Oh, Canada!?

jmervyn

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh, Canada!?

WTF?
Article said:
Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in Parliament he would recognize the country's francophone Quebec province as a "nation" within Canada.

In an unprecedented move to woo Quebec separatists, he said he would present a motion later in the day asking the House of Commons to "recognize that Quebecers constitute a nation within a united Canada."
Translation, please? I always believed the Quebecois (sp?) were a bunch of arrogant little Francophone snots with terrorist aspirations, kind of like the Basques. And what the heck is this "nation within a nation" deal?
 

WebDragon

Diabloii.Net Member
WTF?
Translation, please? I always believed the Quebecois (sp?) were a bunch of arrogant little Francophone snots with terrorist aspirations, kind of like the Basques. And what the heck is this "nation within a nation" deal?
I dunno. I guess together they become a Canada super value meal.



 

kobold

Banned
WTF?
Translation, please? I always believed the Quebecois (sp?) were a bunch of arrogant little Francophone snots with terrorist aspirations, kind of like the Basques.
If you take the "terrorist aspirations" out of the equation, I pretty much agree.

And what the heck is this "nation within a nation" deal?
That would be a pathetic attempt from our "leader" (using the term vary loosely) to garner votes in the next election. There's a fair bit of speculation that it could be as early as next spring.



 

Omikron8

Diabloii.Net Member
it's stephen harper bending over backwards for the votes he needs for a majority government

i bet he honestly doesn't care if quebec disappeared off the face of the earth

hell it even says in the description "to woo quebec separatists"

and i bet they will fall for it, pathetic
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
Pretty weird how things go in the world, in my country when the Flemish speak of seperatism they are called nazi's by the Francophone. When i ask them what is the deal in Canada, the francophone want seperatism all of a sudden they are not nazi's, it is for the greater good of the francophone empire.
 

S Z

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah Johnny. Bloody Texans.

Anyway jmervyn, think Scotland as a nation within Great Britain. Same attitude, different accent.
 

Dutchman

Diabloii.Net Member
The really dumb thing about this is that while he may pick up some votes in Quebec he is going to cripple himself in his powerbase, the west. Ontarians are kind of stuck in the middle, and don't really care quite frankly, but from everything I've read Westerners have had the "Quebec can stick it up their arse" attitude for years. Harper is risking more in the west than he stands to gain in Quebec, so I am really mystified by this one. That said, Harper scares me, I miss the days when you could have a fiscally conservative socially liberal party. Harper is defnitely not that.

Canada has the same issues East to West that the States has North to South. The values are just so damn different people will never agree.

I think I'll start a new party called the Bloc Ontario, with the exception of Alberta we're stuck paying for the rest of the bloody country anyway, while the largest city in Canada, Toronto, is virtually bankrupt.

I love this country, but with every passing year I become more convinced that this place is just too damn big and too diverse, that the only solution to anyone getting what they want is to break up the country.

Vive l'Ontario Libre!

Dutch
 

Isolde212

Banned
Nah I just call them a bunch of pretenders..I speak Parisienne french..not frenglish, joile or franco-ontarian french. They can't even whine in french properly. The only good thing about french are the swear words.


*Disclaimer* I reserve the right to say this kind of stuff because I live in a bilingual city, I speak proper french and most of my friends are french. I actually don't have a problem with most of the quebecois just the ones who think they are better than everyone else. Hmmmmm......
 

gorf

Diabloii.Net Member
http://www.cbc.ca/listen/index.html

They're actually talking about it on the radio as we speak. I think its an embarassment that all the politicians we pay to lead our country are spending their time deciding what title to apply to Quebecois. I don't think the conservatives have much to lose here, because the title has no special priviliges attached to it. For that reason, Westerners won't care that much, and any Quebec votes they pull in will be gravy.

