New Avenger Build

[Vesio]

there is only one problem about an avenger who doesn't use vengeance. it ceases to be an avenger. oh yeah and if you hesitate to use any skill that only attacks one enemy at a time then you are stuck using zeal because that is the ONLY paladin skill that hits more than one enemy at a time (except for FOH but that's only cuz of holy bolt. a case might be made for BH but if i remember right a hammer only hits one enemy and disappears and each cast is an attack in my book.)

 

[ash2ash]

there is only one problem about an avenger who doesn't use vengeance. it ceases to be an avenger. oh yeah and if you hesitate to use any skill that only attacks one enemy at a time then you are stuck using zeal because that is the ONLY paladin skill that hits more than one enemy at a time (except for FOH but that's only cuz of holy bolt. a case might be made for BH but if i remember right a hammer only hits one enemy and disappears and each cast is an attack in my book.)

That's true - I'm planning to call my build an elemental zealot, but the fact is that I got the idea while building an avenger, so I say it's a spinoff

You're right. Zeal is the ONLY skill the paladin has that effectively hits more than one enemy at a time, and that's why I use it. I also use vengeance, but only if I wanna deal massive damage to a single monster in a pack of enemies. If it's a boss on its own, I find it much faster just to zeal since I can zeal at least a 2:1 ratio of hits as vengeance (my vengeance does about 2500 more than one swing of zeal, so it's kind of a tossup)

 

[Aron Figaro]

Hammers go through enemies...and don't just look at Conviction when you look at Avengers. I've seen a few good Holy Freeze Avengers as well...but Conviction is an amazing backup aura, if it's not the main one.

 

[lextalionis]

there is only one problem about an avenger who doesn't use vengeance. it ceases to be an avenger. oh yeah and if you hesitate to use any skill that only attacks one enemy at a time then you are stuck using zeal because that is the ONLY paladin skill that hits more than one enemy at a time (except for FOH but that's only cuz of holy bolt. a case might be made for BH but if i remember right a hammer only hits one enemy and disappears and each cast is an attack in my book.)

I respectfully disagree with you Vesio. Any guide Avengers have lots of problems (Mana, Attack Speed). Zeal solves both of these problems. And while it might technically be another build. I think any conversation about Avengers should examine this "Elemental Zealot" and compare the Avenger to the Elemental ZEalot. In effect, if the Avenger can't do more damage over time than the Elemental Zealot, and the Elemental Zealot is easier on mana and the Elemental Zealot is easier on skill points allowing you to either create a secondary attack or beef up your defenses.

The best thing about Avengers is not Vengenance... Its the fact that they use the Conviction Aura. The Elemental Zealot uses the conviction aura, but probably a lot more efficiently.

Avengers really are not an elite build like Meteororb, Blizzard, Windy, Trapassin, Hammerdin, Zealot, etc. Because they don't have the raw killing power and because even a lot of pure physical damage zealots do the Elemental Zealot thing on weapon switch with the Conviction Aura. Unless you have an Avenger build that can rival this, I wouldn't shut down people talking about Elemental Zealots.

Ash2Ash, I know there was a guide for Elemental Zealots in 1.09, it was obviously a lot different since no synergies existed back then, but I think a new guide on the subject would be welcomed. Be sure to make a good descrioption of how and when you use Vengenance in the guide. Because, I'm not sure you will be doing more damage to a single target with Vengance. Good Luck and I'll be looking forward to your guide.

 

[BlackWinterDay]

Vengence is not as slow as some people make it out to be. I know I was hesitant to try it at first, but now that I am down to around 10 FPA it's not bad at all. I will hit 9 FPA before my build is done!

 

[lextalionis]

Vengence is not as slow as some people make it out to be. I know I was hesitant to try it at first, but now that I am down to around 10 FPA it's not bad at all. I will hit 9 FPA before my build is done!

Zeal attacks at 4-5fpa, so you'd need to be doing more than twice as much damage with your setup that a zealer can do. Equation should always be damage over time, and if you can show that you are doing more than twice what a good zealer does in damage than I think people would have to pay more attention to Vengance as an attack.

