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Noobish question : So how can I finally find a high damage weapon? o

Discussion in 'Classic' started by Sebbie, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Sebbie

    Sebbie IncGamers Member

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    Noobish question : So how can I finally find a high damage weapon?

    I read and also believed that classic was fun because you did not need the high end gear (teleporting necros and barbs is just silly). I think it's mostly true except for melee.

    See when you make a caster from scratch you basicly need life, mana, possibly some cast rate, hit recovery and maybe some +skills gear. All of which you know that you will find at some point threw rares and uniques. I found almost all the uniques with my sorceress except gskins/silks/soj. The problem here is the unique weapons are all bad except for bonesnap. Crushing blow from rattle cage and goblin toe is nice but it has it's limit.

    Now when you make a fighter you are TOTALLY bound to your weapon. I finally got my hands on a bonesnap a couple of days (threw trades) so I switched to a barb and he got level 73 really easy using the BS. But now I wan't to duel and I need a battle hammer otherwize it is impossible to get anywhere. I have a nice 30/20 tower shield 19 priz with 39 cr stacked but I don't even use it since I certainly don't wanna pair it up with a civerb gudgel!

    My bowazon is also stucked with a puny 93% ED gothic bow. There is no point in playing a character which will stall because of a bad weapon. This is ridiculous.

    On the other hand my frost zealot using full cleg is not stalled since most of the damage comes from the holy freeze. Same thing with my smither since you basicly use a barbed shield and high level holy shield and your damage is ok. A javazon is probably the same thing all her damage comes from her skills too not her gear. My hammerdin was not stuck but he's a caster and anyway it's just plain boring to play :lipsrsealed:

    So what do I do for the Gothic bow and the battle hammer?
    I am now saving the perfect skulls in order to reroll my rares. Should I trade my uniques for perfect skulls? I am also rerolling a blue battle hammer using flawless in hope to catch a merciless or savage version! The results are pathetic. I am really desperate! Maybe I should try to buy a merciless or King's BH from a NPC! I had no success while trying to trade for one too. Most traders are show offs and then some are really too scared to trade even when confronted with an actual good deal.

    Where should I mf run for battle hammers and gothic bow? I did numerous andi/meph/diablo runs with sorceress in both hell and nightmare and now am running with the barb in flayer hell but I am totally disapointed there... XP is good in flayer I must admit. Maybe my mf is too low? I use about 200 MF on both char. I mostly play in games with 4+ players too.

    I'd like to ear your tooughts on this. Also I wander what happens when a new ladder starts. Do we see a huge proportion of casters as I would expect?
     
  2. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    from personal experience, most of the really really good drops start happening once you are past lvl **, and with roughly the MF you refer to.

    my bsnap/angellics baba is currently lvl 85, and is now using a decent bh, 138 dmg, with +18 str, 2xx AR, and leach. that plus swordback makes for easier killing of travincal, and mephy's council, but truthfully most of the damage is done from them bleeding out.

    I have a lvl 90 Din (number 108 or so on the east ladder) and even when he tosses on the gull and tri topazed hat, in a nearly full game the drops are iffy.

    it honestly seems to me, that the better drops I have run across, come from when I'm not intentionally mf-ing. When I'm doing endless flayer runs, I come across dual leach, dual resist, MF gloves as an example.

    or, when self rushing a new character to get a mule to hell, and/or perm it, I land a blinkbat from nm D.

    you think casters are boring after a while. Try to lvl a baba into the 90s... where one death can set you back like 20 cs runs (or more).

    as for your sheild, it's really mostly only useful for BVS I would imagine. swordback's bleeding will assist any weapon you use in the other hand.

    also, do not forget, weapon damage is not the be-all, do all. there are items that add to min/max damage, more str for a baba adds damage, and stacked crushing blow, and/or open wounds can inflict a surprising amount of damage...

    I was $hits n giggle duelling with someone after I rushed them, I thought he had a nice socketed bh with a p-emerald since I kept getting poisoned on top of bleeding from his swordback. turns out he was using a wyrmskull (I think that's the necro hat that adds poison dmg)

    there are many guides here that will assist you in making a duel/specialist baba without breaking the bank on gear. However, if you continue to be frustrated, the only thing I can suggest is stick to it.

    I would have offered up my bow, but I already traded it (for only 1 gull) it was this one: http://www.ninefrozentoes.net/gothicbow.jpg
     
  3. Sebbie

    Sebbie IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the feedback especially on open wounds. When I think about it I might have under estimated it's value greatly. I must admit that sometime even at 3k life I have to bail out on some fights with monsters with nasty mods. If they were bleeding out their hit point while I wimp out it would help the job greatly. I remember also literally giving up on StormTree as he was healing himself on me (that was pathethic).

