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New Game Director

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by In the name of Zod, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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  2. Asteria

    Asteria IncGamers Site Pal

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  3. mrpinsky

    mrpinsky IncGamers Site Pal

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    It's the same job opening, it has been open for many months.
     
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  4. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    The people who meet all requirements set are certainly not people who fully understand Diablo and most importantly the community behind the game. The simple reason being that meeting all those requirements means they have sunk all their available time into their "career". Their career is the focus point in life, not the game and it's community.
    For me this is how I view Blizz at present, a bunch of career guys who seem to have lost all connection with the games' community. It's the very reason D3 turned out the way it is, a polished but empty shell stripped of features and depth.
    Be prepared for a similar development cycle when it comes to D4. Be prepared for another round of devs talking like politicians, explaining features in lengthy posts covering several pages without touching the core issues. Then, just before shipping, axing said features again because after lengthy testing they found feature x is not quite right because of reasons... (another post covering several pages where you think WTF dudes).

    I find it striking the Blizz suits seem to think the only way to have the right D2 successor is to employ people who have outstanding skills in almost everything and must have worked on at least x-number of triple A titles. I bet the best person for this job is somewhere out there but never gets the job because he/she does not meet all the triple A requirements set by the Blizzard suits.
     
    In the name of Zod likes this.
  5. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Really, I thought I would have remembered it. Jeepers, ok my errors. I think one of the last people they got for D3 only months before its release was a specialist in the knowledge in medieval weapon and armor names. One to keep an eye out for. ;)
     
  6. Valeli

    Valeli IncGamers Member

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    - The people who meet all requirements set are certainly not people who fully understand Diablo and most importantly the community behind the game. The simple reason being that meeting all those requirements means they have sunk all their available time into their "career". -

    I'm just about 100% sure that the people who created D1 and D2 took their careers seriously as well. Computer programming and development isn't something you can magically do without putting some effort in. And there's nothing wrong with having worked on AAA titles. Many AAA titles are quite entertaining and the product of a lot of hardwork, dedication, and skill.

    I'd much prefer my Diablo games be created by people like this than some indie hipster kid who designed a 16gb SNES style game and is trying to sell it on Steam. I've seen - maybe - two games like that which pass as actually good.

    There are issues with Blizzards current treatment of D3, certainly. But the staff having carrers and taking their jobs seriously isn't one of those issues. If D3 was hamstrung by anything I suspect it was the design decisions of executives and higher ups. It certainly wasn't hamstrung by the presence of people with skill and dedication.
     
  7. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    Certainly I appreciate the indie movement more then you do because it offers a fresh wind and a movement against the big companies (conglomerates) who have the market in an iron grip mainly because of their huge resources (marketing, advertising). And who narrow the playing field for many talented people. It's a frikking necessity these days just like crowd funding was born as a movement against the banksters.

    More importantly.
    The people who need to steer the rest of the team in the right direction, especially someone like the game director. This guy needs to have a full understanding of the franchise and the players. He needs to know what the players actually want from their game. The players are the customers who are going to spend their money on the title. How they could put a guy like Wilson on the job who didn't have a clue what the players want from a Diablo title is beyond me.

    Wilson was one of the influential people on the team in his position as game director. His decisions left a lasting scar on the game and it's community. You say D3 was not hamstrung by career guy Wilson?
     
  8. Valeli

    Valeli IncGamers Member

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    That's not what I'm saying at all. D3 was definitely hamstrung by Wilson. The game had more issues than I can count, and I firmly hold the opinion that they did a horrible job with it. But the problem wasn't that people worked for companies or that they took their jobs seriously.

    I don't want to get political, but I can help noting that what you're saying reminds me of my country's (US) present politics a lot, and that's not a good thing. I see accusations being made against people who have talent, and are taking what they do seriously. You're blaming companies for being companies. And I don't see how that's not ridiculous.

    There's nothing innately wrong with being a company. There's nothing innately wrong with building a do-it-yourself game either. All that matters is what gets put out, and both methods are at least capable of putting out entertaining stuff. There were plenty of companies making games in the 90's and the 2000's. Nothing magically happened in 2010 that turned them into evil entities.

    Was D3 hamstrung? Sure. I'll agree with that statement. But it was the product of a series of poor decisions. Those decisions and the thought process behind them were a unique feature of Blizzard - not a unique feature of "the evil modern corporate conglomerate". Plenty of modern corporate conglomerates put out great stuff, and it's just our misfortune that Blizzard did not.
     
  9. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    Sorry you don't see the point I make. Of course there's nothing wrong with being a company. I'm not a communist who thinks companies are evil. But there is certainly something wrong with "evil modern corporate conglomerates" who have merged exactly for the reason to become dominant and smother the smaller developers.

    There could be a guy out there who's been playing ARPGs for the last 2 decades. He's part of various game communities and knows exactly what the players want from their game. Moreover he's got great ideas that he's been working out over time. For a developer like Blizzard it would be the next Diablo franchise.
    Now the truth is that the guy has no chance at all. Blizzard would not even take time to interview him to look at the stuff he has to offer. That is the reality. To have a chance he would need to have had education in this direction, xx years experience in the field, worked on x triple A titles etc etc. The job as game director even requires the candidate to make public appearances and give interviews. This is just beyond ridiculous. There's totally nothing wrong with having a spokesman for this purpose who does these kind of things professionally for a living. But bloody triple A Blizzard requires this from their applicants.
    Now what's the point? People who have all those requirements Blizzard asks for will never had time to play ARPGs for the last 2 decades and be part of the game communities full on like our guy in the example. And will for sure not know so well what the players want from their game.