 

[Vesio]

I respectfully disagree with you Vesio. Any guide Avengers have lots of problems (Mana, Attack Speed). Zeal solves both of these problems. And while it might technically be another build. I think any conversation about Avengers should examine this "Elemental Zealot" and compare the Avenger to the Elemental ZEalot. In effect, if the Avenger can't do more damage over time than the Elemental Zealot, and the Elemental Zealot is easier on mana and the Elemental Zealot is easier on skill points allowing you to either create a secondary attack or beef up your defenses.

The best thing about Avengers is not Vengenance... Its the fact that they use the Conviction Aura. The Elemental Zealot uses the conviction aura, but probably a lot more efficiently.

Avengers really are not an elite build like Meteororb, Blizzard, Windy, Trapassin, Hammerdin, Zealot, etc. Because they don't have the raw killing power and because even a lot of pure physical damage zealots do the Elemental Zealot thing on weapon switch with the Conviction Aura. Unless you have an Avenger build that can rival this, I wouldn't shut down people talking about Elemental Zealots.

Ash2Ash, I know there was a guide for Elemental Zealots in 1.09, it was obviously a lot different since no synergies existed back then, but I think a new guide on the subject would be welcomed. Be sure to make a good descrioption of how and when you use Vengenance in the guide. Because, I'm not sure you will be doing more damage to a single target with Vengance. Good Luck and I'll be looking forward to your guide.

with all due respect i wasn't trying to get him to stop looking at the elemental zealot, i was simply saying that if you play an avenger you have to use vengeance as your main attack. an elemental zealer is still a zealot and not an avenger, even if he uses vengeance as a secondary attack. I agree that conviction is the coolest part of being an avenger, but that is far from what makes him an avenger. a zealot, hammerdin, vindicator, crusader, templar, martyr, medic, missionary etc. all derive their names from their main attack so must the avenger. I wasn't deriding the elemental zealot build in any way just stating the fact that without vengeance as your attack you can't have an avenger.

 

[ash2ash]

with all due respect i wasn't trying to get him to stop looking at the elemental zealot, i was simply saying that if you play an avenger you have to use vengeance as your main attack. an elemental zealer is still a zealot and not an avenger, even if he uses vengeance as a secondary attack. I agree that conviction is the coolest part of being an avenger, but that is far from what makes him an avenger. a zealot, hammerdin, vindicator, crusader, templar, martyr, medic, missionary etc. all derive their names from their main attack so must the avenger. I wasn't deriding the elemental zealot build in any way just stating the fact that without vengeance as your attack you can't have an avenger.

Point taken - I admit it was very unbecoming for a avenger to replace vengeance with zeal - I'll post the elemental zealot guide up soon (being a relative term ), so hopefully this will delinate the elemental zealot from the avenger.

 

[Yochefguy]

You really need to max both Vengence and Conviction. Every point put in Vengence increases your elemental damage by 18% (6% per element) instead of 10% of one element for the resist auras. Plus, V. maxed gives you a better chance to hit, which is always important for a Pali. As for Conviction, your skill level needs to hit 25 with plus skill items to reach the max of -150% enemy resists. Anything more is a waste, so choose to allocate skill points with 25 being the final goal. So if you have +10 to skills, only 15 points need to go into Conviction. With -150% enemy resists, you should be able to get most any Hell monster down to -100% in two elemental categories. That means, for example, that a typical Lightning Immune monster will take double the Fire and Cold damage from Vengence. It's very important to max both Vengence and Conviction to get the most possible elemental damage. Trust me, you will regret not maxing these two skills.

Those extra 20 points will have to come out of the individual resist skills. I suggest you keep lightning resist maxed and bring the other two skills down to 10 each. Two reasons: 1) Lightning is the most important element for that extra 5% max to resist, and 2) Lightning Immunity is the easiest immunity for Conviction to break. Maxed Conviction can break up to 129% immunities. The max lightning immunity for any creature is 130%. Therefore, the extra lightning damage will be more useful.