    To talk about my barb a bit. I have maxed BO whirl and mastery and I put some points in utility such as 1 in beserk, command, natural resist, speed and find item. I have 100 str and rest to vitality. When mfing I wear a tri topaz helm with full angelic set except sword. Got some nice dual leech glove with mf too. Fast dual resist boots. So far the character is real fun to play and it just never dies. Am dreaming about a nice BH. When I'll find one I'll be real happy. Will have been worth the wait and effort! And that way I will be able to bring my lightning resist to max too now it's only at 51 and have a chance to block those mana burners which can cause problem. And duel of course!

    I got some questions on open wounds. Does it completly negates healing and does it scale to the number of player in the game? How much damage does it actually deals to monsters per second and to player in pvp. Does it stack if you hit the guy 3 time will he bleed 3 times as fast? Same question about poisoned monsters does it stop their healing completly?

    But for cb I have always been a fanatic about it. My strafazon wears Toes, Cage for instance. I put that odd looking Face of Horror for more fear. So I get good crushing blow and send them running all the time. Somewhat funny to look at those monsters wimp out on such a weak character that she is. Cb is less effective on bowazon but it's better then nothing.

    I think I dismissed open wounds just because I could not associate a number to what it did. So I will do some test with swordback or boneflesh tonight so that I can gauge the effect myself. Might test Wormskull too.

    I would have liked that bow by the way hehe.

    cheers
     
  4. Akukami

    Akukami IncGamers Member

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    As an LoD convert, you're making the first mistake when switching to Classic, and that is the assumption that you can make effective, high-end characters with all Unique setups. First thing you need to realize is that RARE items are king in classic. Sure, you have items like RCage, GSkin, Silks, etc. to help you along the way, but honestly, you'd be better off if you used rares.

    Also, there are certain characters that are "king" on Classic, and Bowazons and Zeal/Smiters are mostly nerfed on Classic. Don't expect them to be effective mass killers. (Even Crushing Blow and Open Wounds won't save you w/o help from another character.)

    That all said, to move on to your question about Open Wounds and Poison, OW doesn't stack if you hit a monster multiple times, so it doesn't bleed 3 times as fast as you mentioned. Also, for poison, if I'm not mistaken, I believe the poison DOES stack on monsters only. I know that in PvP, the poison damage that triggers when hit resets after multiple hits, therefore, making it impossible to stack.

    For places to MF, you're better off if you use the Andy Bug with 0 to 50 MF (do Hell Andy runs in semi-filled games) with a Sorc, or make an MF Barb with 250 Str and at least 200 MF (400 MF for popping with two Gulls) and do a ton of Hell Trav runs. The other fun way is to make any character and complete all quests EXCEPT "Kill Diablo" in Hell Act 4. The idea here is that you want to keep it as a Lord/Lady. When you do CS runs, make sure you try and get the last hit on Big D, and he should drop a lot of nice rares (this is a bug). You don't need any MF for this, but you do need quick clicking to snatch up most or all of the drops before they're gone.

    Have fun!

    - Akukami
     
  5. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    A while back I read up on poison damage.
    Poison from the same source does not stack. The only poison that stacks are the ones with different timers. Wearing a wormskull and WW'ing a person or monster just makes it reset the timer if you hit the target again.
    Same goes for a Poison Nova mancer, They don't actually need FCR because you need to wait almost two seconds between each cast anyway for the poison to do it's dirty work.

    Different sources of poison would be :
    Poison Nova
    Poison Explosion
    Poison Dagger
    Emerald Socketed weapon
    Jade Tan Do
    Wormskull
    ring with adds poison damage(not sure if those can have different timers)

    There are probably some more, these are the main classic ones I could think of. Check the stickies in the Necromancers forum if you want more poison info. There will be LoD stuff in there aswell offcourse, use your common sense to determine which items you won't find in classic. :)
     
  6. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    don't forget, that some people have different opinions of "high end" characters.

    an angellics build baba, with a pair of decent dual leach gloves, some resistance rings, and a decent belt is only limited by a lack of a weapon for massive killing pvm.

    mine is now almost lvl 86, and still is only using that 138 bh... a couple more levels, and civerbs cudgel will probably do more ww dmg with it's lvl based added damage :laugh: :thumbsup: (or am I thinking of something else?)

    and even tho I have the andy glitch, it sounds like I'm using too much MF on her... I'll have to experiment with that a bit more, perhaps taking the angellic armor, and tritopazed hat off... I guess I could even take the boots off, and slip Gtoes on....

    (boots are mid 20s, and gloves are in the teens)
     
  7. Akukami

    Akukami IncGamers Member

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    True, but you're not going to expect a fully decked out Unq Item Sorc to perform up to LOD standards w/o the charms and such. That was the point I was trying to make.

