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New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Bandreus, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. Bandreus

    Bandreus Diabloii.Net Member

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    New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Ok, so patch 4.0.1 is introducing a bunch of new stuff, anticipating many things in Cata.

    Sorry if this is been posted already (wasn't able to find it), but I think these bits deserved a quote

    [BLUE="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27189089049&sid=1"]
    Druids

    Eclipse
    • This is a new mechanic being added for Balance druids. The resource is managed through a new bar near the health and mana bars. As the druid casts Arcane spells, the bar moves towards the sun element until the druid achieves a Solar Eclipse, which buffs Nature damage. The goal is then to cast Nature spells, until the bar moves toward the moon element, which triggers a Lunar Eclipse and buffs Arcane damage. The gameplay becomes trying to quickly move the bar from one end to the other in order to maximize each Eclipse buff.

    Paladins

    Holy Power
    • This is a new resource which works similarly to combo points. Paladins will generally want to build up Holy Power until it shines through with a bright yellow glowing effect. Once Holy Power has been built up, it can be consumed to augment existing abilities. For example, Word of Glory can be used to cast an instant-cast free heal. This gives paladins several options for how to spend their Holy Power, depending on the scenario.

    Warriors

    Rage
    • Rage is being normalized so that its generation is no longer based on damage done by auto-attacks. Each auto-attack will provide a set amount of Rage, with off-hand weapons granting 50% of the rage main-hand weapons do. Haste will allow Rage to generate more rapidly by increasing attack speed. In addition, while taking damage, the amount of Rage generated will now be based on the warrior's health rather than the opponent's level. The essence of this change is to improve the scaling that occurs with warrior gear. With warriors balanced around the top tiers of items, we've found that the class tends to underperform more drastically than others in lower-quality items. These changes should correct that.
    [/BLUE]

    Anything familiar/interesting in there? :)
     
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    This is in Diablo 3 General Discussion because?
     
  3. Dahmer

    Dahmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Maybe he knows there are some people here with rage problems and wants them normalized too? :D



     
  4. Bandreus

    Bandreus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Because we don't have a game mechanics specific subforum and this doesn't relate to any one-single D3 class?

    May be xD
    Nope, was thinking to something more holyish...
    Also, it could be the barbarian's fury mechanic ends up being affected by the thoughts on rage as well?

    Which leaves us with the eclipse resource...

    Oh, and I forgot.

    [BLUE="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27189089049&sid=1"]
    Hunters

    Focus
    • This is a new resource which has replaced mana. Hunters never felt like they should be casting mana-based spells, and having a resource that lasted for a long time and then was painfully gone didn’t lead to compelling gameplay.
    [/BLUE]


     
  5. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    A silly thread. there are no parallels or design influences shared between WoW and D3. Everyone knows that!
     
  6. TheMythe

    TheMythe Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    WoW has a thread in a Diablo III forum so Diablo III shouldn't do that!




    Ohh sorry, wrong forumthread :)
     
  7. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    sounds like they are ruining wow to me but whatever
     
  8. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    While I see that these might have implications for Diablo 3, I doubt these changes suggest any concepts for D3 for now. The current 4 resources don't deal with buffing/modifying attacks, and every class has one relatively simple resource.

    Many of the new WoW changes are effectively creating secondary resource systems for classes that already use mana. That's not exactly applicable to our current situation.
     
  9. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Actually, you barb fans out there may want to pay attention to how well it works out with the rage normalization.

    That was a huge problem in WoW, the resource was mostly broken and the barb uses a carbon copy of it, from what we've been told. I started a fairly lengthy thread in the bnet forums about it but the only real conclusion we came to is that fury would, in theory, be just as broken as rage is.

    Blizzard has a lot of proving to do with that mechanic.
     
  10. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    WoW has Paladins and Druids?
     
  11. Larik

    Larik Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    wait OP. are you trying to say WoW and D3 are made by the same company, and that maybe... just maybe they share ideas that seem work well across their games?

    i'm shocked. how dare you even suggest such a thing. it's like your saying that D3 will be using good ideas from WoW. next thing you know you'll be suggesting that WoW borrowed good ideas out of D2.

    i hate to be the person to tell you this but this forum won't stand for that kind of blasphemy.

    /sarcasm
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  12. AxeX

    AxeX Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    While not really D3 related, this does help those trying to figure out more about the 5th class before its revealed. We don't know 100% if it'll be a physical ranged class, so any of these resource mechanics are good possibilities.
     
  13. Larik

    Larik Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    to me, the hunters focus idea sounds a lot like the monk's spirit. you use certain attacks to generate extra focus and then spend focus on other attack. very similar to spirit. sounds like a fun system that i'm looking forward to using.
     
  14. permaximum

    permaximum Banned

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Ah ! Now I see where those "differrent resource mechanic for each class" idea came from? Honestly i was surprised that they're not copying from WoW when it comes to resources but now I see they were exactly doing that. Fury was the first because there was Rage in WoW. Then they probably saw WoW would go for different resource for each class and they copied it too.

    So I came to conclusion that WoW is better game than D3 which shows us that D3 will suck because WoW is already a bad, boring game.

    I am kidding. But ofc every joke has some reality inside.
     
  15. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    The only reality in that joke is that Diablo 3 might be bad if they screw up resource implementation.

    Well, duh? I hear automobiles might be bad if the brakes don't work.
     
  16. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    One you didn't add that I thought was kinda neat was the new Arcane Mage mastery. The mage does more damage the more mana they have; it potentially alters your playstyle radically, promoting your biggest hitters early, and making mana regen much more important than before. I commented in the wizard section that it would be super awesome if Arcane Power was more like this, a relatively fast regeneration source, that's more or less capped, but does extra damage the more of it you have.