I suggest the following allocation:

10 resist fire
10 resist cold
20 resist lightning
1 Salvation
20 Vengence
10 Holy shield
20 Conviction

You'll be MUCH happier with this setup, I think. Of course, you may want to tinker with the individual resist amounts if the asymetry on the resist skills bothers you.

Cheers.
:drink:

I have been looking at your stat allocation and the one in the avenger guide. I am confused on if I should put a point into meditation and redemption. Also, is it better to max resist lightning or holy shield? Any info you might have would be helpful, thanks.

 

[BlackWinterDay]

I have been looking at your stat allocation and the one in the avenger guide. I am confused on if I should put a point into meditation and redemption. Also, is it better to max resist lightning or holy shield? Any info you might have would be helpful, thanks.

I am personally quite lazy, so I rely on leech and potions to get me through where others may use those auraus. If you will use them then sure, put points in them but if you won't then don't bother. I would max resist lightning for the added damage before maxing holy shield. With + skill items you really should be fine with just 10 points in HS. My skill allocation is going to look like:

Vengence - 20
Conviction - 20
Resist Fire - 20
Resist Cold - 10
Resist Light - 10
Holy Shield - 10

I am maxing fire as opposed to light as I will be using Hand of Justice + Dragonscale.

 

[agaetis]

I have been looking at your stat allocation and the one in the avenger guide. I am confused on if I should put a point into meditation and redemption. Also, is it better to max resist lightning or holy shield? Any info you might have would be helpful, thanks.

Redemption is a must, yes. I forgot to add it. In my head, it went into the same category as the pre-requisites. It's that important. Since the Avenger is a somewhat mana-intensive tnking build, you'll need the Redemption for filling up your mana and life pools in between/during battles. It's also great for making sure monsters stay dead. For example, draw act 2 undead away from the Unravellers, kill them, and then use Redemption on the bodies to make sure they cannot be revived. It'll make your life so much easier. No Meditation is needed IMO. The other people in your game should be kissing your butt enough for b0rking enemy resists and defense that they can take care of their own mana needs. :rant:

Max Holy Shield vs. Max Lightning Resist. Well, I'll defer to your better judgement. I know, that's a cop out. Really, it depends on your gear and style of play. The % chance to block drops pretty sharply after about level 14 on Holy Shield. However, 10 points more in Holy Shield will give you 150% more defense and it will last for 2.5 more minutes. 10 more points in Lightning Resist will give you an increase in Lightning damage equal to the base damage of your weapon and +5% max lightning resist. Really, it depends on what equipment yu have and what your style of play is. You said you have GA, right? The max to lightning resist isn't very important to you, then, especially if you have TGod's belt. What you need to decide is how important an extra ~150 lightning damage is compared with an extra 150% defense. You don't have to go with one or the other, you know. You could have, say, 14 points in HS and 16 points in LR. If you had an HoZ, that would give you a slvl of 18 on both before other skill bonuses were added. Not a bad trade-off IMO.

Now, I must be going. I got screwed o B-Net last night and I need to get some more items. I haven't played much this ladder season and I was playing solo while building an Avenger. At level 29, I went into the Pit of Acheron on the Arreat Plateau in Act V. A pack of Hell Lords with the Extra Strong mod were right near the entrance and my connection was lagging pretty bad for some reason. Long story short, I ended up surrounded before I could do anything and I got killed. Then my connection crapped out while I was making the long run back to retrieve my body and the roll back was at a point AFTER I died. So I lost my gear and a chunk of gold. :grrr: I am thankful that this happened on normal and not after I had accumulated items for Hell. At least this way I'll be able to recover reasonably easily. If anyone has some crap items that they are going to toss, I'd be greatful if you could toss one my way. (whisper *jmlovero) Okay, okay, I'll stop whining and begging now. :lol:

I hope this helps.
Cheers,
:drink:

 

[agaetis]

Okay, I'm an idiot. I still have all of my items. Sometimes the shock of seeing your character without any gear makes you forget that your body will be back in town waiting for you when you make a new game.