Gorf
 

Quietus

Diabloii.Net Member
As has been noted, Harper is just trying to woo a few frenchy votes his way. Nation within a nation... what a load of crap. That's like when the Quebecers wanted to separate, but keep our money. As things stand now, I can't think of any important things that Quebec exports - there's farming all over Canada, Toronto and Vancouver had a buttload of business stuff happening, BC's got a whole lot of forestry... Ontario has farming and the Capital, PLUS the largest city in the country. Quebec has a bunch of whining twits who want to leave, but still want us to give them money. True enough that they may just be the most vocal group, but still.

"Nation within a nation"... it just means that they are Quebec, they speak Franglais, and they have their own culture rather than being forced to speak English. In other words... they get what they've always had. And Harper wants them to vote for him. Vive la Canada!
 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
As has been noted, Harper is just trying to woo a few frenchy votes his way. Nation within a nation... what a load of crap. That's like when the Quebecers wanted to separate, but keep our money. As things stand now, I can't think of any important things that Quebec exports - there's farming all over Canada, Toronto and Vancouver had a buttload of business stuff happening, BC's got a whole lot of forestry... Ontario has farming and the Capital, PLUS the largest city in the country. Quebec has a bunch of whining twits who want to leave, but still want us to give them money. True enough that they may just be the most vocal group, but still.

"Nation within a nation"... it just means that they are Quebec, they speak Franglais, and they have their own culture rather than being forced to speak English. In other words... they get what they've always had. And Harper wants them to vote for him. Vive la Canada!
And Montreal just happens to be the second largest city in the country. Quebec just happens to sit on a massive hydro-electricity production system.

Farming? You think vegetables and apples contribute much to the GDP? If there's any farming done, it's the prairies that do it.

And about giving Quebec money, you might want to get off your high horse and look at how much money Quebec gives Ottawa. The money they ask for is a fraction of the money they contribute to federal taxes.

That said, the Quebec political scene is self-righteous, arrogant, and xenophobic bordering on racist. They are so desperate in preserving French because it's the only thing that distinguishes them from the rest of Canada. Distinct society, my ***!


Nah I just call them a bunch of pretenders..I speak Parisienne french..not frenglish, joile or franco-ontarian french. They can't even whine in french properly.
Funny that. When I went to highschool in Montreal, all the French teachers complained about how French French has been so anglicized.



 

Isolde212

Banned
And Montreal just happens to be the second largest city in the country. Quebec just happens to sit on a massive hydro-electricity production system.

Farming? You think vegetables and apples contribute much to the GDP? If there's any farming done, it's the prairies that do it.

And about giving Quebec money, you might want to get off your high horse and look at how much money Quebec gives Ottawa. The money they ask for is a fraction of the money they contribute to federal taxes.

That said, the Quebec political scene is self-righteous, arrogant, and xenophobic bordering on racist. They are so desperate in preserving French because it's the only thing that distinguishes them from the rest of Canada. Distinct society, my ***!




Funny that. When I went to highschool in Montreal, all the French teachers complained about how French French has been so anglicized.

I agree that Quebec does bring in a lot of federal income. They also have a lot of the natural resources that we will be scrambling for in the next 50 years but I believe that we can reserve the cultural aspect without making it such a big ordeal.
The thing that I don't understand is why the Quebecois have such arrogant attitudes. I speak both languages and I still get looked down on because I'm "anglophone". So what? I'm don't feel better about myself because I'm english.
It comes down to the language preservation and the thing is that Canada has made drastic attempts to instill the french language nationally but Quebec has done nothing to recognize that. They aren't forced to learn english in their schools like we are. Their signage isn't bilingual like we are. You have to go to french school whereas in the rest of the country it's a choice.
As I said I don't have a problem with most of the Quebecois because on a whole they are only living off what their parents and their parents before them have been taught. The problem that I have is when they turn around and tell me that I would never understand what it's like to be french as if they are so hard done by. It's a mute point. Of course I'll never understand what's it's like to be black either but it doesn't mean that they are better or worse than me. They are the same. Should I feel bad that they were enslaved? I didn't do it. Should I feel bad that many French Canadians are low income and feel they have been slighted by the federal government? No I didn't do that either.