    As for this list, yeah, hunter focus and monk spirit sound very similar. There might be "combo point" style builds or something we haven't seen yet that's similar to the combo points/eclipse stuff. And it goes w/o saying that Fury is Rage's direct progeny. Although as stated elsewhere, Rage in WoW is currently the "speed limit" style of resource; it builds up quickly, but you run out of it quickly, throttling your output. Fury is an inertia system; you start out slowly, but once you get going, you can't be stopped. Obviously, this is only from observations from what we currently know, and we'll see how the Rage normalization in WoW pans out. To be honest, I'm surprised they took this long to normalize Rage this way. Seems pretty obvious that you should decouple generation from flat damage dealt or flat incoming damage. Instead, each hit (balanced between two hands and dual wield, natch), regardless of how much damage it does (except crits), should give the same amount of Rage. And for tanks, blocks, dodges, parries and armor shouldn't prevent Rage generation, either. I think after 6 years of tinkering, they may actually hopefully have a damn clue how to do this.
     
  17. Bandreus

    Bandreus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    Please, lets stop the whole D3 vs WoW crap. I don't play WoW and don't care about it, plus, it may very well be certain things being implemented in WoW are a direct consequence of ideas being developed while working on D3. Yet, this sort of whining doesn't really lead to any kind of constructive nor interesting criticism. Simply, who cares?

    Well, while the mechanics do look similar, I'd say the Paladin's Holy Power seems much more alike, especially on a concept level.
    [BLUE="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27189089049&sid=1"]
    Paladins

    Holy Power
    • This is a new resource which works similarly to combo points. Paladins will generally want to build up Holy Power until it shines through with a bright yellow glowing effect. Once Holy Power has been built up, it can be consumed to augment existing abilities. For example, Word of Glory can be used to cast an instant-cast free heal. This gives paladins several options for how to spend their Holy Power, depending on the scenario.
    [/BLUE]
    Here's a quote from Eurogamer's interview to Jay Wilson
    [BLUE="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-07-designing-diablo-iii-interview?page=2"]
    The Monk one's probably the one that works the best. I really like it. It's called spirit, he gets it through combo moves, it builds up slowly, and then he's got certain moves that use up spirit.

    So it's all about building it up over time and really thinking about it: "Do I want to use my awesome attack power here for a lot of damage, or save some because I have a really good skill for getting me out of trouble?"

    The Barbarian we're still working on, we still haven't gotten Fury just right. Mostly it's dealing with exactly that issue - you feel like you have to manage it all the time. Each class is a different challenge.
    [/BLUE]


    You talking about a WoW mechanic here? Sorry I'm no WoW guru.

    All that's known about the Wizard's Arcane Power comes from what Jay stated during this inDiablo.de Interview
    [BLUE="http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-indiablo.de-part-one/"]
    in.Diablo.d3: Resource systems: How to balance out 5 different ones?
    Jay Wilson: The process of balancing resources isn’t very complicated. It’s basically math and we have a lot of guys who are good at math. We have other systems that are subjective and much harder to balance than the resources. We have say, if you’re going to balance a skill like Magic Missile with multiple projectiles vs. a skill like Blizzard. They don’t even have relationships on some levels. Should Magic Missile do more damage since it hits less targets? Or should Blizzard have a bigger radius of effect? Those are much more subjective. When you get to resources, “I need to be able to output this much DPS per minute. Can I?†If I can’t then, is it the resource limiting? If so then you need to adjust the resource.

    in.Diablo.d3: What’s the current standing for Instability and the others? Can you talk about it?
    Jay Wilson: Oh, I’ll talk about it. For the Wizard, we could not get a version of Instability that we liked. The last version involved buff and debuff that would hit the wizard whenever she went unstable. And it was a pretty severe buff. It doubled all her damage taken while increasing her critical hit damage. And it just didn’t affect how people played. They didn’t notice it, and when they did it didn’t change what they were doing. That’s not the point of a resource. It needs to be managed to change the way that you play. So now it’s called Arcane Power and it’s not dissimilar to mana, in a lot of ways. It regenerates very quickly, but it doesn’t grow over time. It’s a flat amount. A lot of passive skills that enhance it.

    Fury is where it was at. We’re just spending time tuning it. Getting the right costs for different skills so fury feels like what it’s supposed to feel like w/o slowing down the barb. If he has to build up too much he feels like he’s yo-yo’ing in and out of being awesome, and that’s now that we want.

    The Monk has Spirit. That’s the one we’re happiest with. He came together very quickly. His combo moves generate sprit, and that’s used for signature moves he does. he can’t do them very often. But they’re great attacks, escapes, and some are recovery moves. That one worked out really well.

    The Witch Doctor is still using mana.
    [/BLUE]
    What we get from that interview is basically this: the Wizard just does not run out of spells, ever. Even if she drains out all of her resource, it refills very quickly. Very much like the WoW rogue's resource, at a first glance.

    We don't have additional info (hopefully that will come with BlizzCon), but that was all there's to know about AP, I'd be very sad, since it would basically be a very fast regenerating mana pool and nothing more...so I get the concept of having the Wizard gaining buffs when she have high/low AP should still be there, even if in a slightly different form.


     
  18. AxeX

    AxeX Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    I've driven cars several miles before with bad/no brakes. It's scary at first but easily becomes second nature.


     
  19. raveharu

    raveharu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    This isn't even related to D3, and moreover I don't see any similarities.

    Thread failed :rolleyes:
     
  20. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: New WoW 4.0.1 resource mechanics

    then perhaps you should look again raveharu
     

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