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Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ziambe, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I've been reading the numerous threads that discuss the polearm choices for infinity and I'd like to get some anecdotal, single-player specific opinions.

    It seems like its hard to argue against a thresher but since this is probably the only infinity I will ever make, I'd like to get a family friendly stick that can help as many characters and builds as possible.

    1: Eth or not? I can't really think of a reason not to go eth because even if I use a character that carries the stick, I don't know of any builds that would actually swing it, so it would never lose durability right? Traps can't hurt the weapon can they?

    2: For those who have carried the stick with
    -any sorc build
    -an ele druid [especially want to hear about that one]
    -maybe a necro,
    -foher/avenger
    -trapper [i don't know if this is viable, do traps benefit from -elr?]
    what was your experience? The lower requirements seem to be the most popular reason for a thresher rather than a giant thresher or great poleaxe but the extra levels the merc would need don't really deter me.

    3: Again, for those who have tried carrying the stick, how do you feel about Magechick's analysis? In other words, which is more important: Doing extra damage to immunes because you carry infinity or doing extra damage to non-immunes because you have more +skills and +Lskill damage from an eschuta's or hoto/spirit?

    4: Since range is fixed for the merc and we've discussed requirements the only other difference between sticks that I know of [besides damage] are the ias breakpoints. So are the differences in ias breakpoints and resulting dps compelling enough to merit the giant thresher or gpa?

    5: The other extreme...Scythe/Voulge (Specifically for Baal runs) If I put the infinity in a normal polearm to save stats would the the -elr boost static field and/or Lskill dmg enough for an infinity-wielding character to make up for the loss of damage from the merc on another character who uses a merc-wielding infinity?

    6: What about an exceptional base as a middle ground? Not too high req and still some dps for merc-wielder...

    7: Can I give the merc a crescent moon to stack -elr even more? Do merc and player -elr stack after an immunity has been broken/or against a non-immune monster?

    8: A lot of people seem to vouch for cryptic axe, how does it compare?
     
  2. EatSleepDiablo

    EatSleepDiablo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Personally, I have made two, both eth. One in a GPA, the other in a Partizan. The latter is used when I run cows, so my merc doesnt kill the CK when I am distracted. It was made in response to precisely that.

    Bers are still expensive, but not like before. If I ever make an infinity build like Thy's Atil, it will not take too long to find the necessary runes. I would still use an elite base, however...
     
  3. Tanksaabas

    Tanksaabas Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I think there is one infinity in the spf in a normal base item , used by a tesladin at one point. Worked just fine , and its easy to use it with other characters and not worry about the stat requirements that much.
     
  4. sylecn

    sylecn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    You should know that -elr on merc doesn't affect your lightning skill damage at all, be it Crescent Moon or Infinity. It is the aura that boosts your damage.
     
  5. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I was aware of this, I just thought that maybe if we both have items with -elr it is cumulative but I guess not.


     
  6. Arkardo

    Arkardo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I personally went with an ethereal Tresher and never looked back. Sure, you can go with a non-ethereal one, but only a handful builds at best can make use of it, and even then there are (better?) alternatives.

    You can go with a low requirement one for a lightning Sorceress that wields it herself, but from what I've read, they're considered inferior than one that has her merc wield it.
     
  7. bcoe

    bcoe Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I have two. One in an ethereal thresher (for the merc to hold), and one in a normal Voulge (for sorcs to hold). If I had to have only one, I would make it in an ethereal elite polearm. My preference is threshers, but others have merit too.

    All the most common uses for infinity involve having the merc hold it. On a merc, it works wonders for sorceresses (especially lightning, obviously), lite zons, necros (for the CE boost), assassins (either traps or elemental martial artists), elemental zealots, fire druids, etc.

    For all of these (except for trappers, where the mechanics are different), I would focus on getting extra -ELR on your gear for the broken immune monsters. My fastest and safest lightning sorceress has the merc carry infinity, and she wears Griffons and carries Crescent Moon. She still has 120FCR and 86FHR. She is much faster against broken immunes than one with Griffons as the only source of -ELR. Both kill non-immunes faster than you can even notice them. There is no measurable difference between 25k damage with (-50 ELR) and 34k damage with (-15 ELR) against non-immunes, but the former is MUCH faster against those whose lite-immunity is broken by infinity.

    Regarding the infinity voulge, I've built a few sorcs who carry it. They are fast and powerful too, but not more so. The play-style is subtly different, and I'm glad I've done it. If I had to choose, though, I'd just make the merc-stick.

    I wasn't particularly interested in making one for a melee'er to carry on their own (e.g. a tesladin). I just can't imagine that it would be much better than CM and either the merc or the pally himself providing the conviction. If thats a build you are interested in, though, go for it.
     
  8. Pijus

    Pijus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    I made mine in a non-eth Thresher. I'm very satisfied with it, including how much damage the merc does. I haven't made a character who carries the stick himself yet.

    I think in the end it doesn't matter what base you chose as long as it an elite polearm. You'll get conviction either way, and the merc will do good damage. Differences in speed or damage ranges aren't going to make or break anything.
     
  9. zoo

    zoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Since I am in love with the Nova sorc build I would definitely make Infinity in a normal polearm (eth or non eth). Nova could definitely use a damage boost, but to me a ES + Nova sorc is the ultimate sorceress in D2. With high mana and max warmth you will be totally independent of mercs (with the exception of being unable to kill a lightning immune boss here and there) wich is an important thing for me.