    - Akukami
     
  8. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    true, and fair enough. I have no point of reference for LOD, as it honestly never interested me enough to even acquire the disc... :)

    I was only trying to offer the counterpoint, that godly/uber multiple soj worthy rares are not needed to enjoy the game, do reasonabley well at levelling, acquiring enough gear to fill account after account with stuff worth keeping, and/or even snag a spot on the ladder :thumbsup:
     
  9. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    True.

    True.

    Snakecord (u know, the magnificent 2 row belt) is the only other useful non-weapon unique item besides wormskull to deliver poison in a melee attack. Rings with poison dmg here in classic? No such thing. Cold dmg can come off of belts and ammys, and a weapon of course. We are majorly restricted here in classic for pois dmg, so we have to waste an soj to open up a slot on the martel to keep a mob poisoned during attack.

    Good suggestion.

    Not according to what I read over on the Statistics Forum.
    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=422108&highlight=poison
    I'm glad this what brought up cuz it clears up some misconceptions on my own part. Orphan over there said that poison from different sources doesnt stack, that the game looks at the highest poison source and uses that for the rest of its timer. So, if 2 pnova necros are blazing away, only the highest poison source will be used. That's a relief to me when a weaker source of poison enters the equation. You can do an advanced search(only for registered members) and use poison keyword, only in titles of posts, and then choose the forum of interest - stat or necro.
     
  10. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    I only read your Poison Nova Summoner's guide I guess. :)
    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=351833

    Interesting, so if you have a source of poison which lasts for 7 seconds and jolt a massive damage poison nova over it, it will do that massive poison nova damage for 7 seconds in stead of the usual 2 ?

    Although it's true that poison damage can no longer spawn on rings(you won't find them on any Ladder realm), they used to spawn back in the day.
    I have a ring on classic with 2-7 poison damage, if you wish to see it, join me on Euro/SC/NL and gimme a nudge. *CC_porn
    Note that I haven't seen it on any of the dupelists and considering it's source, it is most likely legit. Then again, I don't know all the dupes. :)
     
  11. Sebbie

    Sebbie IncGamers Member

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    About swordback and poison damage. At hell with alot of players they seem to do nothing at all. Except turning monster green and spilling blood on screen! Monster heal was not prevented.

    About enjoying the game with lesser gear. Yeah sure the game is fun without the better gear. Part of the fun is finding better gear too! And let's be honest with better gear the game is more fun too. I remember when I got my hand on my first shard. The difference was incredible for my sorceress. Some items are really that important that's all.

    My barb turned level 80 and his mfing seems to be better now. More rares seems to be dropping. I think I will level him even further as it was suggested here. Being able to gamble for +2 skills amulet is interesting too.

    About CS RUNS
    I am thinking of actually equipping crushflange with my barb for the runs! Dying to IM is that annoying. The damage the barbs do is puny compared to sorceress and paladins anyway. I guess we need to understand the role of the barb. Here is what I think I should do as a barb in the runs:

    a. provide cries to boost the team (battle command, battle orders, shout)
    b. leap attack to the center of the map if the run has no sorceress
    c. go pop the seal fast ebough if the cs run is filled with high level dins and sorceress. They seem to get really pissed if diablo is not spawn fast enough and they kill at a crazy rate
    d. with weaker dins/sorceress act like a meat shield in front of the monsters: I do have 3.5k life, 74% block and huge stacked resists. I can tank.
    e. howl? I will try this out. But I have only 1 point in it. Will it actually do anyhing?

    Am I missing something here. I don't wan't to weaken the cs runs. I want to provide as much help as I could

    cheers
     
  12. quadeddie

    quadeddie IncGamers Member

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    You've got it about right. If you get in with a professional crew, though, all you need to do is #1. Here's the quick cs sequence:

    The gg sorc will sora to star and open tp
    Everyone runs in and gets bo'ed
    sorc goes and pops seals ahead of dins
    dins rush in and hammer bosses
    everyone rushes to d and exits

    This can be done in under 60 seconds. No time to dump items at jamela or hit your stash, it's rapid fire boom-boom-boom. And you better not be 2 seconds late on the gg bo because that will piss em off.

    You get high enough level, and it's just robotic - no time to screw around with a walk or bora or whatever. You can try the rest of your things if the cs is noob, but not if you have gg pros.

    Edit: I swear I heard a song about your name.... something like: "I will never ever ever ever ever ever write a song about the sebbie"... relation?
     
  13. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, in that guide i wasnt sure whether a necros poison skeleton mage could overwrite his pnova. So i used a "might" or "maybe" when I said it. So no worries, the game apparently looks at the strongest source of poison damage, and it will reset the timer. For pnova that means 2 seconds, any 7 second damage would be a bug, and anyways, you're going to pnova every couple seconds if that is the type of necro u are. 3k pnova dmg over 7 seconds would be awful, thank goodness it gets the dmg across in only 2 seconds.

