New Assassin player here. Suggestions?

[CrimsonDuckling]

New Assassin player here. Suggestions?

Hello everybody.

This is my first post in the assassins forum because for some reason I never played one when the expansion came along (I've also been on a 5 year hiatus from DII until about a month ago).

When I started playing again I made an untwinked fishymancer who got a near perfect Bartuc's (199% ed, 8% leech) from NM Baal yesterday. I also got a near perfect String of Ears, Skin of the Vipermagi and Ravenfrost. That's as far as my findings got sofar.

So, I figured I may as well put it to use and finally try out the Assassin. My question to you is: is there any build you could suggest to me that really makes the most out of Bartuc's claw? I'm the kind of player who likes to get into the fray and hack away at enemies, so using lots of traps probably isn't my thing. I read through most of the guides but since I'm very new at this class I couldn't really make up my mind. I should probably use the charge up skills and kicks?

Any help is very much appreciated! =)

 

[Jaquiezz]

Glad you finally decided to play assassins, they are the most flexible and fun characters in my mind.

If you want a bit of hack and slash pvm fun, then there are several builds I recommend. A Tiger Strike/Dragon Tail build is sweet, doesn't have a huge problem with immunities, and kills at a decent speed. Very fun.

The build that I think would really suit you the most is a straight up kicker. An excellent boss killer, they are one of the coolest chars out there. They don't need great gear, and that makes them a great 2 or later character(maybe a little too advanced to be someones first). If you are set on using bartucs, it would be more then good for a kicker- it has good base speed, which is all a kicker cares about, and excellent mods. Very few others sin builds would use this because it has low damage, but it really is an excellent kicker claw. Any gear with crushing blow is fit for this build- being able to attack at 3fpa means crushing blow is huge. having 80%+ will mean that all monsters fall regardless of how much health they have. If you've ever dreamed of ubering, this build will allow you to conquer them with just self found gear and a little trading. It will make you wonder why people fear them in the first place.

Plenty of kicker builds out there, so look em up. Don't waste time with chargeup skills, they suck. Do next to no damage and are ineffective in hell.

Hope this sparks your interest

 

[stephan]

Actually, a Bartucs is a lousy DTalon weapon. Besides speed and some leech it doesn't carry anything useful for kicks.

Bartucs is great for a TS/DTail build or a Phoenix Striker which, contrary to what the above poster says, works fine in Hell.

 

[CrimsonDuckling]

Thanks for the replies! =)

I forgot to mention I play PvM only, I have other online games for my PvP desires. I also just found the gloves from the Trang Oul set, which give a nice bonus to poison skills. I read in a guide somewhere that a Venom assassin is nice to play too?

So far the charge up skills like Tiger and Phoenix Strike seem most interesting to me.

I don't really care about the übers too much yet, since my level 74 Fishymancer and level 72 Fanatical Zealot still get their asses kicked in Act 1 Hell. I imagine the übers, of which I read a lot but never encountered, are still far from interesting targets for me.

 

[Jaquiezz]

A Phoenix Striker is the equivelant to tickling the monsters to death. It takes at least two hits to even release a charge, if not 3 or 4. Phoenix strike is a slow attack compared to dtalon (or practically any other attack for that matter), and only dishes out maybe 4k lighting damage with decent gear and fully synergized. Sounds like a really crappy lighting sorce to me. Just make an avenger if you want all different kinds of damage, at least you don't have to be annoyed with hitting an enemy the exact right amount of times to deal paltry damage, and you deal 4 types of damage per hit, with good damage.

For some one with limited funds, Bartucs is more then enough to get through hell. It has great mods, and is a well balanced weapon. What are you looking for, huge CB? He doesn't have a plethora of weapons at his disposal.

A fishy isn't very good at ubers with out well... uber gear. You need at least an enigma and plenty of +skills gear. A zealot is almost as gear dependant, but cb, decent attack speed and paladins shields make them a decent choice. As I previously stated, a kicker will take you much much closer to the reality of ubering then you thought possible, lots closer then a fishy or lot certainly.

 

[marzin]

definately get venom, as crushing blow does not break physical immues.

bartucs is a so-so d-talon weapon, d-talon is a good way to continuous apply crushing blow (see one of the warrior-monk builds) but it shines when it can use the +3 to martial arts. a synergized pstriker will do fine in hell, but i would suggest going dual claw and using dragon claw.

regardless, for all the builds discussed, max venom. if you dont have traps its your best friend.

 

[midevillw]

you have alrdy found some nice gear that is quite useable im experimenting with a build and that same gear will be some of the equipment that i will use atleast tempararly pm me if you would like more specifics as when i post my ideas about this build so far in a thread the responces are not always friendly

 

[brokensvt]

Slightly OT: Try using capitalization and break your sentences down with punctuation. That tends to get better responses, as this isn't Bnet. Additionally you should likely do a bit more research before throwing your ideas around. I remember you saying something about a 3os Guillaumes, for instance.