    Having said that, with the dawn of 1.13, there is no IM for the Oblivion Knights to infect your merc with, so I can see no other real use for Infinity in a normal weapon than for a sorceress specializing in Nova.
    I haven't built a sorc around the other lightning skills yet, but my impression is that you benefit more from the merc carrying the infinity when working with Lightning and Chain Lightning since he will be right in the pack of enemies you will be fighting meaning the Conviction aura will cover more of the enemies you are planning to kill.
     
  10. baqarah

    baqarah Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    When I get my hands on two Bers, Ill make my Infi in 1.07 eth Thresher. Fast, crazy damage and awesome style points.
     
  11. nurman

    nurman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Eth Thresher. No matter if it's pre or post patch. Fast and big damage fork.
     
  12. jdkerr

    jdkerr Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    If you are already making six copies of the darn runeword, just Zod-bug your silly eth weapon and have done with it. :p
     
  13. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    This is more general, but does anyone else use 'sub optimal' runeword bases? For example, I hate 'zerker axes because they look like toys, so I've never used one. I love the look that heavy armor gives, so I like to make armors in Kraken Shells (cheapest STR armor with the 'heavy' look on most chars).
     
  14. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Where did you get that crazy idea?


     
  15. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Paladin builds are the main candidates for swinging the stick. Elemental Zealots, Avengers, nice weapon for a Tesladin. It's too slow for Fireclaws Bears/Wolves. I suppose you could use it on an enchantress too.

    Thresher has a good balance of requirements and damage. To be honest, not many monster last long enough to worry about the merc damage. The exception is FI/LI Lister. My merc can solo him at /P8 with Fortitude, using an eth Thresher Infinity.
    Traps are considered minions, so you get no benefit from holding the stick yourself, but you loose a whole load of +skills.

    It depends where you run. If you will be doing general questing, I like holding the Infinity. You will fry non LIs quickly anyway, what makes the difference is how fast you can fry normally LI minsters. If you are running an area with no LIs or doing Baal runs, it is probably better on the Merc. It can be difficult with the range of the conviction aura though - monsters get much closer to you and you have no blocking. If you do decide to hold the stick though, it's an easy gear swap for a Crescent Moon Crystal Sword and Spirit, depending on the situation. Lightning is more spammable if you hold it yourself as you can give the merc Insight. (Persephone)

    Merc damage keeps him leeching and therefore alive, it won't significantly add to your damage output. GPA is worth considering, but the requirements on a Giant Thresher are not good for mercs.

    I wouldn't consider anything other than an elite for you first Infinity. If you have 2 spare Bers later then maybe go for it. For me the choice was only eth/non-eth Thresher.



     
  16. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Thanks maxicek, I really appreciate your analysis. So if the GPA is worth considering, how come you opt away from the GT? A naked act 2 NM can't equip a GPA until level 81 (merc guide), but at that level he already has enough dex for the GT, so if you can get him something that adds 9 str or simply level to 86 he could swing the GT.

    Then if you add in the fact that an eth version of these reduces the str/dex requirements by 10 and brings the levels at which a naked merc could equip these to down from 81 and 86 to 75 and 81, respectively. I don't think there is a big enough difference that if I was going to make the jump from Thresher to GPA, I might as well go for the GT...

    So far we've seen lots of support for the family favorite thresher...is there anyone who can make a nice case for the heavier sticks?
     
  17. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    between gpa, thresher and cryptic, the highest DPS depends on specifically which other gear your merc uses. For example - with ias andy and fort, it is cryptic(assuming ~600 cb damage which approximates differentiated total cb damage over the life of a monster of 12k life)
     
  18. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Why do these items benefit a CA more than a GT?


     
  19. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Andariel's is nice but I don't like it on Baal runs as (even with a Ral) the -fire resist gets him shredded by Hydra's. I use:
    - Tal's Crest 'Shael'
    - Fortitude
    - Infinity eThresher

    on my trapper and he seems to survive pretty well.

    Stop stalling, make the Infinity eth Thresher and post a readout!
     
  20. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Opinion wanted: Infinity Base

    Theres not much between them - all depends on what ias bp a specific combo of items happens to get and what life monster youre up against, here is my simulation anyway:

    infi merc with andy 15 ias and fort, might merc:
    cb damage to regular monster: 0.25*0.4*6000(12k life monster at half life as an estimation)=600

    manual calculation:
    cb damage to regular monster: 0.25*0.4*6000(12k life monster at half life as an estimation)=600
    merc ED: 1(base) +.60 (lvl 26 jab) + 2.3 (str with andy) + 2.6(might lvl 23)=6.5
    merc ED with fort: 1(base) +.60 (lvl 26 jab) + 2.3 (str with andy) + 2.6(might lvl 23)+3(fort) =9.5

    Infi dmg:
    eth CA 15 ed: 91.5*1.5*4.4=603, with CB and ED 603*9.5+600=6328.5, DPS: 6328.5*25/6=26369
    eth giant thresher 15 ed: 77*1.5*4.4=508, with CB and ED 508*9.5+600=5427, DPS: 5427*25/5.5=24668

    Treachery setup
    eth giant thresher 15 ed: 77*1.5*4.4=508, with CB and ED 508*6.5+600=3902, DPS: 3902*25/4.5=21678

    Conclusion: If you want highest DPS, use eth ca infy, andy 15 ias, fort



     

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