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New untwinked problem

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Ergroilnin, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hello all!

    I've been playing DII on and off for like 10 years now but most of the time I played on battle.net This time it's first time I've tried seriously SP. I started fishymancer on SC (I am not up to dying because my client drops or someting) but I'm trying not to die and so far I didn't. I'm in fifth act NM now with maxed skeletons, skel mastery and corpse explosion plus the prereqs.

    I'll soon end Act 5 but I don't feel like I'm strong enough for hell. Oh btw i'm always playing on P8, single pass and I usually kill everything on the map (or close to). Of course one possible solution would be lowering the /p command to 1-3 or something but I want to /p8 whole game. Is there anything I am really missing, how I could improve my skel dmg etc.?

    I have 3 all skills right now and I'm using NM act 2 merc with Might.

    EDIT: I'm playing 1.12 and I don't want to get gear with other chars.
     
  2. SunsetVista

    SunsetVista Diabloii.Net Member

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    Welcome!

    You probably aren't missing much. Untwinked /p8 killing speed generally slows down around there.

    You always cast amplify damage for your skellies, right? It can take a very long time to kill at /p8 in late NM/early Hell, especially since iirc corpse explosion doesn't scale with player settings (so it'll take a couple more corpses to get your chain reaction going instead of just 1 or 2). Very high-end builds use things like Beast to up the damage for skellies, but I see you are single-pass so that's pretty unlikely.

    What level are you and what's your gear like? Others on this forum might have some tips. I personally haven't done single pass untwinked fishymancer before.
     
  3. Zenigma

    Zenigma Diabloii.Net Member

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    I saw this at work, and it appears my post didn't go through....

    Hell on /p8 is tough for many characters, especially so without some solid gear. It's rare that you find enough good items to solo the game on /p8 all of the way through untwinked in a single pass. I know I haven't ever done that. That said, you can definitely go for it, not sure how much fun it will be waiting a minute for the skeletons to clean up each pack you run into. Whatever floats your boat, you know? Corpse Explosion, as you should know by this point, doesn't scale damage with player count, so Hell can definitely be a cakewalk on lower player setting for a fishy.

    And since you didn't mention it, I'm going to go ahead and say that you need amplify damage. It will at least double your damage in every situation. (0% physical res -> -100% = 2x damage, while let's say 50% physical res -> -50% = 3x what you would otherwise be doing)

    And a point in life tap is a wise investment, too. For use when things look shaky, and for Mephisto, definitely.

    Anyhow, lots of things to consider, and in all honesty, it really doesn't take anything away from the character if it's done on /p1 in Hell.
     
  4. coju

    coju Diabloii.Net Member

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    untwinked hell p8, you are a brave/patient man. IMO if you are going to do that, just strip your necro naked for the rest of his career!
    P1 will make hell a cake walk without the cake, and walking in circles.
     
  5. BobCox2

    BobCox2 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Use Ranged Attacks, curses etc Take you time and let George do it.

    Max his Equip First.

    Superdave did it Players 8 HC 1 pass full clears with a zon using only passive skills, cracked items, a merc, valk, and decoy - you have anything you find and an army

    Anna Goanna's Story - by Superdave
    Edit 4 Link - read it for advice on lvl to take on bosses etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
    Thyiad and coju like this.
  6. Cyrax

    Cyrax Diabloii.Net Member

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    Besides the stuff other people already mentioned i'd take a good look at my gear if i were you. Only 3+ skills seems low. Even untwinked.

    With just a +2 skill wand (or +3 summoning), lore hat, +1 amu, +1 necro head you're already at +5 or 6. None of these should be too hard to get. With luck / twinking it's obviously easy to go way higher.
     
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  7. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Welcome.

