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Need some help calculating deadly strike/ethereal

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Zroc, Feb 1, 2004.

  1. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

    Jul 18, 2003
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    Need some help calculating deadly strike/ethereal

    I've got a pickle here. A bud of mine found an Ethereal Death Cleaver. Now, I've been a fan of Death Cleaver anyway because of that fat 66% Deadly Strike, but the eth makes me drool at the I need to make sure I'm doing my math right before I make a BIG mistake (buying it and zod'ing it).

    From what I've been told, deadly strike doubles your TOTAL physical damage.

    Ok, the groundwork: For simplicity sake, let's just say I have a pally with 200 str, level 20 zeal with level 20 sacrifice for +336% damage bonus to zeal, and then I have level 20 fanaticism for +373%.

    The eth Death Cleaver is 253%, and does 127-374 damage. Again for simplicity, I'll just focus on top damage, 374.

    Ok...PLEASE check me on this:

    For weapon and strength, it's Weapon_Max_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100, so 374 * (200+100)/ pure normal attack damage is 1122.

    Now, I add my 336% from zeal to my 373% for fana and get an ED bonus of 709%. I multiply my weapon damage, 374, times 709%, and get 2651.

    So my total damage for a level 20 zeal level 20 fana attack is 1122 + 2651 = 3773.

    So is it that 3773 final total physical damage that gets doubled?? As in, I should just consider this to do 3773 + (3773*66%) = 6263 with that 66% Deadly Strike on the Death Cleaver?

    What I'm getting at here is, I think this eth Death Cleaver will do more damage than a perfect eth BotD zerker, if my math above is correct.

    As in...a perfect 400% eth BotD zerker does 532 top damage.
    This would mean 532 *200+100/ pure normal attack would be 1596.
    532 times 709% from fana and zeal is 3771. That 3771 plus 1596 = 5367.

    In a nutshell, if my math is right, that 253% eth Death Cleaver will effectively beat a 400% eth Botd zerker, 6263 to 5367.

    2nd question: this is where it gets screwy on me. Does Deadly Strike affect skills like vengence or bezerk in any way? Or will deadly strike only double the physical damage, and the damage from vengence or bezerk is completely unaffected? Because if that is the case, then eth BotD would still be better for skills like that (that are +magic or elemental rather than physical).

    Thanks SO much for you help...
  2. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

    Jun 21, 2003
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    I really can't follow your maths for your first question... try using this quote to make things easier for me and yourself:

    This was for 1.09, but I don't think it changed much. Only that the +1 base dmg in the weapon dmg formula has been removed AFAIK.

    Question 2:
    Vengeance uses weapon dmg with +min/max, only the physical part gets multiplied by +ed%/str.
    Berzerk changes the end result from the dmg formula to magical dmg.
  3. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

    Nov 10, 2003
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    Okie Dokie, I have done some in depth testing so prepare yourself. Most of what you have said is correct, so don't fear.

    First off, let's translate that 66% deadly strike into a fraction. The fraction is 2/3. That's saying that for every 3 hits you make, 2 will have double damage.

    Your max normal attack damage of 1122 is exactly correct.

    Your max skill enhanced damage of 3773 is exactly correct.

    You also calculated the average damage of death cleaver + DS correctly, but this way should work more easily when comparing it to other weapons.

    2 of 3 hits will be double damage, as seen above.
    So.... 2(3773*2)=15092
    1 of 3 hits will not be double damage.
    So.... 1(3773*1)=3773

    In these 3 hits a total of 18865 damage has been dealt.
    Averaging that out, it's about 6288 - not too far off your value.

    Let's do the same for a perfect 400%ED BoTD eth zerker axe.

    First off we need to take into account the +30 to strength we get from BoTD.

    Our max normal attack damage would be about 1755 instead of 1596.

    Our max skill enhanced damage would be about 5526 instead of 5367.

    Now to go on to damage per hits. No hits will be double damage.
    So.... 3(5367*1)=16101

    The average damage over these 3 hits has been 5367 max damage.

    3 hits with eth death cleaver leave us with 18865 total max damage.
    That's 6288 average max damage
    3 hits with BoTD Eth Zerker Axe leave us with 16101 total max damage.
    That's 5367 average max damage

    It still works out as it did below, your death cleaver physically overpowers BoTD.

    Just for fun - I'm going to complicate things with attack speed. Again, let's be basic and assume no other IAS than weapon IAS is present.

    Death Cleaver has 40ias. Coupled with level 20 fanaticism and zeal, we reach the 5 frame breakpoint, or 5 attacks per second.
    So.... 5(6288)=31440 average max damage per second

    BoTD has 60ias. Coupled with level 20 fanaticism and zeal, we reach the highest, 4 frame breakpoint, or 6.2 attacks per second.
    So.... 6.2(5367)=33275 average max damage per second

    When we calculate attacks per second we can see that at the basic level, BoTD beats out Death Cleaver. Now of course, 20 more ias from equipment is not a tough goal, so the Death Cleaver can be back on top with very little trouble

    RTB answered your 2nd question. Double strike will have no effect on elemental damaging skills or bonuses, so in the case of using such skills, BoTD is more useful.

    Phew, that was tough, hope everything is correct.....
  4. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

    Jul 18, 2003
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    Coolness...thanks guys. I was just checking to make sure my thinking/math was right about how critical strike works, and more or less ignoring the other stats for the moment.

    One thing, Shadow...the Death Cleaver also adds 10 strength as well, so it bumps up a little more.

    I did factor the speed the same way you did, and came to the same conclusion that it would be easy to get the extra 20 ias needed to hit 4 fps.

    Another factor is that the cleaver has -33% to target defense, the BotD -25% to target defense, so the cleaver would actually hit a little bit more (and that mod works on bosses).

    I still think BotD might be better, simply for the sheer equipment freedom that big dual leech provides, the extra AR, the extra damage to demons, and the prevent monster heal.

    I may still get that eth Death Cleaver, though, because it's so cool ;)
  5. Nathanjk

    Nathanjk IncGamers Member

    Oct 29, 2003
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    One think that you didn't consider is you can get deadly strike from other areas which will reduce effectiveness of the cleaver. If you have gul. Face and gore riders the difference between the two axes would only be about 50% in deadly strike.

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