 

[stephan]

A Phoenix Striker is the equivelant to tickling the monsters to death. It takes at least two hits to even release a charge, if not 3 or 4. Phoenix strike is a slow attack compared to dtalon (or practically any other attack for that matter), and only dishes out maybe 4k lighting damage with decent gear and fully synergized. Sounds like a really crappy lighting sorce to me. Just make an avenger if you want all different kinds of damage, at least you don't have to be annoyed with hitting an enemy the exact right amount of times to deal paltry damage, and you deal 4 types of damage per hit, with good damage.

Just because you aren't one-hit killing everything doesn't mean it is not a viable build, or that is not a fun build to play.

For some one with limited funds, Bartucs is more then enough to get through hell.

'Strength' in a Blade Talon would be a better kicking weapon than a Bartucs. Amns and Tirs aren't exactly the rarest runes, are they?

 

[CrimsonDuckling]

Before I stopped playing, a Bartuc's was pretty much the only way to go for an Assassin. I guess things changed a bit since then. =P

Thank you for all the suggestions. I didn't decide on which route to take yet but will have to soon. I took my lady Sapphar (Europe Realm, ladder) to Act IV and level 19 yesterday and equipped her with Sigon's gloves, belt and shield, aCathan's armor and 2 rings, Threads of Cthon for boots until I reach level 22 for Goblin Toe. She currently wields Bloodrise, putting her total life leech at 27%.

I didn't invest in any skills yet, just some stats. I won't be able to keep this up for long though.

Decisions, decisions!

 

[PrkChopXpress]

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I just can't pimp the TS/DTail build enough. It's the most fun I've had in D2 (and like you, I have much more fun hacking at stuff than sitting back and letting traps have all the fun). And it's the perfect build to take advantage of Bartuc's.

Max TS / DTail / Venom
17-Max (after +skills) SMaster
3 FBlast
4 DS
1 CoS / MB / CS / DFlight
1 BoS or Fade (you'll already have these as prereqs to Venom)

I'll usually put a couple extra points into BoS early because I'm just too used to the r/w speed. I always suggest using BoS over Fade for a DTailer since DTail is a pretty slow attack, so you need BoS for a decent fpa bp. You want 3 in FBlast for the extra shot to each DS, and the only reason I only suggest 4 into DS is because it brings your skill investment in the traps tree to a nice round 10 pts. Feel free to put any extra points you have into DS (I said I prefer to hack at stuff myself, but the CE of DS really is too good to pass up).

 

[CrimsonDuckling]

Well, Sapphar's lvl 44 now and dual-wielding Bartucs (found another one, heh). Currently easily taking out big groups in NM act II. Resists are lacking but besides the claws my equipment is less than perfect, besides a String of Ears. I did find sensei's gloves and an eye of etlich though, which gives me a total of +9 to martial arts.

I decided to go for the tiger strike and dragon tail setup. I'll max them soon. I use death sentry as a backup which lets me take out huge groups rather easily. Shadow master helps me greatly by casting mind blast and the occasional trap. I invested one point in Phoenix Strike but that may have been a mistake? No venom yet. Should I invest in that?

I put 80 in dex and doubt I have to add any more there. Everything will go in strength and vit now. Suggestions on how much to put in each?

Sofar I love the character. She's so damn fast! I badly need resists though.

Is it wise to socket my Bartuc's with something already or should I wait until I regularly clean hell zones for good jewels/facets/runes?

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Well, Sapphar's lvl 44 now and dual-wielding Bartucs (found another one, heh). Currently easily taking out big groups in NM act II. Resists are lacking but besides the claws my equipment is less than perfect, besides a String of Ears. I did find sensei's gloves and an eye of etlich though, which gives me a total of +9 to martial arts.

I decided to go for the tiger strike and dragon tail setup. I'll max them soon. I use death sentry as a backup which lets me take out huge groups rather easily. Shadow master helps me greatly by casting mind blast and the occasional trap. I invested one point in Phoenix Strike but that may have been a mistake? No venom yet. Should I invest in that?

I put 80 in dex and doubt I have to add any more there. Everything will go in strength and vit now. Suggestions on how much to put in each?

Sofar I love the character. She's so damn fast! I badly need resists though.

Is it wise to socket my Bartuc's with something already or should I wait until I regularly clean hell zones for good jewels/facets/runes?

I'd only suggest enough strength for your gear. Upped Goreriders have a 156 str req, so that's probably a good number to shoot for after +str gear. Everything else into Vit (assuming you want to stick c/c, if you want to switch to c/s you'd want more dex for better blocking).