    Almost all poison necros arent aware of this, they will compete with u in games from nearly the same location, only the highest dmg gets thru.

    Poison rings, yeah thats possible, maybe I will go thru my old 1.08 accts and check, but i suspect it was before then. I trust u, no need to see 'em.
     
  14. norvi11erogers

    norvi11erogers IncGamers Member

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    Everything i've heard, read, and seen says that monsters will not heal while they are being poisoned/bled.
     
  15. Rawly

    Rawly IncGamers Member

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    Think you forgot to mention that any din 93 or over tends to go for seis as his exp from anyone other than diablo is next to nothing, the other dins go for infector, and the sorcs go for viz after popping seals. So if your not one of the above you should follow the dins to infector as that is where most of the exp is.
     
  16. purplelocust

    purplelocust IncGamers Member

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    Crushflange won't do much (crushing blow in a many-player game is much less effective than in low-player games) so why not go all the way and hold a wand with 3 resists and a 3 PDiamond shield? Once you've done your battle cries, your main contribution is over if there are good sorcs and hammerdins in the party, so if you switch to resist gear, that is fine as dying characters are a distraction...
     
  17. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    Crushflange does have 50% fire resist, which is kinda nice in Hell CS. :)
    But indeed you raise a good point. Though atm I tend to run around and WW the Oblivions if they happen to be singled out so they don't curse the party.
    Offcourse my char isn't that high yet, so I don't risk that much XP.

    I was so sleepy yesterday that I didn't notice I was IM'd while I kept on doing normal attacks on a oblivion. I was thinking "Wow, this one does a lot of damage with his elemental attacks, best kill him as soon as possible."
    Only afterwards, or rather, when my final swing began, I realised it was infact me that was doing the damage to me. Classic "DOH !" moment.
     
  18. Sebbie

    Sebbie IncGamers Member

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    About monster heal in regards to poison and bleeding: I just thought of this when I tested it was against Thorned Hulks and these have a special healing hability if I am not mistaken. So perhaps the poison and bleeding doesn't prevent that hability but prevent the normal monster heal. Prevent monster heal on the under hand does work against Thorned Hulk. I was killing a physic immune Thorned Hulk with beserk and he was healing too fast for me. A second barbarian with a prevent monster heal weapon came in to trigger the hability and I could kill it afterword...

    Oh man I am really looking forward to equip a branch in a CS as soon as I find a good one it will look so silly I like the idea a lot :thumbsup:
     
  19. quadeddie

    quadeddie IncGamers Member

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    Interesting... didn't know that. (But I guess I've never been in a game with a din 93+) I've seen guys killing away from the group, but I always thought they were being a-holes and hogging exp.

    Sidetrack:

    When leveling my zon, I find that can't do jack in 8 player cs. Infector and crew are insane and my highest dmg attack just slivers off a little life from them. I can take down Seis and crew because they spawn in a tight pack and my lightning can glace off them alot.

    I find that I'm usually just running around red potting while the killers do their work (sad, really for a lvl 85 gg well-built char).
     
  20. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    There are several interesting ways for a barb with high level skills to deal with the two most dangerous seal packs: deSeis and Infector (Vizier was dangerous at the onset of patch 1.10, with an unbelievably high fire enchanted CE blowup when he died that was nerfed cuz hardcore ppl stormed the gates of Blizzard with pitchforks and torches).

    High level leap barb, stands in place at left of the pack, does NOT dive into the pack but keeps knocking them back in a predictable place(to the right), so its easy to target them. He just leaps in place, its very funny to see and very effective.

    Then there is the high lvl howl barb, this would likely be a max lvl warcrier. He will have probably lvl 23-25 howl and the venoms or de Seis minions will scatter like crazy. Dins hate this, cuz they want the monsters in a tight pack, and die fast, for the big, fast exp. Its only good to howl if the party is really in danger or at the cs center tp during bo.

    Best is the high lvl warcry/battlecry from the middle of the mob and swallow healing pots since some of the mob wont be close enough to warcry, but their inferno will be nasty. You should be able to warcry the entire deSeis mob. Even lvl 1 warcry can be effective here, providing the other players are actually strong enough to make kills.

    High lvl dins: they arent much fun to play with since most will seal hog. Things happen so fast in some of those games, that unless u have charge/vigor tele or a long leap, the mob is often dead and u are more than 2 screens away and wont get any exp. At least diablo takes 5 seconds to spawn and has high enough hitpoints that you have an excellent chance of getting to him before he is dead too....
     

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