On the rights of unwilling fathers:

[Johnny]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

If I was a woman and was raped I would have that baby just out of spite. You think spending a couple of years in prison taking it up the keister from big minorities hurt. Wait until you get out and have to pay child support for 18 years for a kid that hates you guts and is probably going to confront and beat the **** out of you for his 20th birthday.

 

[zodiac66]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

If I was a woman and was raped I would have that baby just out of spite. You think spending a couple of years in prison taking it up the keister from big minorities hurt. Wait until you get out and have to pay child support for 18 years for a kid that hates you guts and is probably going to confront and beat the **** out of you for his 20th birthday.

Having children out of spite is never a good idea for the children. Think of how that child would grow up...knowing they were a tool for a spiteful vendetta.

 

[Johnny]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

Having children out of spite is never a good idea for the children. Think of how that child would grow up...knowing they were a tool for a spiteful vendetta.

Well you could still raise it properly and tell the kid it was all for love.

 

[stillman]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

Is it just me or has AJ's making an *** of himself quotient gone up exponentially in the last year or so?

Is this what happens when law students graduate?

Yes it is, because I suspect he and I are both in student loan land right now. We have to deal with the harsh realities, and maybe sometimes we show this in our postings...the brutal truths and cold hard realities out there.

I was in a pretty bad mood last time I posted, but I'll make a better effort to be less negative from now on...no smiley faces though.

I just find it hard to accept all the doctor bashing that goes on sometimes in these sorts of debates. Doctors have to respond to the realistic situations that are out there. It's not like they're murderous monsters who use slege hammers to set things right, and they should not be categorized as such.

People are over eager to lable people as baby killers. Well, no one should ever blame the doctor for providing a safe method to deal with the problem. Who can you blame, really? The father? The mother? These are robots who can't help themselves, they are slaves to their hormones which they don't understand. Not everyone is blessed with education, and some people get pregnant by accident. They are not all great visionaries either. Is it the government's fault for not ensuring every last person is educated enough to supress their desires to procreate in the first place? Well even if there were money to teach everyone, some people would turn it down out of free choice. You can't call anyone a baby killer, really, in these situations.

The truth is, with so many billions of people, there are going to many casualties. I don't see what is so bad about abortion if the child is certain to starve to death anyway. How would YOU rather go? A quick death in your sleep or a torturous one?

 

[zodiac66]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

I think the whole pious AJ and intelligent Anyee was due to some even that happened quite a few years ago.

My vote is on Anyee.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

Wife > child.

I'm not less of a man for saying it.

Well, yes. And a person who eats vegetables is a vegetable eater, by definition.

Odd how killing the baby is wrong but killing the mother apparently isn't.

personally, based on my views, that really disturbs me. unfortunately, the world is full of humans that disturbs other humans. i'm sure my view of child > female disturbs u. for the life of me i can't understand how a female can be more precious than a child. i'm sure u can some how explain perfectly clear to u that the life of a female is more precious than a child. i can explain perfectly clearly how a child is more precious than a female, and i'm sure for the life of u, u can't understand, just as i can't understand.

i have NEVER said it is alright to kill the mother. "aborting" the mother is just as much murder to me as is "aborting" a baby. i'm saying that if one is to die during a bad pregnancy/labor/birth, than, for me, it's the baby who lives/saved and the mother/wife who dies. it's a terrible situation, and it's a shame that one or both is going to die due to it, but again, for me, i as a human being with *MY* values/morals/goodness have to choose the baby to live, otherwise, in my view, that would make me inhuman/crminal/evil and that is NOT something i can live with.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

I think the whole pious AJ and intelligent Anyee was due to some even that happened quite a few years ago.

My vote is on Anyee.

any other skeletons in the closet we need to raise?

like abortion?

Hege: it's a difficult situation, you are the criminal either way! you may consider the child murder to be a bigger crime and therefore "murdering" the mother will make you a smaller criminal, but as long as you make a choice, there's no escaping!

in my eyes this is something you have to live with and get beat up by your conscience forever because of it

i'm just relieved that this will never happen to me! it's too unlikely

 

[PFSS]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

i'm sure my view of child > female disturbs u. for the life of me i can't understand how a female can be more precious than a child.

At least you are open about your belief that women are inherently of less value than other humans.

 

[BobCox2]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

So your not Male and Heterosexual !AmebAdger?