The point in PS may not be such a waste if you decide to invest more heavily in it. If you max PS (and you'll probably want to max FoF), that can be a nice elemental compliment to you DTailer. Or you could just eat those 4 pts and go with a maxed Venom instead. You'll want to do one or the other, but the choice is really up to you. Since you've got the point in PS already, you could probably play around with it in the lower levels and see how you like it and then base your decision off of that.

And if you socket your 'tuc's now, you can always hell them later if you find something better.

 

[Mahric]

Glad to hear you're enjoying your assassin Duckling.

I recommend you stick with TS/DT and then work to maximise Death Sentry and then Shadow Master. I personally wouldn't bother with Phoenix or Venom on this build.

For me dual Bartucs is definately the way to go if you have the resists, otherwise you may want to consider a Jade Talon in your off hand. Your off hand claw can be socketed with a + resists jewel. For the primary claw, I use a BER rune for crushing blow, but these are very expensive ... not sure what to recommend as an alternative, maybe AMN for extra life leech or another resists jewel.

For Strength and Dexterity, I recommend 79 points in each and the rest into Vitality, but depending on the rest of your equipment, you may need to add a little more strength to get to 156 (for your boots) and more dexterity to get 105 for Jade Talon.

Keep working at it - assassins are great fun!

Mahric

 

[muzzz]

The point in PS may not be such a waste if you decide to invest more heavily in it. If you max PS (and you'll probably want to max FoF), that can be a nice elemental compliment to you DTailer. Or you could just eat those 4 pts and go with a maxed Venom instead. You'll want to do one or the other, but the choice is really up to you. Since you've got the point in PS already, you could probably play around with it in the lower levels and see how you like it and then base your decision off of that.

IIRC, there's some weirdness with the FoF/DTail combo, causing one of the two to "fail" if they're used correctly.

I'd personally go with the lightning synergy, unless you're pumping traps enough to get decent lightning damage there. In that case I'd go venom. A DTailer can usually get away without a specific anti-PI strategy, but it never hurts to have one.

 

[stephan]

IIRC, there's some weirdness with the FoF/DTail combo, causing one of the two to "fail" if they're used correctly.

What happens is that FoF converts physical damage to fire damage at 3% per level, but the splash damage of DTail is calculated from the amount of physical damage that is done. Basically this means that the more fire damage you do with FoF, the less fire damage you do with DTail, which is usually not a good trade off. It would be an interesting idea to combine this feature of FoF with TS to deal with PI's though.

 

[muzzz]

What happens is that FoF converts physical damage to fire damage at 3% per level, but the splash damage of DTail is calculated from the amount of physical damage that is done. Basically this means that the more fire damage you do with FoF, the less fire damage you do with DTail, which is usually not a good trade off. It would be an interesting idea to combine this feature of FoF with TS to deal with PI's though.

That's the "bug" I was talking about, thanks!

Doing some top-of-my-head math, with +10 skills (reasonable goal for a DTailer, I think) you'd be looking at 90% damage conversion. Even with low-end elite boots that'd be good for ~5k damage. Not the fastest way of dealing with PI's, but at first glance it seems at least as decent as venom, if not better.

 

[CrimsonDuckling]

I got her up to 52 now and just easily dispatched Diablo and the ancients on NM. Baal's next and except for Lister I don't expect much troubles.

My equipment options became a bit more extensive: I'm using Ravenfrost, Shaftstop, Bartuc's (which I want to upgrade to elite), Gorerider (ditto), an Ancient's Pledge pavise (until I get good enough resists to use my second Bartucs again), Eye of Etlich, Manald Heal and String of Ears. Nothing really gives me trouble right now.

For later levels I have a Tal's mask and Natalya's armor ready. A corpsemourn socketed with Ral for my merc, as well as an Obedience polearm. Right now I don't even use the merc since he dies all the time and I don't feel like wasting money on him.

Still not sure about Phoenix Strike or Venom. Being the perfectionist I am I may actually just start over and mule the equipment if I decide not to use phoenix strike at all. It seems that charging Phoenix Strike takes too much time which I'd rather spend on releasing TS-charged Dtails.

Question: Does Venom cancel out BoS?

Thanks!

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Venom does not cancel out BoS. Only BoS and Fade cancel each other.

And just so you know, the reason I suggested maxing FoF if you wanted to go the PS route was because you'd really only be using the first charge to rain meteors onto PIs. Charge once...Drop a meteor...Charge once...Drop a meteor...etc.

 

[CrimsonDuckling]

I got about 3 large charms that do 175 poison damage over 6 seconds now, and a small one that does about 60 over 4. Maybe if I go the PS route I can just hit and release for meteors against PI's. I have to max FoF for that though? This way I could do without venom, but still prevent monster heal with the poison charms?

My assassin just solo-killed NM Baal at level 53 with her 8k damage Dtails. =) Also, the hell forge quest gave me an Um.