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Ok...Settle this debate

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by HarbingersOfSkulls, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls Diabloii.Net Member

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    Ok...Settle this debate

    Which one would you perfer?

    Act1 fire rogue with fort/andy's or giant skull/faith

    or

    Act2 nm might with fort/andy's/infinity or pride *or another runeword.

    I was in a game where 3 summoning necro's got into a heated debate over this...two of them was going to be using the act1 merc setup with faith while there character will be using a hoto. The other is using a beast.

    The one's with the fire rogue claimed that with faith the skeletons will kill much quicker and be alot more effective and die alot less than a act2 merc...especially in hell when they get there.

    The other necro (besides always saying w/e) that even with beast his horde will still be effective enough and with infinity or another runeword...that he will be even better and able to do the ubers with.

    Needless to say...this went on for quite some time...and was kinda comical as well.

    HoS
     
  2. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    OK so rather than just 2 mercs, this sounds like 4-5 set-ups instead (counting char and if he has a Beast or not + multiple merc set-ups).

    IDk about the number game with the auras and ED%, but i'd like a few things clear:

    A1 merc is between using fort/andy/faith or fort/faith/giantskull. With the way it was worded, it seems armor was assumed, but not listed for both.

    A2 merc would be fort and andy's assumed, but either: Infinity, Pride, or other.

    5 options so far, and for char:

    Beast (used with an A2 merc since A1 can have faith, which has higher fanat) or hoto (or other caster wand).


    Also, this makes it sound like an A2 merc is fragile. With fort, he's killing too fast and his def is too high to be fragile, and at the very least, vamp gaze gives DR and leech.
     
  3. tetracycloide

    tetracycloide Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Infinity + might + jab + crushing blow is more damage, considerably more, than faith + arrows alone. That coupled with the beast runeword really seals the deal.

    Andy and fort aren't all they're cracked up to be for a summoner. G-Face and COH are a much better combination.

    Infinity doesn't work so well against Uber Meph, doesn't work at all really. Switching to obedience or pride for that fight does, however. Still better than Act 1 merc. Act 1 mercs are more for a change of pace than actually dealing competitive damage, even in super high end gear.
     
  4. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    my skelly'necs A2 Might merc gets by quite happily with an e-Insight colly coulge, gladiators bane and a crown of thieves hat.....
     
  5. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    The answer is that outside of Uber Tristram it doesn't make any difference.
     
  6. tetracycloide

    tetracycloide Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    That's not really true. There are several other key areas where it would make a difference. Baal and Baal's minions, Nihilithak, D-Clone. Pretty much anything with a big enough life bar and you can feel the difference between a ranged merc and a melee one from CB alone. How big a difference does it make? Certainly not enough to force one over the other, but there's enough of a difference to tell which one is faster.
     
  7. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    The setup with the Might Merc and Beast edges out over the setup with Faith and HotO by a mere 900 dps if all attacks for all skeletons hit. In the end the difference between the two setups is so small when it comes to the skeletons that it might be better to just look at the mercs themselves.
     
  8. nurman

    nurman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Might Merc is better. PERIOD
     
  9. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    I've tried both before and I liked having Waheed with might over the rogue...and seemed that they both died about the same whenever I was doing hell chaos runs.

    HoS
     
  10. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    I've tried uber gear and all it did was cut my magic find and tele speed.

    It makes no difference unless you do uber tristram.
     
  11. tetracycloide

    tetracycloide Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Now I'm not even sure what you're talking about. What does magic find and tele speed have to do with which merc you use? With which gear you equip them with? Name one polearm that would improve magic find or tele speed enough to offset the loss of the kill speed increase of a conviction aura. I can't think of any, not with mana pots around.
     
  12. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    I was responding to the people talking about using beast I guess primarily.

    Never mind, wasn't really in line with original topic.
     
  13. Damric

    Damric Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    I'll take either setup for free plz HoS :p
     
  14. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Fanat doesnt do much to skellie attack speed though, due to it primarily being slow due to the pause between the attacks which isnt decreased by the aura. So Infy merc/pride golem with 3 summon/3 skele and mastery/20fcr wand should be the best (it was cubable somehow right?)
     
  15. Archer

    Archer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    I think it really comes down to what you plan on doing with your Necro. I personally use an Act 2 might merc and have both an Infinity and Insight for him and use Beast myself. If I'm running my own Baal Runs or Mfing, I'll use the Insight. If i'm doing Ubers, I'll go with the Infinity.

    Big thing for me was maintaining 75 fcr, while using Beast and also max resists. I'm running with a 3 to summon, 20 fcr, 2 os, and a crafted 2 to nec. 20 fcr ammy to allow me to reach that 75 fcr plateau. You could use a darkforce or spirit as well but I personally like Homuculus. My summoner was built to be able to do it all. He's sitting at around 200 mf, which is working fine for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  16. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Your never online so how can you?

    HoS



     
  17. curby

    curby Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    You know how people talk about "if every skelly hits"?

    Conviction lowers enemy defense and therefore helps that along. Conviction helps everything from mages to skels to merc to CE.
     
  18. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Ever since I've come to grasp the situation, I've joined the camp of "Let the mercenary do the work." I keep the skeletons damage fairly low (slvl 30 seems to turn them into invincible shields) while putting the biggest, ethereal polearm on my mercenary as I can find.

    Skeleton damage is largely irrelevant to me when the mercenary is 1-2 shotting almost every monster while the skeletons chip away.

    If I liked using Enigma, I might use Infinity, because that's a scenario where you can blob your army around at will and insta-kill almost everything when the skeletons all swing. Though, at that point of budget, it doesn't really matter what you use; you're going to kill the game 90 times over without even trying.

    That said... I hate most things with a bow, Rogues included, so I vote for Waheed anyday. (Crossbows are excluded from my hate)
    I also think (gut feeling here) that the Rogue will never quite match the DPS of the Act 2 Might mercenary with an ethereal polearm.
    So that turns the debate into asking yourself what you want to do the damage between the skeletons and the mercenary.
    *Rogue + Faith leads to a high damage skeleton army, due to increased IAS and damage from Fanaticism.
    *Act 2 Might mercenary holding Infinity or Insight, in an ethereal elite base weapon. This turns your mercenary into a heavy hitter and easily being the strongest member of your army. In fact, it makes little sense to boost skeleton damage at all if you use one of these, the CE chains practically start themselves.
    *Act 2 Might mercenary holding Pride: I think this is a middle of the road option. You get the best of an aura that boosts all damage, but the mercenary himself doesn't get a very damaging weapon in comparison. You also get to deal with that Hit Freezes Target attribute that's likely to suck.

    Well, that's enough soap boxing for tonight...


     
  19. sequoia

    sequoia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Does Beast make a significant difference for the Act 2 setup? I've always hated teleporting/spamming CE with low FCR, and when MF'ing I have to balance FCR, MF, and damage for my merc (beast).



     
  20. curby

    curby Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Ok...Settle this debate

    Use HOTO for initial summoning and teleporting, and Beast for actual fighting. I'd rather have either of these over CtA.

    You can also use Spirit for additional FCR but I'd rather max block with Homunculus (another debate, but spear throwers etc are annoying otherwise)

    BTW why hasn't anyone mentioned the Nec pet calculator?
    http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html
     

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