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

I'm male and heterosexual.

i said this won't likely happen to me because it's very likely that whoever i will marry will be someone who is NOT going to get killed because of giving birth... (not saying i will check the female for this probability, but saying that this is just unlikely and will never happen in a normal life!)

now if that ever happened i would NOT make a choice between the two, i would find the next persons legitimate enough to choose and let consensus/the person affected choose (the mother herself, relatives, ...) or i would hope that things would work out and delay the choice until it's too late to make a choice

so all in all the probability of it ever coming to me making that kind of choice is extremely low, now you understand ?

now respond, plz mr. bobcox and confirm that you would not just throw the assumption of me being a female homosexual at me and leave it there

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

I'd love to see someone try a defense of fraud. That is, they only consented to the act because there was an implied representation that it would not lead to pregnancy (e.g., oral sex).

Doesn't matter AJ. The standard is the best interests of the child. Hell, for a lot of children that would mean fraudulently convincing a decent man he was the father would be a good thing. :thumbup:

 

[Anyee]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

now respond, plz mr. bobcox and confirm that you would not just throw the assumption of me being a female homosexual at me and leave it there

Dude, if he just called you a lesbian, that means you get to make out with other lesbians! As you know from TV, they are all hot and randy all the time!! Lucky you. :thumbsup:

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

At least you are open about your belief that women are inherently of less value than other humans.

not quite right about me

here's the "value order" for me:

MOST VALUABLE

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) female child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) male child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

my wife

adult female (any age of adulthood. 18-death of old age)

old adult male (~25-death of old age)

18- ~25 adult males

me

LEAST VALUABLE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have many more relationships with humans, of course, but that would get far too messy, including parents, siblings, relatives, friends, etc...

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

not quite right about me

here's the "value order" for me:

MOST VALUABLE

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) female child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) male child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

my wife

adult female (any age of adulthood. 18-death of old age)

old adult male

18- ~25 adult males

me

LEAST VALUABLE

That's pretty silly. If you really cared about random strangers more than yourself you wouldn't be posting here, you would be working to help them.

My priority list:

me
those I care about
my stuff
everyone else

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

whether u think it's silly or not, that WAS/IS my "value order".

if u don't like it, than by all means, have a different "value order" for yourself.

 

[WildBerry]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

Dude, if he just called you a lesbian, that means you get to make out with other lesbians! As you know from TV, they are all hot and randy all the time!! Lucky you. :thumbsup:

Wut wut, why the sarcastic tone? Don't tell me you aren't? Have I been deceived all these years?

O the hueg manatee!

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

for the life of me i can't understand how a female can be more precious than a child.

Because she's a self-aware person with feelings and ideas that intrigued me enough to fall in love with her and want to spend the rest of my life with her, and the child doesn't know what his nose is, much less what life and death means are or what kind of person they want to be.

Sure, the child is innocent, but so is a dog (actually, that's a bit unfair to dogs; they know where their nose is). In a choice between the two, I'll take the one that's a sure bet: the one that I know and love.

And on a side (but related) note, I think we put way too much emphasis on our kids over our partners these days. If/when I ever have kids, they are going to understand that my wife takes priority.

for me, i as a human being with *MY* values/morals/goodness have to choose the baby to live, otherwise, in my view, that would make me inhuman/crminal/evil and that is NOT something i can live with.

That's what I don't get. Allowing the baby to die is a horrible crime to you, but allowing the mother to die is just "a bad situation".

 

[WildBerry]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

Because she's a self-aware person with feelings and ideas that intrigued me enough to fall in love with her and want to spend the rest of my life with her, and the child doesn't know what his nose is, much less what life and death means are or what kind of person they want to be.

So you're not big on the whole "selfish gene" adage? According to that, you should always pick the kid (with no prospect of further breeding; I realise this caveat might make the system collapse) because he shares genes half of her with you, while your wife in all probability does less so.

I realise it's a silly thing to bring to a discussion so permeated with feelings, I just thought it peculiar that a sentimental debate skips the whole "blood is thicker than water" issue.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

woot, "selfish gene" adage XD

getting all genetical and inhumanely rational now?

seriously, i do hope metaphysics rule this thread, otherwise i'd have to confirm my belief that diii.net community consists of mostly over-rational people

 

[PFSS]

Re: On the rights of unwilling fathers:

here's the "value order" for me:

MOST VALUABLE

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) female child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

ANY/ALL (of course my child is most valuable) male child (any young age. from conception to 18. closer to conception, more valuable. closer to 18, less valuable)

my wife

adult female (any age of adulthood. 18-death of old age)

old adult male (~25-death of old age)

18- ~25 adult males

me

LEAST VALUABLE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have many more relationships with humans, of course, but that would get far too messy, including parents, siblings, relatives, friends, etc...

Given you clearly view women as little more than incubators I have difficulty believing this is a real assessment of your values, though it may be one you honestly believe.

Also - given that if you killed yourself and donated all your organs you could save the lives of half a dozen people or more, why are you still here if the life of even one other person is of more value than your own?