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No Enigma PvP environment.

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Phyrexial, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. Phyrexial

    Phyrexial IncGamers Member

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    No Enigma PvP environment.

    Just curious, what do you people think PvP would be like if there was no Enigma anymore? Obviously certain builds no longer would be viable, but what do you think would dominate? I'm thinking zons and sorcs, much like 1.09.

    Anyway, thoughts on this "what if?" scenario?
     
  2. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    sins would stand a chance vs sorcs and zons because of dflight?
    same with pallies except with charge?
    rest in piss wind druids?
     
  3. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    you mean "what if" as in clan honor which was active for over a year in 1.10 with no tele?

    desynch hammerdins ruled all, only really vulnerable to bone necs that walled themselves in.

    necs were good, but not as feared as with tele, ultra-vulnerable to barbs among other fast or long-ranged chars.

    bliz sorcs dominated a lot of the time because absorb was capped and few stacked much cr, but were negatable with enough stack.

    wind druids still did ok without tele, middle of the pack or so.

    poison attackers were more effective against non-tele targets and were played a lot more - rabies druids, PN nec, PJ zon.
     
  4. Phyrexial

    Phyrexial IncGamers Member

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    Well, it wouldn't be entirely without tele. I just said no Enigma, which means sorcs could still tele.
     
  5. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    sorcs are negatable
     
  6. mhl12

    mhl12 IncGamers Member

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    hm.. well the first things that come up in my mind is that you won't see windys, bone necros, and hammerdins pwning in every duel.
     
  7. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    ww barb is still the best :clap: In .09 they are too good, only zon can compare to them. With no enigma, is even easier. Fast running. wwsin and hammerdin would own as well, or v/t.

    Sorcs just cant beat anyone whenever ppl stack resist + apporpiate absorb.
     
  8. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    Desync hammerdins would still be doing well without Enigma.
     
  9. PlasmaDragon

    PlasmaDragon IncGamers Member

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    hammerdins didn't own zons unless they had a charge weapon on switch. Also i did pretty well against you with my 30 frw fber and blizzer.
     
  10. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    You can't point to Clan Honor as an example of how things would go in any event. They tried to artificially maintain 1.09 dueling into 1.10. Banning things like enigma teleport was one of the reasons they dwindled. They put into place all kinds of balance rules with an eye to leveling the playing field. That's different than just taking away teleport.

    Well played and well-built desync pallys with charge would dominate. Especially once the new runewords make their way off-ladder. The best ladder pallys don't teleport at all. Charge is practically as fast, has the bonus of desyncing if handled right, is uninterruptible, and packs a big punch at the end. Throw in exile smite, hammers, FoH, etc. etc. and its a prescription to dominate.
     
  11. Duelskull2

    Duelskull2 IncGamers Member

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    I can see desynch hammers and good v/ts doing very very well.
     
  12. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, charge is practically as good as tele anyway. Better in several ways, actually. Desync potential is just the icing on the cake.
     
  13. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    lol guess who

    yes you need charge switch for zons, but that's easy to do.

    we had some good duels when i didn't stack 450 CR. when i did it was pointless ^^
     
  14. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    bunch of bs there. CH was a very good indication of how things would go without enigma.

    CH didn't try to artificially maintain 09 dueling, just tried to balance 1.10 a little.

    CH was strong for over a year, right up until the day WoW came out. WoW (and then to lesser extent GW beta) was main reason for CH demise as most key members moved on to those games.

    there were not "all kinds" of balance rules, at least initially. no tele was the only really restrictive rule (that and no dupes). hammerdins and necros started getting more nerfs later on after it was obvious they were dominating.
     
  15. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    yes, but enigma not just provide tele. The +str & frw mod on it also make ppl more powerful. Without out enigma, all casters will have to put str to meet the gear's requirement, which means they will have lower life, around only 600-800ish.

    The balance of ch rule make casters very underpowered, thats why most of char u see in ch is barb or pally, while necro, sorc, and wind druid are less common to be appear in ch. i only know that there are 5 necros and 3 sorcerers in ch.

    Enigma is the main reason why all caster builds will pop out, after the sygnergy system. so without being tele and removal of enigma runeword are two total different things.
     
  16. Dennis_KoreanGuy

    Dennis_KoreanGuy IncGamers Member

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  17. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    no they're not. other benefits of enigma besides tele are comparatively minor and easily compensated for elsewhere, including str/life benefit. in fact if enigma didn't have tele COH would be a better armor for many builds, and many casters in CH used COH.

    over the course of CH's run there were a ton more than 5 members that played necro. they did thin out when other nerfs started happening, but that had nothing to do with enigma/lack of tele. if you don't think necros were feared in CH non-tele environment you don't know what you're talking about.
     
  18. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    *Points to Clan Honor*

    unfortunately they quit on d2 :(
     
  19. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    Nope, most casters in ch still use enigma over coh cuz they want to use stormshield. I never say necros are underpowered in ch, they just got nerfed really bad. Without using bone prison decrep, amp, no dr more than 18%, no marrowwalk bug, and no more than 75% frw is kinda a pain on the butt.

    If u dont believe me then u can go read the rule, and ask some of them. i believe they fix some, but nobody in ch really play d2 anymore cuz they all move to GW.
     
  20. fugitive alien2

    fugitive alien2 IncGamers Member

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    most used enigma but many used COH. i was there.

    you did say there were only 5 necros in CH (not true), and implied it had something to do with them being more weakened by no tele than other classes. without tele necros are in general much stronger vs other classes - that's why the nerfs ended up being introduced.

    actually more CHrs moved to WoW than GW, although garbad is trying to reform CH on GW now.
     

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