New assassin player seeking advice (on low lvl pvp)

[TheBigClown]

New assassin player seeking advice (on low lvl pvp)

Hi all. This is probbably my first post in this forum - I've never been into assassins before now. I got some question that I would like to know the answer off - and advice in genral My goal is to make a low lvl pvp kicksin.

I guess when we choose what lvl our low lvl pvp character should have, we look at the items and skills available, and choose the lowest that will do the most damage. And the lower character lvl we can make with big damage, the happier we get. Speaking of damage does max damage on items work for a kicksin? I know ed on items does - but max damage?

Getting into the assassin bps have proven to be a jungle for me. But that isn't my biggest concern - eventually I'll get into it and be able to do the right calculations. My biggest concern is the skills and gear options.

Skills
My main skill will be Dragon Talon. I'm probbably going for a lvl 25 character, so I'll have 36 skills points available. So my skills will be a good lvl Dtalon, Dflight, CM, BoS, MB (just lvl 1) and WoF (just lvl 1). And perhaps Fade? This is an okay skill distribution right?

Gear
Lvl 25 probbably seams a bit high, but boots aren't just made for walking. I have decided (allmost) to wear War Boots. I will rather do high damage and have lower life than having high life and doing low damage. Is this way off, considering that War Boots have a str req of 125?

Weapon - Long Sword Spirit
Gloves - Deaths gloves / Bloodfist
Belt - Deaths belt / ?
Armour - Twitchthroe / 3 sox Mage Plate of the Colossus
Helm?
Shield - 3 sox Dragon Sheild of deflection / Ryhme - I'm not sure about the lvl req on this - enlighten me :smiley:

The 3 sox on shield and armour comes from the magic prefix Artisan's which will make the lvl req of these 25. Artisan's prefix has (33) which will make it 33/4 * 3 = 24,75. Right?

What's a good socketing plan for a kicksin?

This is what I have thought about. Any advise is very much apreciated - even if you would advise me to go for a completely other charachter lvl, as long as it's low and for a kicksin.

I hope to get alot of advise :wave:

Edit: Rings and amulet - Angelic

 

[Arbedark]

• Don't use Spirit - MDR bug
  
• Max damage doesnt work with Kicks
  
• IIRC ED from jewels doesn't work with kicks either...
  
• Artisans is 25 Yes
  
• Upped Gobline Toe (level 30) = Very good LLD kicker boots - Nice damage and CB. Other choice is to go for a nice rare set of Rare War Boots with FRW (30 would be best) - FHR, Res and stats. I prefer the nice CB though.
  
• Angy Rings and Amu = good choice. Help beat Conc barbs which is what Kicksins are best at tbh.
  
• If you go to level 30 you get Venom which is the best source of damage for a kicker
  
• At level 30 a 2 sock +2 Shadow, 20 FCR, 30 FRW circlet would be best (other mods ofc welcome! )
  
• If you go level 30 get pre-buff claws on switch
  
• Try and get 42 FCR bp for nice stunlocking
  
• Weapon choice at 30 is quite personal - Steel Flail is a good cheap option
  
• Since you need to spend so much in str a shield option might be EldEldEld ATSoD or AKSoD. Getting an ADSoD is much more effort than its worth.
  
• Only use CBF in the duels where you need CBF - Otherwise use a different piece of eq - Replace Deaths belt with String or Rhyme (level 29 req btw) with Another shield if you don't need the CBF
  
• Socketing PSkulls or PRuby's is best option for a Kicksin really - Life Rep or extra Life is always welcome.

Don't think I've missed anything there.

 

[TheBigClown]

• Don't use Spirit - MDR bug
  
• Max damage doesnt work with Kicks
  
• IIRC ED from jewels doesn't work with kicks either...
  
• Artisans is 25 Yes
  
• Upped Gobline Toe (level 30) = Very good LLD kicker boots - Nice damage and CB. Other choice is to go for a nice rare set of Rare War Boots with FRW (30 would be best) - FHR, Res and stats. I prefer the nice CB though.
  
• Angy Rings and Amu = good choice. Help beat Conc barbs which is what Kicksins are best at tbh.
  
