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New barb weapon

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by matjex, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. matjex

    matjex IncGamers Member

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    I made an extra grief for my frenzy barb. Poor guy got his present taken from him when I made an enigma and needed the second grief for a pit barb. Now they are both grief PB's, and I'm considering to give him a Death.

    Question is - should I make a death in a colossus blade/sword or wait till I can make both grief and death in BA's?

    Colossus blade is the fastest, but still not as fast as a PB, is it a waste to put in a CB?
     
  2. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure how much do you play, but Death is pretty inexpensive runeword to make (Vex and Gul are not exactly that rare), so you can go ahead and make it without concerning yourself will you be able to find runes to make it also in BA. Unless you need Vex and Gul runes for something else.
     
  3. matjex

    matjex IncGamers Member

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    Yeah you are right, I should probably just try it out. thanks :D
     
  4. LiquidClear

    LiquidClear IncGamers Member

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    Just spitballing here, but have you done any speed calculations? With Frenzy the -30 base speed on PB's has always persuaded me to use them in the past, especially since Grief (primary weapon) ignores the base damage when adding 340-400. In the past I've used Grief PB/Death CS (I think it was sword and not blade, it's on old computer so not sure) and it kills just fine, although Death freezes corpses which is annoying if Find Item is being used. Basically I'm just saying there's no reason to "wait" for BA's because IMO Frenzy barbs should end up using swords anyways. Also the -5 difference between CS and CB will probably be a moot point depending on other gear, so it may be best to just go with the bigger damage number.
     
  5. matjex

    matjex IncGamers Member

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    Haven't done any speed calculations, but it probably won't be a problem when he is boosted from frenzy. Thank you very much, I will make my CB death then :)
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    In addition to what LiquidClear wrote, a BA has a rather low durability and it will need a lot of repair. Finally, BAs look silly on barbs.
     
  7. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    Death has indestructible mod though

    Do you have to worry about disparate rangeadders when dual wielding? PB has 1 and all twohanders have 2.
     
  8. zemaj

    zemaj IncGamers Member

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    Frenzy speed-bugging should work out awesomely with that big a disparity between weapon speed mods. Can't remember all the why/how it works, aside from it messes with how the game figures between 'primary' and 'secondary' weapons, but it's easy. Unequip weapons, put faster weapon on boots-side, slower on gloves-side. Biggest annoyance is anytime you go to town, waypoint, change areas, etc. game resets glove-side to primary. Easily fixed just by picking up and putting back down the glove-side (slower) weapon, reverting the boot-side (faster) weapon to primary. Can get a bit tedious, especially if you're still doing play-through, but can really make odd-ball weapon choices shine. Had a tourney frenzy barb that used schaffer's/sweet rare, and had to continuously speed bug him to even be playable (to my way of thinking, anyway).

    Depends on how you feel about whiffing every other swing. Yes, this could be problematic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  9. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I know that frenzy charges up and that the duration counter is reset on each hit, but I have never really understood attack speed and the frenzy speed bug. So far, I simply put the faster weapon into the slot at the left side of the character screen. By the way, that's the barb's right hand, something which might cause a lot of confusion, so I'm using the term "slot".

    Let's say, weapon A with a base speed of M and X% IAS is in the left slot and weapon B with base speed N and Y% IAS is in the right slot.

    Q1: Regarding speed, in which way do M, N, X and Y matter?

    Q2: Regarding the bug, what happens to attack speed if A hits? What happens if A misses and B hits?

    To my knowledge, the left weapon's IAS value is used on both weapons, but B's base speed matters. Or is it the IAS of the first weapon that hits?

    I made a few experiments with this calculator (aka TitanSeal's calculator), but I doubt that it produces accurate results. For example, if I choose phase blade as first weapon and colossus sword as second, I get better IAS breakpoints than with two phase blades. That makes no sense!
     
  10. zemaj

    zemaj IncGamers Member

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    this post should answer your questions, I believe.

    IIRC, TitanSeal's calc should be accurate.


    EDIT:
    I'm currently at work, and only casually glanced at that post, but I'll try more Google-fu later if it doesn't answer
     
  11. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Well, I know the calculator and its predecessor and propagated its use in these forums for more than 10 years. I just haven't made that many frenzy tests with it so far. If that calculator is accurate, it means that frenzy is faster with a phase blade and a colossus sword than with two phase blades. I don't think that's the case :).

    BTW, another posting in your link strengthen's my suspicion: https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/beginner-frenzy-barb.738074/page-7#post-7272790

    Regarding your link, I'm a bit confused about this:

    So why has the whole been mentioned at all then? That's not a rhetorical question. I know that Onderduiker knows a lot about the game, so there must be a reason. Perhaps it's for the sake of completeness, so it covers double swing as well?

    When reading the last posting of the thread, it seems that I'm accurate with my assumption that for frenzy, it depends on which weapon is put into which slot and that only the IAS of the left slot is relevant. With other words, I have to take care to equip e.g. Grief left and Death right, no matter in which order (which I found out through experiments IIRC). Is that the frenzy bug?

    I could make further tests, but I currently have no frenzy barb, although I'm playing with the thought of starting one :).
     
  12. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps Frenzy has similar WSM bug as claws? With claws bug is applied in a way to put faster claw above the boots and slower claw above the gloves, then simply every time you switch to your claws, simply lift and put down your slower glove-side claw which will make your boot's side claw primary now, but there is a glitch in WSM formula, so they will be bugged now. How bugged?

    Assume playing without the bug. Best combination is of two -30 claws, right? So, average WSM is -30, rigth? Assume now you use -30 claw like Runic and 0 claw like Suwayyah. Average WSM is -15, right? But, if you do use bug, their average WSM after the bug will not be -15, but -45 instead which makes Suwayyah + Runic Talons to be faster combo than Runic + Runic.

    I have no idea is the similar thing applied here. Frenzy would be even better if you don't use switch at all because once you use switch, bug must be reapplied again which makes it only PvP-doable thing rather than used in PvM.
     
  13. zemaj

    zemaj IncGamers Member

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    Exactly the same, Griph. Ty, that was much more eloquent than I could have put it checking over my shoulder for my boss every min.

    In point of fact, it's not a 'Frenzy' bug at all... I suppose a more accurate name would be 'Dual-wield WSM equip order bug' as it applies to any dual wielding char. (So pretty much sins & barbs). My bad, I'll have to watch my nomenclature more carefully :)
     
  14. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Acording to zemaj's link, it applies to all dual-wielding skills, but it's different with frenzy.
     
  15. zemaj

    zemaj IncGamers Member

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    After-work forum-dive dug up this thread, which was actually linked to in the thread I linked earlier. Especially the last two posts (second is onderduiker quoting from the amazon basin's sister-thread) should clarify how frenzy differs from other attacks wrt WSM bugging, somewhat.

    It is not specified if the TitanSeal calc was ever updated for this, but I did not check the sister-thread at the basin, it may say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  16. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    I don't think the calculator ever got updated. At least that's what the AB wiki seems to imply.
     

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