    A company like Blizzard these days doesn't do much good to ARPG development by their very way of recruitment, the closed alpha and beta testing (D3 beta was just a server stress test basically), the use of community managers to engage with the fans on the forums and so on.

    Does it matter for you if you are happy with D3 and find it entertaining. Probably not. My point is that it does matter for me. I believe that Blizzard in it's current form is unable to ever create another D2. And that sucks. Hard.
     
    In the name of Zod likes this.
  10. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    I find it strange you assume that just because someone has a high level education/career, that they can't have much gaming experience, especially if part of their career involves said games. How much playtime is enough? 2 hours/day average? 4? 8? 12? Would someone have to have no more than a part-time job? Be unemployed?

    Also, everybody and their brother has "great ideas". There's a world of difference between having a "great idea" and having a great idea. There's also a world of difference between having a great idea and having a great idea that you know how to actually bring into the world using the technology, people, and resources it actually takes to make it happen. And is it really unreasonable for a company responsible for hundreds of peoples' futures to expect proof that you are that kind of person (i.e. you've actually done it before) before throwing millions of man hours and 10s of millions of dollars after your "great idea"?

    Also, community managers are an unfortunate necessity past a certain scale. Past a certain size, even the most beloved games get nigh unfathomable amounts of seething hatred flung at them (if only 1% of people are angry over a game, 1% of 1,000,000 people is still 10,000 angry people). Community managers are the people who take the hit so the actual people making the game don't slit their own wrists, even if it's a wildly beloved game that 99% of players are basically satisfied with.

    There are plenty of reasons to be disappointed with D3, fearful for D4, and skeptical of the company, but these are not among them.
     
  11. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    @Technomancer

    How you look at it and interpret it is up to you.

    There are people playing 40 hours a week besides having a full time job. I did it. I still play D2.
    When D3 was in development, there was a thread going over at the old Bnet forums where Jay Wilson mentioned he had played D2 he made a sorceress and got her to around level 80. I mean ... lol. And this guy was in the position of game director on the next diablo title.

    Community managers to browse the forum posts to see if there is something useful to pass on to the devs? Sorry I think it's just a bad idea. The longer the chain the worse it will get.
    The devs wouldn't need to follow every poster out there. They could set priorities to a few and ignore the rest. Many things could be done with a little imagination if they're so concerned about shielding them from forum rage.
    The D2 devs interacted with the fans on the forums and they created D2. They still live none slit any wrists I believe.

    Most of you don't agree with me it's fine. I'm out anyway. Didn't buy ROS and I'm not going to. The time I spend on D3 feels like a waste. I spent so much more time on D2 but that's fine I still enjoy it ^_^
     
  12. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Interesting discussion. You guys had mentioned recruiting. Let me say something about companies and recruiting. A comparison to the health device market may be helpful. I have been in sales for over 20 years. I am not in the health device market but have looked at those job advertisements thinking I should have gone that way in my career. Now there's no way I'll ever get in it. They all require 3 years, or 5 years or even 10 years experience in the health market. Not only that but at my level and pay scale those jobs also require current contacts and relationships in the industry. They limit their applicants with these requirements. I happened to be speaking with a recruiter today. He told me that there is no worse market to recruit for than the health market. The arrogance with which they recruit is frustrating to recruiters and many recruiters just don't work in that market due to that.

    Triple A game developers also seem to have that arrogance of recruitment. There is a limited number of people who meet all of those requirements. It's crazy but they also don't want a hundred resumes to go through. Maybe they wrote that job description hoping to attract one of 2 or 3 people they already have their eye on and would like to work for them.
     
  13. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    Thanks Dacar92.

    I'm not working in the industry but I have spent time on game development forums and what you say is exactly what I read there. It's very hard (near impossible) for a person to approach a developer to present what he/she has to offer. It's very frustrating for starting people with good ideas when the market is dominated by a few very big companies. Hence the indie movement.

    ARPGs represent quite a small slice of the pie (of total games sales). Having a company like nowadays Blizzard dominating this small market is not a good thing when people with fresh and exiting ideas don't even get a chance.

    Interesting: Bonfire studios has recently been formed http://www.diabloii.net/blog/commen...nfire-studios-josh-mosqueira-blizzard-leavers

    Quote: We believe that skill and experience are only part of the puzzle – an adventurous spirit, a commitment to excellence and a passion for iteration are essential.

    Perhaps something good will come out of this if they look at what ideas people bring with them and not only the experience they already have.
     
  14. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    I hope something comes out of it. I like the sound of it. Their mention of an adventurous spirit and passion is what makes good people. But it's not just Blizzard. You have other large companies, like Stardock, Bethesda, EA and several others who probably recruit the same way. For me, there are very few Indie games I have actually bought and played more than a few hours. I have many hours in Path of Exile and GGG could be considered a small Indie I guess.
     
  15. D jr

    D jr IncGamers Member

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    I early backed Grim Dawn via kickstarter it is a pretty good ARPG I have many hours in it. Downside is there are no secure servers /
     
  16. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    I like Grim Dawn but haven't put that many hours in it yet.
     

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