• If you go to level 30 you get Venom which is the best source of damage for a kicker
  
• At level 30 a 2 sock +2 Shadow, 20 FCR, 30 FRW circlet would be best (other mods ofc welcome! )
  
• If you go level 30 get pre-buff claws on switch
  
• Try and get 42 FCR bp for nice stunlocking
  
• Weapon choice at 30 is quite personal - Steel Flail is a good cheap option
  
• Since you need to spend so much in str a shield option might be EldEldEld ATSoD or AKSoD. Getting an ADSoD is much more effort than its worth.
  
• Only use CBF in the duels where you need CBF - Otherwise use a different piece of eq - Replace Deaths belt with String or Rhyme (level 29 req btw) with Another shield if you don't need the CBF
  
• Socketing PSkulls or PRuby's is best option for a Kicksin really - Life Rep or extra Life is always welcome.

Don't think I've missed anything there.

First of all - this is exactly what I'm looking for :thumbsup: though I got some problems with understanding all what you say. Second - I'm not too happy about making a lvl 30 char. I don't know why, it's just some feeling I got in my stomach... I'll stick with my original plan and make a lvl 25 for now - perhaps she will become lvl 30 when I get beaten to death all the time

The question
1) MDR bug?
2) IIRC = ?
3) tbh = ?

 

[PrkChopXpress]

First of all - this is exactly what I'm looking for :thumbsup: though I got some problems with understanding all what you say. Second - I'm not too happy about making a lvl 30 char. I don't know why, it's just some feeling I got in my stomach... I'll stick with my original plan and make a lvl 25 for now - perhaps she will become lvl 30 when I get beaten to death all the time

The question
1) MDR bug?
2) IIRC = ?
3) tbh = ?

Here's a good explanation of the MDR (magic damage reduction) bug. Basically, if you're not going to do masive elemental damage, you should completely avoid doing any elemental damage.

IIRC = if I recall correctly

tbh = to be honest

And you should really think about going up to lvl30. Thirty is generally recognized as the high-lld breakpoint (Llld=9 Mlld=18 Hlld=30). So lvl25 is too high to be considered a mid-lld'er and too low to be anywhere near competitive against other Hlld'ers.

 

[TheBigClown]

Thx for the explanations and link PrkChopXpress. I suddenly understand why spirit would be a bad weapon for me!

Would a lvl 18 kicksin be any good? Would there be any boots good enough for wearing?

I'm still not happy about a lvl 30 character, but i get your point, which seams to sum it all up.

Edit: Arbedark - I'm possitive that ed on gear is counted into the kick damage. The thread "Kicking Basics" says:

Kick Damage Equation

MinDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMinDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

MaxDamage=(str + dex - 20) / 3 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMaxDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

Edit 2: As long as we don't put ed jewels into our weapons that is.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Thx for the explanations and link PrkChopXpress. I suddenly understand why spirit would be a bad weapon for me!

Would a lvl 18 kicksin be any good? Would there be any boots good enough for wearing?

I'm still not happy about a lvl 30 character, but i get your point, which seams to sum it all up.

I'm not positive, but I'd think that a lvl18 kicker could work pretty good. As for the boots, don't bother with any of the uniques. You're best bet would be rare or maybe crafted (saftey) greaves. Sig's boots would be another reasonable option. Sig's will be much cheaper and much easier to find, but rare or crafted greaves have much more potential.

 

[Arbedark]

30 Really is the best level for a LLD kicker.

As for the ED, I wasn't too sure but if it's in kicking basics then I'll assume its correct until someone else prooves it wrong.

That said, ED from jewels won't be worth it for a LLDer. Going for Stat jewels or pgems is a better bet really.

Level 18 Kickers shouldn't rely on kick damage that much, instead concentrating on cb to get the life down quickly.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

At lvl18, the only sources of CB I can find would be the Gnasher (20%), Crushflange (33%), Knell Striker (25%), Rixot's Keen (25%), and the only off-weapon CB comes from Blood Gloves (10%). So at best you're looking at 43% CB, and you still need a way to finished them off once the CB stops being effective. I really don't think it'd be wise to use anything other than greaves for a mlld kicker. Getting CB from your weapon and gloves (although Bloodfist are awfully hard to pass up) is never a bad idea, though.