The last time I was in Montreal I spoke french to a cabbie and he proceeded to shrug at me and tell me he didn't speak french. I found that sort of funny.



 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
The thing that I don't understand is why the Quebecois have such arrogant attitudes. I speak both languages and I still get looked down on because I'm "anglophone". So what? I'm don't feel better about myself because I'm english.
I think it comes with being French. ;)

I can't really blame them though. The Americans do it too, and so does the Chinese, the Japanese, the Koreans, and pretty much everyone else. Hell, even Canada tries desperately to distinguish itself from its practically identical (culturally speaking) southern neighbor through the most insignificant differences.

It comes down to the language preservation and the thing is that Canada has made drastic attempts to instill the french language nationally but Quebec has done nothing to recognize that. They aren't forced to learn english in their schools like we are. Their signage isn't bilingual like we are. You have to go to french school whereas in the rest of the country it's a choice.
I'm pretty sure English is mandatory for secondary school, at least. They just have different levels of English classes.

As for the bilingualism, let's not kid ourselves. Montreal is probably the only Canadian city that is truly bilingual. (Maybe Halifax too, but I'm not familiar with it.) Toronto might sport bilingual road signs in some places, but there are more people speaking Mandarin than French here.

The problem that I have is when they turn around and tell me that I would never understand what it's like to be french as if they are so hard done by. It's a mute point. Of course I'll never understand what's it's like to be black either but it doesn't mean that they are better or worse than me. They are the same. Should I feel bad that they were enslaved? I didn't do it. Should I feel bad that many French Canadians are low income and feel they have been slighted by the federal government? No I didn't do that either.
I have to disagree with that. Social burdens are the responsibility of every individual in that society. Not that white Americans should feel responsible for slavery, but they should acknowledge it and work toward redressing the injustices their forebearers have committed.

That said, compared to the plights of Blacks, Natives, and pretty much every visible minority, the "injustices" done to Quebecers is pretty paltry.



 

Isolde212

Banned
As for the bilingualism, let's not kid ourselves. Montreal is probably the only Canadian city that is truly bilingual. (Maybe Halifax too, but I'm not familiar with it.) Toronto might sport bilingual road signs in some places, but there are more people speaking Mandarin than French here.
In my opinion I think the Quebec is the only province that has truly set themselves aside and segregated themselves and then they complain that they are segregated. The country is supposed to have two official languages. I say make everyone learn french but only if you are going to make the french learn english.


In closing, the argument that stands with Quebec is purely cultural preservation. I understand the importance of that however I feel that every province has it's own culture and as much as the federal government to help in a minor way to maintain the identity of Quebec you don't see every other Canadian turning around and saying hey I'm a Maritimer, from the Prairies or from the west coast preserve me! They do it through their own means by establishing strong community roots and education and the country in turn recognizes them and respects them. All Quebec does is annoy people and turn them away from an otherwise beautiful province and a very unique culture.



 

jmervyn

Diabloii.Net Member
Anyway jmervyn, think Scotland as a nation within Great Britain. Same attitude, different accent.
No, I'm aware of the basic situation - I was hoping for input as to why this had happened. Besides, the Scots have squat for economic contributions now, other than tourism, and it wasn't like the U.K. was a monolithic nation in the first place (I think I still have my pound coin minted by some backwater Isle - Man? Wight? Dog?)

Quebec, OTOH, has economy, natural resources, and tourism. So this really had me stumped. Does Harper imagine it will be like a Swaziland, or a massive Frenchie reservation? Or is this just a nominal deal?



 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah Johnny. Bloody Texans.

Anyway jmervyn, think Scotland as a nation within Great Britain. Same attitude, different accent.
Cockney accent ... Scottish accent ... I always had trouble understanding what either of you Brits were saying. :wink3:



 
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