    For a fishymancer/summonmancer, /pl8 Hell is possible. The challenge is your own patience. You will probably be bored as hell, and want to quit - even if you are stubborn as hell, it'll take rediculous amounts of time to get through all of Hell, and some things may not be bearable.
    That said, for most characters during questing, especially untwinked, Hell /players 8 is not worth the effort to do. As you're SoftCore, keep pushing forward, and see how it goes.

    Also, give a full list of items/stats and skills, and we can help you out for improvements. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here, and someone may be able to pick up on some easy to shop items, or things to look out for. You never know.

    How do you mean your "client drops"? This is SP SC, so even if the game continued after crashing, it's still SC. But in Single Player, the game pauses if you alt-tab, frames start dropping, or something crashes.

    As said, the best way to guage how you're progressing is simply to continue on, run through Hell, and if something becomes a challenge, post some stats and gear, and be specific with the challenge you're up against. Good luck, and definitely keep us posted if you continue on /pl8 - that definitely is a challenge!
     
  8. Zubans

    Zubans Diabloii.Net Member

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    As has been mentioned before the only real thing you need to change is your expectation of the character. You simply cannot put all of these restrictions (like untwinked and single pass) onto your character and then still expect it to crush everything on players 8 Hell. You will find better equipment and your character will grow stronger, but none of that changes the fact that it will remain quite a slog.
     
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  9. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thank you for your replies so far!

    Of course I am not really thinking of destroying everything in matter of seconds in hell with p8 single pass untwinked, I just wanted to know if there was something obvious I missed.

    I also use amp dmg on everything, my gear is spirit sword, undead crown, sigon armor, boots and shield, goldwrap, nagelring, dwarf star, chance guards and the mahim-oak amulet. My merc is using andy's set helmet, boneflesh and insight (lvl 12 meditation :( ) in normal scythe so dmg is only 35-67

    EDIT: Forgot, I'm now before NM ancients at lvl 71 with 156 str (planning on spirit monarch), rest in vit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  10. pharphis

    pharphis Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    I'd replace mahim oak with the first + skills ammy you find :D

    You could probably very easily gamble one with 1-3 summoning skills
     
  11. maareek

    maareek Diabloii.Net Member

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    I would definitely value the +1 all skills of Lore over the +3 Skeleton Mastery of Undead Crown. Agree with pharphis on the amulet; remember to take valuable items like blue body armors and the like to town and sell them to fund the gambling/shopping. Getting a better weapon for your merc will help you out a ton, as well - I don't even think Insight is terribly necessary. Something like Honor if you have a base, some Unique if you've found a decent one, or even a shopped weapon should be more helpful. As skelliemancer you're going to want your merc to be able to do a good amount of damage (mostly to start the corpse explosions going), and that Insight just isn't going to cut it. Later on hopefully you can find a good base and give him Insight if you really feel like you need it (though I think you'd still prefer Obedience in the way of relatively easily attainable [a little less so in 1.12, to be fair] runewords) but in the meantimes you're going to be way better off having the merc be an actual help to your cause instead of walking around doing something potions could do.
     
  12. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    I've been trying to gamble ammy but so far no luck... I might make lore, when I get net two socket helm, I'll see... About the Insight... Yeah I actually do need that, without it I can't CE much as I'd instantly run out of mana. I'll just need to get better base for it imo. I would need to go back to town for more mana pots all the time without it, which would be really annoying. But if the killing in Hell will be hellish (hehe...) slow, then I'll try giving him damage weapon.
     
  13. uglyfred

    uglyfred Diabloii.Net Member

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    If you still need the mana regen, maybe consider just dumping 16 points into dexterity (minus any +dexterity items/charms) and just carrying the Insight on your weapon switch. Then you can just switch back & forth to regen. your mana as needed, and still set the merc up with a better weapon.
     
  14. maareek

    maareek Diabloii.Net Member

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    Your merc's lack of damage is slowing you down more than anything else at the point of the game you are, and will continue to get worse. The merc can output much more damage than your skeletons or your corpse explosion and him using a powerful weapon can make up for you not being able to CE as much by making it not as necessary. CE doesn't scale with p settings and is not that impressive at p8, anyway. You can do things to improve your mana situation such as making Lore (+20 mana and +2 mana per kill which will help alot,) getting a 4 socket armor and putting sapphires in it (if you want to have MF topazes are better, but it all depends on what you want), finding rings that give mana, finding charms, or swapping out the sigon's shield for something like a Rhyme (loses the +skill, which makes CE cheaper while giving increased mana regeneration [which isn't that big of a deal honestly] but also makes your skellies weaker, though it does give some MF.) That said, you should have a minimum of 275 mana from the gear and level you listed, which is 7+ CEs and, while not nearly as much as anyone would like to have, should be enough with potions.

    Alternatively you could do something like tell yourself you only do one round of CEs per encounter or something to keep from having to constantly go back for potions (though even at that each potion should be worth at least 7 CEs and how many CEs are you actually firing off?). Regardless, for what you say you want to do you have to make compromises and give up on some things and drinking potions is less time consuming than waiting around for your no damage army to kill things with your very small damage CE as assistance. If you rate the annoyance of drinking/getting potions higher than the time involved in waiting around inherit to having the merc use the weapon he has now, then that's your decision to make. You asked for suggestions on how to make your character stronger and I've suggested what I think the easiest and most immediately reasonable way is, now whether or not your playstyle and intention for your character corresponds to that suggestion is up to you.

    Edit: uglyfred's suggestion is also very reasonable. CE for a bit then when you run out weapon switch over to the Insight to fill back up. Very effective solution.
     
  15. Maltatai

    Maltatai Diabloii.Net Member

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    How's it going with preventing monster regeneration? I find it annoying enough at /players1 and with the minions tendency to spread out they risk doing very much damage that is regenerated by the enemy before they manage to fell them.
     
  16. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well I found a nice base for Obedience so once I get (if I get that is...) runes for it, I'll try it and give myself the insight on switch, that sounds good and right now losing 3 all skill doesn't kill a skeleton so it might work great.
     
  17. Zenigma

    Zenigma Diabloii.Net Member

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    I would say replace your merc's weapon; insight is nice, but more damage is better. Change out your helm for a +1 skills, because +1 skelly > +2 mastery.
    Consider using a +3 summon skill wand for getting your skellies out. Those things stand out to me more than anything else.
     
  18. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    There is only one thing I am a little afraid when it comes to Obedience... Won't the ice damage shatter like half the corpses? My poor CE won't have feeders. But for now, I remade the insight in better base so that helps some (fck that lvl 12 and 225 ed modes tho...)
     
  19. maareek

    maareek Diabloii.Net Member

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    Obedience's cold damage will chill, not freeze enemies. Chilled enemies have a 20% chance to shatter, so, no, not even anywhere remotely close to half the enemies killed by the merc will shatter.
     
  20. Ergroilnin

    Ergroilnin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Oh that's good to know. Oddly even after all this D2 playing in those years I've never quite learned these chances and various mechanics behind the game, so I must look like a crazy noob (perhaps I am one!). Hopefully I'll get those runes in Hell, the chances aren't that bad.

    Anyway, I finally had the time to finish NM. I gambled +3 summ ammy and Baal was like super good to me and dropped Trang-Oul's armor! Another extra +2 summ and that running speed is yummy as well! The only downside is that I lost 50 MF from the three items partial set bonus of Sigon, so now I have measly **% but whatever. Those 5 summoning skills gave me 2 extra skeletons and almost 1.5x their dmg which is great.

    I finished NM on lvl 75 which seems decent I think. Now the thing I am worried the most about are my crazy negative resistances... Fire is -80 Cold is like -40 and Lighting is -76... Only Poison is +10. I am not really sure if I should trade of some skills for more resists, but considering I am supposed to stand behind my Skelly wall and also considering I don't even have items that would actually increase my resists by much I guess I will be playing more safely.
     

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