 

[Arbedark]

At lvl18, the only sources of CB I can find would be the Gnasher (20%), Crushflange (33%), Knell Striker (25%), Rixot's Keen (25%), and the only off-weapon CB comes from Blood Gloves (10%). So at best you're looking at 43% CB, and you still need a way to finished them off once the CB stops being effective. I really don't think it'd be wise to use anything other than greaves for a mlld kicker. Getting CB from your weapon and gloves (although Bloodfist are awfully hard to pass up) is never a bad idea, though.

I never said don't wear greaves. I just said its not the main source of damage. CB is the best source of damage for a kicker at 18. Although I've heard some good things about Steel Flail kickers too.

33% from Crushflange is all you need on a kicker really though. It should trigger nearly twice a second with that %age.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Oh, ok. I thought you were insinuating that greaves weren't necessary because the damage wasn't as important as getting CB.

 

[crawlingdeadman]

this is becoming a really common topic maybe someone should do some more in depth guides...

stuff about lvl 9 ts sin (i know you didnt ask about it but they're fun too)

stuff about 18 kicker.

little bit about lvl 30

more about 30

more 30

ps. the guide in the stickie isnt really all that good. it's long and has some decent info, but it's missing some things and it's wrong at times.

 

[TheBigClown]

First of all I would like to thank you all for some very needed advise :smiley: I'm posting an update on my kicksin - hoping to get some more advise :smiley:

I have read the links crawlingdeadman (have read em before), thanks - but to be honest it I didn't digg em :sad2: I have read em before, and I still think it's kinda poor information for a new player. I'm a new assassin player and I don't need to know which items I should use - I need to know why I should be using them, and I need an indepth comparison. I'm not at all saying that your help isn't apreaciated - it is :smiley:

My character is now lvl 30 (she would have been lvl 25 if you guys hadn't told me not to, for this I'm happy - very). I need some advise on weapons primarily. I'm probbably gonna wear Goblin Toe. Now for the questions, conserning Steel Flail, Strenght Runeword and Crushflange: I'm under the impression, that this is the only good options I have - if I have forgotten some, I would like to know. Assuming that my boots will be Goblin Toe instead of a rare/crafted pair, which one would be the better choice between Strenght and Crushflange? Crushflange offers 8% cb and 50% fire res, where Strenght offer 5 str, 10 vit, 7%ll and 20% ias (given that it's a Blade Talons). Wouldn't Strenght be the better choise, keeping in mind that Goblin Toe already has a good amount of cb? Strenght even has the advantage of having + to skills. How big is the difference between 50% cb and 58% cb, keeping in mind the different bonus' Crushflange and Strenght gives? Next question (on ow): wouldn't ow offer low damage for a lvl 30 character? How good is it (I have no experience with ow)? I have tried to find the ow formula, but I can't seam to find it.

 

[crawlingdeadman]

that's kinda why i said it'd be nice if there was a new guide. anyway you've forgotten the weapon i use which is a blade talon with massive ias. using blade talons and having 70% ias lets you use fade over bos. this allows you to not have to worry much about resists and it also has the hidden 1% per level dr%.

with my normal set up i wind up not having any crushing blow (no gtoes) and honestly i dont miss it on her. if i come up against a barb or druid with a huge amount of life i'll then switch my rare boots for gtoes.

 

[TheBigClown]

Is the hidden dr on Fade only a bonus that is given with the hard points invetsted, and is the bonus only working when Fade is active?

 

[Arbedark]

+ Skills affect the DR on fade, and yes, it only works when Fade is active.

Another weapon option = 2 Socket Blade Talons with Amp damage - 2 Shaels etc to hit the magical 7/3 kick sequence.

I wouldn't go for Crushflange or Strength on a level 30 Kicker really as as CDM said, the CB isn't as essential for 30's although it's definately a nice mod to have. Upped Goblin Toe are just an easy option of boots to go for, rares would be better, but its pretty hard to find mods which outweigh Upped Goblin Toes (IMO).

Steel Flail gives 25 Ias and 50% OW, the only 2 useful mods really aside from the inherent Range 3 (useful in certin duels). OW is nice in LLD as in HLD, but if you REALLY need the OW you can just get a Swordback Hold to get 50%.

Finally, Strength can't spawn with + Skills on Blade Talons, only on Handscythes, which are a measly -10 Base.

 

[TheBigClown]

Okay. Should I go for War Boots or should I be satisfied with Battle boots? Bwt I'm a ladder player - just started playing again due to the new ladder season :smiley: