Diablo beat but my LR was only 42 and got caught in a hose ....

Grrrrrr decisions , decisions !!!!


:scratch:

Tk or no TK 42 LR vs him is going to kill a youngling Sorc bud!

I NEVER go after Diablo on a low life caster without max Fire and Light......3 socket Act 2 shopped shield with Rubies and Topaz FTW, or by Fire gear in Act 4 and load up Topaz in the shield, they always sell fire rez items in Act 4. You can also normally have a few runes to use especially if you do some Countess work which i normally do especialy to get that newbie rune armor with nice bonuses for casters, forget name....

Another good way to do things is simply level up above 30 before doing Diablo. In full games you can get big EXP running the council, river, most of act 3...etc. It not as easy trying to make an orber, but another way to do it is look for staves to give you other skills like Glacial Spike or Blizzard (think its possible to get those?) Make sure you dont out level your Merc so he can help you also.....You loose alot if you get in a hurry....low lvl merc, poor resists, pass up on shopping up something good, not gambling.......lvl 24 is a good gamble level man.....belts/boots/glooves........