Obama and the National Anthem

Johnny

Banned
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

If anything is going to bring down Obama it's his very awkward name in these times.
 

Tai.

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Man people hate Ike. I can't tell you how often my grandfathers who served rant about how awful that man was...
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Although he is'nt required to put his hand over his heart. Being the one and only person not to do it makes it look bad.
The point is that he *is* required to put his hand over his heart.



 

Tai.

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Honestly, I never knew that despite living in the States for 20 years. It isn't common protocol, though it is apparently official.

The point, or what should be the real point, is that this is an idiotic way to make decisions about who leads your country. Obama didn't wear a flag pin, he didn't put his hand over his heart Oh Noez... McCain can't keep straight in his mind who does and who does not have ties to Al-Qaeda but is determined to keep this war going for another 100 years if necessary. Personally I find the combination of McCain's policies a bit more ominous than the personal decisions Obama has made.

This type of muckraking campaign is pathetic. More than half of the country wanted anyone but Bush in 2004, but he won because people felt both options were awful because of just this sort of crap.
 

Tai.

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

I think according to the Flag Code posted in the first post it is technically required though nobody seems to be aware of it and I doubt anyone thought a second time about it until they saw Sean Hannity or some other muckraker bring this up as a campaign breaking issue.

Cheers
-Tai
 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

The Flag Code is not really punitively enforced, and is considered more an official set of guidelines that those who choose to be as respectful as possible to the country should follow. I fully support the right of Americans to completely disregard the Flag Code in protest to the country's actions, but messing it up out of ignorance or laziness looks extremely bad to me.
 

IntellectSucks

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Honestly, I never knew that despite living in the States for 20 years. It isn't common protocol, though it is apparently official.

The point, or what should be the real point, is that this is an idiotic way to make decisions about who leads your country. Obama didn't wear a flag pin, he didn't put his hand over his heart Oh Noez... McCain can't keep straight in his mind who does and who does not have ties to Al-Qaeda but is determined to keep this war going for another 100 years if necessary. Personally I find the combination of McCain's policies a bit more ominous than the personal decisions Obama has made.

This type of muckraking campaign is pathetic. More than half of the country wanted anyone but Bush in 2004, but he won because people felt both options were awful because of just this sort of crap.
You're right, this wouldn't be a campaign breaking issue unless you add it on top of numerous other things such as:
1) Tony Rezko, a friend and business associate of Obama's was convicted of fraud (mostly dealing with political favors) after raising more than $200K (some estimates put the number at $500k+) for Obama's political career. Obama also entered into a suspect land deal (there have been no accusations of any type of wrong doing made about this deal) with the Rezkos at a time when Mr. Rezko was being investigated for fraud.
2) Obama has ties to radical and unrepentant terrorist William Ayers that are not very clear. In Feb of 2008 the New York Sun reported:
New York Sun said:
As an Illinois state senator in 2001, Mr. Obama accepted a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the group that bombed the U.S. Capitol and the Pentagon during the 1970s.

Mr. Ayers wrote a memoir, "Fugitive Days," published in 2001, and on the day of the September 11 terrorist attacks, he was quoted by the New York Times as saying: "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough."

He and Mr. Obama served together on the nine-member board of the Woods Fund, a Chicago nonprofit, for three years beginning in 1999, and they have also appeared jointly on two academic panels, one in 1997 and another in 2001. Mr. Ayers, who was never convicted in the Weather Underground bombings, is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago
The Obama campaign has described them as "friendly". People who know both figures state that Obama held campaign events at Ayers' house (though exactly the nature of those events is not discusssed.). They worked together on the board of a non profit organization and appeared at a few debates and panels since the mid nineties. Obama's assertion that Ayers is only someone who "lives in his neighborhood" is just not true.
3) Obama's "mentor" and spiritual advisor Reverend Jeremiah Wright has been broadcast from everywhere available spouting some really controversial stuff. Obama sat in this church for 20 years and had a very close relationship with Reverend Wright. His assertion that he didn't know those things were being said is flat out ridiculous (and if it IS true isn't it disturbing that he can be an active church member for 20 years and not notice such a glaring streak of controversy in his pastor?). So, if he knew what was being said, then he ignored it and then lied about it later on. Isn't this a bad judgement call on his part?
4) The person he chose to help pick his VP is now being investigated for accepting shady loan deals from Countrywide Mortgage in the midst of the mortgage crisis. Obama tried to dismiss the person as being "tangential" to his campaign, only a week after saying that the VP choice was the most important decision his campaign could make. If his top advisor on who should be VP is conducting shady loan deals, isn't that a concern? If he really was only "tangential" to the campaign, why is someone of no importance making such an important decision?

All this paints a picture of someone who is either crooked himself (I don't believe this) or surrounding himself with bad people because of naivette. Failing to follow the flag code is just one more example of his lacking judgement (as has been pointed out, it may not be inherently bad to not put your hand over your heart but to be the only one NOT doing so sure does look bad).


 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

2) Obama has ties to radical and unrepentant terrorist William Ayers that are not very clear. In Feb of 2008 the New York Sun reported:
The New York Sun ... you mean that Neoconservative rag that ran an editoral on 2/6/03 arguing that Iraq protestors should be prosecuted for treason?

Thanks, but no thanks. The American public has had a bellyful of your Rovian fear-mongering tactics and failed Bush administration policies.

We don't need a repeat performance.

The Democrats are gonna clean your clock this fall.

You can take that to the bank.



 

IntellectSucks

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

The New York Sun ... you mean that Neoconservative rag that ran an editoral on 2/6/03 arguing that Iraq protestors should be prosecuted for treason?

Thanks, but no thanks. The American public has had a bellyful of your Rovian fear-mongering tactics and failed Bush administration policies.

We don't need a repeat performance.

The Democrats are gonna clean your clock this fall.

You can take that to the bank.
This is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that is raising questions about Obama. All of those things are valid concerns people should have. Did you address any of them? Nope, instead you just made a baseless personal attack. What the people who are so blinded by Obama's pretty speeches fail to realize is that you can have problems with the Bush administration and also have problems with Obama.

It's not fear mongering when you want to know why a candidate is surrounding himself with criminals and radicals. It's not fear mongering when you want to know why a candidate doesn't have the presence of mind to obey the code put in place for proper behavior during the playing of the national anthem. I would hope that anyone who is trying to become the President would be subject to such questions. I know that I would wanna know if John McCain had a job with someone involved in a planned bombing of the pentagon. Or if someone who raised half a million dollars for his political career was convicted of fraud. Or if he had been attending a church for 20 years where the Reverend was telling people that the government invented the AIDS virus to commit genocide against black people.

If you have no way to defend Obama against these things, then just admit it. But don't accuse me of fear mongering because I'm doing no such thing.


 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

I say "meh" to all of that. Those people are nothing more than collateral issues. Ignoring the actual issues and not voting for someone because of their friends is kind of lame, if you ask me.
 

Rashiminos

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

The New York Sun ... you mean that Neoconservative rag that ran an editoral on 2/6/03 arguing that Iraq protestors should be prosecuted for treason?

Thanks, but no thanks. The American public has had a bellyful of your Rovian fear-mongering tactics and failed Bush administration policies.

We don't need a repeat performance.

The Democrats are gonna clean your clock this fall.

You can take that to the bank.
Obamination 2008! :rolleyes:


 

NASE

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

That was one of the worst performances of it that I've ever heard. Not as bad as Roseanne, but still, god awful.
Newsflash from Belgium, some people do even more stupid things.

Starts singing the national anthem of France when a reporter asks him about our national anthem, doesn't know what the 'te deum' really is about - kind of like 4 of July - and telephones during the national anthem in church because his father called him.
I present to you all, mister Yves Leterme, prime minister of belgium - sorry for the dutch subtitles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptU6gRtEpJY



You shouldn't all be so patriotic, doesn't serve anyone. Not you and not the world.



 

BobCox2

Diabloii.Net Member
Really here in the political threads I am reminded it of it more but I was listening to old Roger Miller songs on you Tube that I remember from when I was young tonight and everyone seems so polarized here this lyric seems to fit.

The people in this city call me country,
Because of how I walk and talk and smile.
Well I don't mind them laughing in the city,
But the country folks all say I'm citified.

The fighting men they say that I'm a coward.
Because I never push no one around.
Gentle people call me trouble-maker,
Cause I'll always fight and stand my ground.

Funny I don't fit.
Where have all the average people gone?

Some pious people point and call me sinner,
Because to them I've never seen the lights.
Other folks think of me as a preacher.
I'm just doing what I think is right.

The wealthy people think that I am a hobo,
Lean and hungry, writing mournful songs.
And the poor, poor people think I am a rich man,
But really, I'm just trying to get along.

It's funny I don't fit.
Tell me where have all the average people gone?

And the government has given me a number,
To simplify my birth and life and death.
And still my woman thinks I'm awful important,
Like the moon and the sun and the sea and the sky and breath.

Yes, it's funny I don't fit.
Where have all the average people gone?

Honey I don't fit,
Where have all the average people gone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77R9kM6e3ro
 

Tanooki

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Being patriotic is only wrong if you're American. It's unfair to the rest of the world that our country's the best... we can't go flaunting it in their faces.

If you live in France, or Mexico, or Iraq, be as patriotic as you need to. We don't feel sorry for you... honest.
 

NASE

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

What's wrong with being patriotic? I like my country.
There is noting wrong with being patriotic, however there is a problem when you are to patriotic. Now I'm not saying that you are one of them, though if you are willing to not vote for a candidate simply because he doesn't have his hand over his heart when you think he should, you are getting dangerously close to exaggeration if you ask me.



 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
Re: Obama and the National Anthem

Being patriotic is only wrong if you're American. It's unfair to the rest of the world that our country's the best... we can't go flaunting it in their faces.

If you live in France, or Mexico, or Iraq, be as patriotic as you need to. We don't feel sorry for you... honest.
That's just self-pity. There is nothing wrong with patriotism per se, but the problem with it is that it's particularly popular among people who didn't achieve anything themselves to be proud of instead. It's the kind of pride you can have at the lowest price. If you want it, it comes for free.

There is nothing wrong with being proud to be an US American if you actually did something productive for your country. However, it's arrogant to say that others are envious and that the US are the best. It's one of the reasons why US Americans became a bit unpopular even among their allies. The rest of the world has the impression that the US think that all they do is right and therefore everybody else has to follow without being asked before. It doesn't matter whether that impression is right or wrong. The US must must change the way they are dealing with others if they want the rest of the world to think better of them.



 
Top